Stalling after refill..elp!
Discussion
Hi all!
Went out for blast before weather turns cr*p up `ere, filled up and left ignition turned on whist refuelling (never done this previously...), restarts car, runs a little rough and promptly wants to start cutting out/revs very low. Managed to get home with difficulty.
Serviced recently, battery changed, all new ignition bits replaced in last 18 months or so, (amplifier not replaced) and checked stepper etc a while back (months). Oil pressure fine etc but dont htink it is anything to do with this anyway. Oh and if it is relevant Mr Beers two stage fan thingy fitted...nice device.
Really cheesed off after spending 2k on the thing....
Went out for blast before weather turns cr*p up `ere, filled up and left ignition turned on whist refuelling (never done this previously...), restarts car, runs a little rough and promptly wants to start cutting out/revs very low. Managed to get home with difficulty.
Serviced recently, battery changed, all new ignition bits replaced in last 18 months or so, (amplifier not replaced) and checked stepper etc a while back (months). Oil pressure fine etc but dont htink it is anything to do with this anyway. Oh and if it is relevant Mr Beers two stage fan thingy fitted...nice device.
Really cheesed off after spending 2k on the thing....
Edited by Sam Gamgee on Saturday 11th August 12:26
David Godfrey said:
how low was it before you filled up? If low its possible it's pulled some junk from the bottom of the tank into the fule filter??
Twas half full and use tesco 99 ron at mo....no probs before filling up. Tend to think its something to do with leaving ign on but would still appreciate some advice all....Ta Dave, btw for such an instant reply!
Dave (good name innit?)
Leaving the ignition on shouldn't cause any problem (other than giving some scrote the chance to nick your P&J while your back is turned) unless you have some other problem.
For example if the battery is tired then leaving the ignition and ECU etc all powered up will take a few amps from the battery which could make it difficult to start. It may be that the ignition being on is a coincidence. If the engine is hot then leaving it stopped for ten minutes gives enough time for the fuel in the rail to boil, which gives you a fuel rail and supply line full of froth/vapour instead of fresh fuel. This normally clears after a few minutes. The heat soak that occurs after stopping a hot engine can also provoke electrical problems under the bonnet - this is a very common time for component failures to occur. If the symptoms don't go away after it's all cooled down then get somebody to run an eye over the engine management system. Most of these problems are inexpensive to fix once you have identified them, and people who do this for a living should have no trouble identifying them.
For example if the battery is tired then leaving the ignition and ECU etc all powered up will take a few amps from the battery which could make it difficult to start. It may be that the ignition being on is a coincidence. If the engine is hot then leaving it stopped for ten minutes gives enough time for the fuel in the rail to boil, which gives you a fuel rail and supply line full of froth/vapour instead of fresh fuel. This normally clears after a few minutes. The heat soak that occurs after stopping a hot engine can also provoke electrical problems under the bonnet - this is a very common time for component failures to occur. If the symptoms don't go away after it's all cooled down then get somebody to run an eye over the engine management system. Most of these problems are inexpensive to fix once you have identified them, and people who do this for a living should have no trouble identifying them.
Edited by GreenV8S on Saturday 11th August 13:19
GreenV8S said:
Leaving the ignition on shouldn't cause any problem (other than giving some scrote the chance to nick your P&J while your back is turned) unless you have some other problem.
For example if the battery is tired then leaving the ignition and ECU etc all powered up will take a few amps from the battery which could make it difficult to start. It may be that the ignition being on is a coincidence. If the engine is hot then leaving it stopped for ten minutes gives enough time for the fuel in the rail to boil, which gives you a fuel rail and supply line full of froth/vapour instead of fresh fuel. This normally clears after a few minutes. The heat soak that occurs after stopping a hot engine can also provoke electrical problems under the bonnet - this is a very common time for component failures to occur. If the symptoms don't go away after it's all cooled down then get somebody to run an eye over the engine management system. Most of these problems are inexpensive to fix once you have identified them, and people who do this for a living should have no trouble identifying them.
As you had plenty of fuel, this sounds a much better reason For example if the battery is tired then leaving the ignition and ECU etc all powered up will take a few amps from the battery which could make it difficult to start. It may be that the ignition being on is a coincidence. If the engine is hot then leaving it stopped for ten minutes gives enough time for the fuel in the rail to boil, which gives you a fuel rail and supply line full of froth/vapour instead of fresh fuel. This normally clears after a few minutes. The heat soak that occurs after stopping a hot engine can also provoke electrical problems under the bonnet - this is a very common time for component failures to occur. If the symptoms don't go away after it's all cooled down then get somebody to run an eye over the engine management system. Most of these problems are inexpensive to fix once you have identified them, and people who do this for a living should have no trouble identifying them.
Edited by GreenV8S on Saturday 11th August 13:19
I don't know if this holds true for breakerless ignition, but it was true for the similar system with points.
Leaving the ignition on without the engine running could cause a continuous current through the coil primary windings, rather than the normal pulsed current. This only happened if the points were in a certain position.
The current overheats the coil causing damage to the windings and/or insulation.
High under bonnet temperature will accelerate the process, but it usually took a while.
Try another coil and if it cures the problem let me know. I can then assume its true for breakerless systems too.
Fester
Leaving the ignition on without the engine running could cause a continuous current through the coil primary windings, rather than the normal pulsed current. This only happened if the points were in a certain position.
The current overheats the coil causing damage to the windings and/or insulation.
High under bonnet temperature will accelerate the process, but it usually took a while.
Try another coil and if it cures the problem let me know. I can then assume its true for breakerless systems too.
Fester
Uncle Fester said:
I don't know if this holds true for breakerless ignition
It normally doesn't hold true - the amplifier module limits the coil charge time (dwell angle in old money) electronically. I've known a faulty ignition module to leave the coil charging with the engine stopped, but if it's working correctly it won't. (Hence my comment about 'other problems'.)Okay....I`m boggled now.
Checked afm connection, sparks/leads etc and gave stepper motor a clean (wasn`t too bad but bit sooty in the hole!) let it all cool down and went for a blast bout hour ago.
Engine managed to get really hot due to t/lights and so on but never once stalled and ran very well. Also my amazing dancing speedo seemed less of a problem in that it danced much less...however gets car back into garage, switches off ign and fans stay on for a couple of mins-full blast! Again something I dont remember ever occurring before.
(also, just to p*ss me off further, my n/s mirror "glass" decided to make a bid for freedom whist on m/way......and left a nice few chips....
)
Dave. And a not too happy one.
Checked afm connection, sparks/leads etc and gave stepper motor a clean (wasn`t too bad but bit sooty in the hole!) let it all cool down and went for a blast bout hour ago.
Engine managed to get really hot due to t/lights and so on but never once stalled and ran very well. Also my amazing dancing speedo seemed less of a problem in that it danced much less...however gets car back into garage, switches off ign and fans stay on for a couple of mins-full blast! Again something I dont remember ever occurring before.
(also, just to p*ss me off further, my n/s mirror "glass" decided to make a bid for freedom whist on m/way......and left a nice few chips....
)Dave. And a not too happy one.
Edited by Sam Gamgee on Saturday 11th August 20:29
The fan can be set to 3 settings from memory if you have the full monty kit and you have connected the feed to the starter motor. Maybe you have flicked a swich so to speak 
and turned on the overrun fans which go till shes cooled down ? That can drag the power out of the battery quite quickly if its a bit suspect maybe ?
and turned on the overrun fans which go till shes cooled down ? That can drag the power out of the battery quite quickly if its a bit suspect maybe ?farrowby said:
The fan can be set to 3 settings from memory if you have the full monty kit and you have connected the feed to the starter motor. Maybe you have flicked a swich so to speak and turned on the overrun fans which go till shes cooled down ? That can drag the power out of the battery quite quickly if its a bit suspect maybe ?
Could be right but last owner had it fitted so how can I tell? and turned on the overrun fans which go till shes cooled down ? That can drag the power out of the battery quite quickly if its a bit suspect maybe ?
Dave Beer! You around?Dave.
If its connected to the starter motor it will be fairly obvious, there will be a live feed (red i think) running into the taped up electrical bits ( technical term 
) of the mod, which should come from the started motor. The three switch settings are run until cooled down after power off full fans only, no fan run after power off, and run fans full and half until cool after power off (I think !! will have to dig out the paperwork sent with my mod to be sure) The switch is located in the electical taped up bits and from memory the middle setting on the 3 way switch is for no run once fans are off. But I cant see how this would be affecting your original problem of poor running.
) of the mod, which should come from the started motor. The three switch settings are run until cooled down after power off full fans only, no fan run after power off, and run fans full and half until cool after power off (I think !! will have to dig out the paperwork sent with my mod to be sure) The switch is located in the electical taped up bits and from memory the middle setting on the 3 way switch is for no run once fans are off. But I cant see how this would be affecting your original problem of poor running.Tim, thanks for info...cant see the switch..all that seems to be on mine is the two temp controls mounted at front by screenwash bottle. Have tried to trace wires but having to do this in my rather small garage as its peeing down on and off here, so will conduct a more thorough investigation week after next (bit of time off work) along with a couple of other little annoyances borne of late! Blimey, almost sounds like I know wot I`m doing!!!
Thanks all
Dave
Thanks all
Dave
Sam
I'd definitely go down the fuel canister route first, like Guillotine suggested, as I've had this happen on mine loads of times after fueling
Basically if I stop fueling as soon as the nozzle first cuts out, everythings fine, but if I try and squeeze a little more in then the car runs very rough for the first few miles - very hesitant, wanting to stall all the time, misfiring and kangooring down the road
It's embarrassing when you're stuck at the lights, trying to keep the revs up like some boyracer - you soon learn not to completely fill the tank again!
mack
I'd definitely go down the fuel canister route first, like Guillotine suggested, as I've had this happen on mine loads of times after fueling
Basically if I stop fueling as soon as the nozzle first cuts out, everythings fine, but if I try and squeeze a little more in then the car runs very rough for the first few miles - very hesitant, wanting to stall all the time, misfiring and kangooring down the road
It's embarrassing when you're stuck at the lights, trying to keep the revs up like some boyracer - you soon learn not to completely fill the tank again!
mack
mack said:
Sam
I'd definitely go down the fuel canister route first, like Guillotine suggested, as I've had this happen on mine loads of times after fueling
Basically if I stop fueling as soon as the nozzle first cuts out, everythings fine, but if I try and squeeze a little more in then the car runs very rough for the first few miles - very hesitant, wanting to stall all the time, misfiring and kangooring down the road
It's embarrassing when you're stuck at the lights, trying to keep the revs up like some boyracer - you soon learn not to completely fill the tank again!
mack
Mack, thanks, that is exactly how it was...like you said, embarrassing! Something else to sort, I guess. And, yes, think I did rather fill it! Doesnt xplain other issues but need to look into those also. Bang on with how it went...!I'd definitely go down the fuel canister route first, like Guillotine suggested, as I've had this happen on mine loads of times after fueling
Basically if I stop fueling as soon as the nozzle first cuts out, everythings fine, but if I try and squeeze a little more in then the car runs very rough for the first few miles - very hesitant, wanting to stall all the time, misfiring and kangooring down the road
It's embarrassing when you're stuck at the lights, trying to keep the revs up like some boyracer - you soon learn not to completely fill the tank again!
mack
Dave.
Edited by Sam Gamgee on Monday 13th August 20:06
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