Islamic Banking
Discussion
It’s actually a complete load of bollox. The concept has recently been understandably seized upon by the profit-hungry banking institutions – to exploit an entire and relatively untapped field of religious devotees who have been conditioned not to think for themselves and therefore can’t evaluate the product and concept objectively.
One clarification that is happily overlooked and doesn’t even come into the discussions – is that what is forbidden in the Qur’an is specifically usury. This is specifically the exploitation of one’s relationship as creditor, in order to oppress or subjugate another. The taking of interest was what facilitated this – and so the rather daft scholars of later years banned interest instead. There are of course smart scholars who have enough intelligence to understand that to make ‘interest’ the issue – is equivalent to banning money because you can buy guns and drugs with it. But heck – don’t let something small like that stop the stupid ones from writing the rule-books for us!
Any hoo…
So let’s allow this intellectual lacuna among the masses and move on…
You can’t deal in interest if you want to be a good Muslim but you’d still like to buy a house (for example) – a normal loan doesn’t work because they charge & you receive ‘interest’.
So along come the scholars (in the pay of the big banks) who happen to be of the opinion that for the bank to buy the house instead of you, then you rent it back off the bank - at extortionate rates, to cover their profits (nothing wrong with profits, see) – is okay under Islam – and not a penny of interest to be found anywhere!! Abracadabra!! Yes – for every scholar who sees this as legitimate – there is another who does not – but guess what – the banks don’t hire these ones!! Ha ha.
Even more interestingly – when a certain consumer body suggested that when marketing these products among the community (Bethnal Green, in this case) the advisers also show them ‘normal’ mortgage products (for the sake of making an informed decision) – this was batted harshly down and they were told that it would be an affront to their customers’ religion to even show them that these other products existed – tantamount to asking a Muslim in a restaurant if they’d like some spare ribs - obviously. The real reason? God forbid that their customers compare the charges and realise how extortionate they are, or that the extent of the disparity cause them to ask questions!!. The sorts of people who go for these products are financial services sheep – and will go where led by their religious superiors – in this case – the banks, by proxy. I hear hands rubbing together.
And so how ironic – because the very basis of the ruling about interest is wrong – i.e. do not exploit people when you are in a position to do so!’ – a situation has come about where a product that facilitates usury, is ‘Islamic’.
Amazing what happens when a whole group seems to been brought up not to think for themselves. It wasn’t always like that. And there are many of course not taken in by the dupe. Some however, do prefer to hedge their bets - taking the products – and if they’re being taken for a ride - then the sin is at least on the head of the institution. Fair do’s.
If any of the above has piqued your interest – please visit www.muslimrefusenik.com – to find out about someone who actually cares about Islam – and what has been done to it. For Muslim and non-Muslim alike.
One clarification that is happily overlooked and doesn’t even come into the discussions – is that what is forbidden in the Qur’an is specifically usury. This is specifically the exploitation of one’s relationship as creditor, in order to oppress or subjugate another. The taking of interest was what facilitated this – and so the rather daft scholars of later years banned interest instead. There are of course smart scholars who have enough intelligence to understand that to make ‘interest’ the issue – is equivalent to banning money because you can buy guns and drugs with it. But heck – don’t let something small like that stop the stupid ones from writing the rule-books for us!
Any hoo…
So let’s allow this intellectual lacuna among the masses and move on…
You can’t deal in interest if you want to be a good Muslim but you’d still like to buy a house (for example) – a normal loan doesn’t work because they charge & you receive ‘interest’.
So along come the scholars (in the pay of the big banks) who happen to be of the opinion that for the bank to buy the house instead of you, then you rent it back off the bank - at extortionate rates, to cover their profits (nothing wrong with profits, see) – is okay under Islam – and not a penny of interest to be found anywhere!! Abracadabra!! Yes – for every scholar who sees this as legitimate – there is another who does not – but guess what – the banks don’t hire these ones!! Ha ha.
Even more interestingly – when a certain consumer body suggested that when marketing these products among the community (Bethnal Green, in this case) the advisers also show them ‘normal’ mortgage products (for the sake of making an informed decision) – this was batted harshly down and they were told that it would be an affront to their customers’ religion to even show them that these other products existed – tantamount to asking a Muslim in a restaurant if they’d like some spare ribs - obviously. The real reason? God forbid that their customers compare the charges and realise how extortionate they are, or that the extent of the disparity cause them to ask questions!!. The sorts of people who go for these products are financial services sheep – and will go where led by their religious superiors – in this case – the banks, by proxy. I hear hands rubbing together.
And so how ironic – because the very basis of the ruling about interest is wrong – i.e. do not exploit people when you are in a position to do so!’ – a situation has come about where a product that facilitates usury, is ‘Islamic’.
Amazing what happens when a whole group seems to been brought up not to think for themselves. It wasn’t always like that. And there are many of course not taken in by the dupe. Some however, do prefer to hedge their bets - taking the products – and if they’re being taken for a ride - then the sin is at least on the head of the institution. Fair do’s.
If any of the above has piqued your interest – please visit www.muslimrefusenik.com – to find out about someone who actually cares about Islam – and what has been done to it. For Muslim and non-Muslim alike.
The huge fees are very true. I assume that they will come down via competition, but the whole idea just seems wrong. All you are doing is changing the name of the interest, not the existence of it, so quite why islamic "leaders" approve of it, I have no idea. They probably got a free NatWest pen, I suppose.
NorthernBoy said:
The huge fees are very true. I assume that they will come down via competition, but the whole idea just seems wrong. All you are doing is changing the name of the interest, not the existence of it, so quite why islamic "leaders" approve of it, I have no idea. They probably got a free NatWest pen, I suppose.
It wouldn't have been a Percy Piggy Bank now would it?Arif110 said:
It’s actually a complete load of bollox. The concept has recently been understandably seized upon by the profit-hungry banking institutions – to exploit an entire and relatively untapped field of religious devotees who have been conditioned not to think for themselves and therefore can’t evaluate the product and concept objectively.
One clarification that is happily overlooked and doesn’t even come into the discussions – is that what is forbidden in the Qur’an is specifically usury. This is specifically the exploitation of one’s relationship as creditor, in order to oppress or subjugate another. The taking of interest was what facilitated this – and so the rather daft scholars of later years banned interest instead. There are of course smart scholars who have enough intelligence to understand that to make ‘interest’ the issue – is equivalent to banning money because you can buy guns and drugs with it. But heck – don’t let something small like that stop the stupid ones from writing the rule-books for us!
Any hoo…
So let’s allow this intellectual lacuna among the masses and move on…
You can’t deal in interest if you want to be a good Muslim but you’d still like to buy a house (for example) – a normal loan doesn’t work because they charge & you receive ‘interest’.
So along come the scholars (in the pay of the big banks) who happen to be of the opinion that for the bank to buy the house instead of you, then you rent it back off the bank - at extortionate rates, to cover their profits (nothing wrong with profits, see) – is okay under Islam – and not a penny of interest to be found anywhere!! Abracadabra!! Yes – for every scholar who sees this as legitimate – there is another who does not – but guess what – the banks don’t hire these ones!! Ha ha.
Even more interestingly – when a certain consumer body suggested that when marketing these products among the community (Bethnal Green, in this case) the advisers also show them ‘normal’ mortgage products (for the sake of making an informed decision) – this was batted harshly down and they were told that it would be an affront to their customers’ religion to even show them that these other products existed – tantamount to asking a Muslim in a restaurant if they’d like some spare ribs - obviously. The real reason? God forbid that their customers compare the charges and realise how extortionate they are, or that the extent of the disparity cause them to ask questions!!. The sorts of people who go for these products are financial services sheep – and will go where led by their religious superiors – in this case – the banks, by proxy. I hear hands rubbing together.
And so how ironic – because the very basis of the ruling about interest is wrong – i.e. do not exploit people when you are in a position to do so!’ – a situation has come about where a product that facilitates usury, is ‘Islamic’.
Amazing what happens when a whole group seems to been brought up not to think for themselves. It wasn’t always like that. And there are many of course not taken in by the dupe. Some however, do prefer to hedge their bets - taking the products – and if they’re being taken for a ride - then the sin is at least on the head of the institution. Fair do’s.
If any of the above has piqued your interest – please visit www.muslimrefusenik.com – to find out about someone who actually cares about Islam – and what has been done to it. For Muslim and non-Muslim alike.
For a minute there I thought you were talking labour social policy, but clearly I was mistaken.One clarification that is happily overlooked and doesn’t even come into the discussions – is that what is forbidden in the Qur’an is specifically usury. This is specifically the exploitation of one’s relationship as creditor, in order to oppress or subjugate another. The taking of interest was what facilitated this – and so the rather daft scholars of later years banned interest instead. There are of course smart scholars who have enough intelligence to understand that to make ‘interest’ the issue – is equivalent to banning money because you can buy guns and drugs with it. But heck – don’t let something small like that stop the stupid ones from writing the rule-books for us!
Any hoo…
So let’s allow this intellectual lacuna among the masses and move on…
You can’t deal in interest if you want to be a good Muslim but you’d still like to buy a house (for example) – a normal loan doesn’t work because they charge & you receive ‘interest’.
So along come the scholars (in the pay of the big banks) who happen to be of the opinion that for the bank to buy the house instead of you, then you rent it back off the bank - at extortionate rates, to cover their profits (nothing wrong with profits, see) – is okay under Islam – and not a penny of interest to be found anywhere!! Abracadabra!! Yes – for every scholar who sees this as legitimate – there is another who does not – but guess what – the banks don’t hire these ones!! Ha ha.
Even more interestingly – when a certain consumer body suggested that when marketing these products among the community (Bethnal Green, in this case) the advisers also show them ‘normal’ mortgage products (for the sake of making an informed decision) – this was batted harshly down and they were told that it would be an affront to their customers’ religion to even show them that these other products existed – tantamount to asking a Muslim in a restaurant if they’d like some spare ribs - obviously. The real reason? God forbid that their customers compare the charges and realise how extortionate they are, or that the extent of the disparity cause them to ask questions!!. The sorts of people who go for these products are financial services sheep – and will go where led by their religious superiors – in this case – the banks, by proxy. I hear hands rubbing together.
And so how ironic – because the very basis of the ruling about interest is wrong – i.e. do not exploit people when you are in a position to do so!’ – a situation has come about where a product that facilitates usury, is ‘Islamic’.
Amazing what happens when a whole group seems to been brought up not to think for themselves. It wasn’t always like that. And there are many of course not taken in by the dupe. Some however, do prefer to hedge their bets - taking the products – and if they’re being taken for a ride - then the sin is at least on the head of the institution. Fair do’s.
If any of the above has piqued your interest – please visit www.muslimrefusenik.com – to find out about someone who actually cares about Islam – and what has been done to it. For Muslim and non-Muslim alike.
How is interest exploitative unless it is loan shark or credit card rates? Surely interest rates that reflect a market are not explitative. Now bank charges....is it un-islamic to pay bank charges?
I agree the banks would sell anything to line their greasy little pockets, but thats the fault of some Islamic 'scholars' for mis-interpretting their scriptures isn't it?
Imran-vx said:
How is interest exploitative unless it is loan shark or credit card rates? Surely interest rates that reflect a market are not explitative. Now bank charges....is it un-islamic to pay bank charges?
I agree the banks would sell anything to line their greasy little pockets, but thats the fault of some Islamic 'scholars' for mis-interpretting their scriptures isn't it?
The trouble is that as soon as you step away from financial clarity it becomes open season to push the charges as high as you can, which is exactly what happens with these products. You are wrapping the interest up in an obscuring manner that allows you to get away with charging much higher rates/fees.I agree the banks would sell anything to line their greasy little pockets, but thats the fault of some Islamic 'scholars' for mis-interpretting their scriptures isn't it?
Competition won't really help as we all know that banks collude to maintain high charges.
This is something that I feel quite strongly about and feel that when selling financial products 100% clarity and openness must always be there to protect the man in the street.
In my book these products should not under any circumstances be regulated by the FSA and should be banned by them. They opening exploit a weaker element of our community and the FSA's sole purpose is to prevent this. They are a disgrace.
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