Discussion
miro said:
What year and models have the power assisted breaks rather than the ones that feel like a block of wood ... Technical arent I 
Its probably that Im not used to the 'block of wood' type breaks
I think(?) you'll only find servo brakes in 111R / Exige and the new Elise S. All others are non-servo, non-ABS.Its probably that Im not used to the 'block of wood' type breaks
I was a little put off by the breaks on the 135 Sport I drove as they felt totaly alien to me. (I drive a corrola T-Sport at the moment) the gear change was also a bit ... odd. These two things are pushing me towards the 111R is the 111S likely to be any better in these areas than the 135 Sport?
Brakes, please. This poor use of language is really winding me up for some reason. 
But seriously there's no need to go for the later models just to get the ABS etc, the earlier cars are just fine. It takes some getting use to and they will seem heavy initially as may the steering for some but after a while you will realise that they are very effective and give great feel. Can't comment on the gears, may just be that elise.
p.s. be careful getting driving other cars afterwards, I have a tendency to put myself through the windscreen
But seriously there's no need to go for the later models just to get the ABS etc, the earlier cars are just fine. It takes some getting use to and they will seem heavy initially as may the steering for some but after a while you will realise that they are very effective and give great feel. Can't comment on the gears, may just be that elise.p.s. be careful getting driving other cars afterwards, I have a tendency to put myself through the windscreen
Try a few. I drove two S's, both '03s. On both the gear change was very "woolly" and the brakes needed more pressure than my 14 stone could apply using the steering wheel as leverage. This did not inspire confidence having just come from a string of modern BMW and Porshes with "power everything", slick gear changes and brakes that stopped you as soon as you looked at them.
In the end I plumped for an Exige predominently for the engine but also the servo assisted brakes (which I still had to spend a lot of time tweaking) plus the more precise gearbox.
But, brakes can be improved on the 111S with better pads and a proper fluid change and the gear shift can be improved with kits from various suppliers.
Make sure you drive a properly sorted car before discounting a model as an option. I'm sure there as many tweaked S's that are better then untweaked R's in terms of brakes etc.
In the end I plumped for an Exige predominently for the engine but also the servo assisted brakes (which I still had to spend a lot of time tweaking) plus the more precise gearbox.
But, brakes can be improved on the 111S with better pads and a proper fluid change and the gear shift can be improved with kits from various suppliers.
Make sure you drive a properly sorted car before discounting a model as an option. I'm sure there as many tweaked S's that are better then untweaked R's in terms of brakes etc.
I intend to drive the 111s as an alternative to the 111r so am prepared to see whats what. my driving history is uninspiring to say the least. only in the last few years have i got a job that can fund a nice car 
Punto 1.1> Punto 1.9 JTD> Toyota Corrola T-Sport..... 3 cars in 10 years all hatchbacks and all fwd and none exactly "fast" or "agile" and power everything. The steering on the elise was phenominal. awesome. and the 111R breathtaking despite my test drive being last tuesday in the torrential rain the breaks and gear change in the 135 Sport was just so different to what i am used to that i guess it felt wrong. perhaps a longer drive will change that. If not i guess i will get an R i am leaning away from the boxster. the lotus seems a much nicer car to own more of a special feeling
Punto 1.1> Punto 1.9 JTD> Toyota Corrola T-Sport..... 3 cars in 10 years all hatchbacks and all fwd and none exactly "fast" or "agile" and power everything. The steering on the elise was phenominal. awesome. and the 111R breathtaking despite my test drive being last tuesday in the torrential rain the breaks and gear change in the 135 Sport was just so different to what i am used to that i guess it felt wrong. perhaps a longer drive will change that. If not i guess i will get an R i am leaning away from the boxster. the lotus seems a much nicer car to own more of a special feeling Brakes take about 10 miles to get used to, then they are wonderful and full of feel - the light weight and stiff structure means you don't feel the weight transfer at first, but you will once your senses become tuned.
Yeah, the shift action is poor but the Toyota gearbox is only better in the same respect that a kick in the teeth is better than a kick in the groin - it's still nowhere near as good as a decent solid linkage setup but that's the price you pay with inexpensive mid-engined cars.
Yeah, the shift action is poor but the Toyota gearbox is only better in the same respect that a kick in the teeth is better than a kick in the groin - it's still nowhere near as good as a decent solid linkage setup but that's the price you pay with inexpensive mid-engined cars.
As Kevin notes, brake feel in a non-ABS Elise after you've come from a 'regular' car will seem strange at first, then you start driving it and realy how cosseted away from the action you've been in a Euro-box.
The above is one factor, another being the pad and disc combo that the car is running... well, pads mainly.
Some pads which work well on heavier cars (Greenstuff, for instance), are shockingly crap on an Elise. Switch to something like Mintex 1144s or Pagid RS42's however, and you'll be amazed at how good they are from cold. Pagid RS14's (a harder compound), feel a bit wooden and remote until they are hot, at which point then stop like nothing else I've ever been in. Literally they will stop the car so fast that you've got to be careful not to lock them up. And they simply never fade.
The above is one factor, another being the pad and disc combo that the car is running... well, pads mainly.
Some pads which work well on heavier cars (Greenstuff, for instance), are shockingly crap on an Elise. Switch to something like Mintex 1144s or Pagid RS42's however, and you'll be amazed at how good they are from cold. Pagid RS14's (a harder compound), feel a bit wooden and remote until they are hot, at which point then stop like nothing else I've ever been in. Literally they will stop the car so fast that you've got to be careful not to lock them up. And they simply never fade.
Have to agree with sworks. Changed mine to RS42's with braided hoses and could not believe the difference. Brakes now have feed back and stop the car very quickly.
As far as getting into a car with servo. I get back into my daily driver which has Brembro 4 pot and servo assisted and yes stop's very well but without the feed back.
You just have to adapt your driving style to the type of car your in !
As far as getting into a car with servo. I get back into my daily driver which has Brembro 4 pot and servo assisted and yes stop's very well but without the feed back.
You just have to adapt your driving style to the type of car your in !
miro said:
I am definately going to try again in an 03ish 111S somewhere in the high teens pricewise and think about whats been said .. thanks for the info ... cant beat advice from people who realy know .. so thanks guys
High teens pricewise? Why would you want to do that. You're in 111R territory at 18-19k.15-16k will see you in a decent S2 111S nowadays.
Just learn what a car does without ABS as opposed to with ABS -
Non-ABS - unknowing driver - panics - brakes - locks - skids - no directional control - stops eventually, in a hedge with old lady bonnet ornament.
Non-ABS - knowing driver - calm but firm braking to limit of adhesion or 'cadence' brakes - able to stop and have direction, stops in distance similar to ABS equiped car. Waves at old lady.
ABS - unknowing driver - panics - brakes - ABS thuds - has directional control but is transfixed and doesn't move steering wheel - stops just short of hedge but with old lady bonnet ornament.
ABS - knowing driver - brakes to ABS - uses steering to steer around old lady while waving - stops in front of hedge.
(more or less)
Non-ABS - unknowing driver - panics - brakes - locks - skids - no directional control - stops eventually, in a hedge with old lady bonnet ornament.
Non-ABS - knowing driver - calm but firm braking to limit of adhesion or 'cadence' brakes - able to stop and have direction, stops in distance similar to ABS equiped car. Waves at old lady.
ABS - unknowing driver - panics - brakes - ABS thuds - has directional control but is transfixed and doesn't move steering wheel - stops just short of hedge but with old lady bonnet ornament.
ABS - knowing driver - brakes to ABS - uses steering to steer around old lady while waving - stops in front of hedge.
(more or less)
Edited by andy_s on Saturday 18th August 18:08
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