Question for Lieber Von! Drop Kerb Again!
Discussion
Sorry it a long post!
I cannot find the long thread in archives about the dropped kerb question.
I have query from sister-in-law who happen to live near a WPC. She has problems with neighbours opposite her home who insist on parking car outside the drop kerb entrance to her home. (When they park on own side - they park long way out from the kerb as well
) She say they move in recently & are very inconsiderate towards her in this respect. She ask them to move car politely - but have to wait 40 minutes for this to happen. She also got a two fingered salute apparently when in her driveway waving her keys at their car which was parked across the drop kerb with engine running. Driver chatting to his pal. Passenger apparently gave her the rudey gesture.
She ask the WPC how she stand in law over this for complaint. She get told that "car ist taxed und insured & they can leave it in middle of road if they want to.. & that perfectly legal for them to park across her driveway if they so wish to" (In-law tell me that the WPC's own pals have done this to her in the past. She did complain about that too - but they did move the cars away when requested all the same 
)
I ask my own BiB cousins about this too - but so as to have more objective opinion as this family affected - would like to know from lieben von what he think und what the law say per his interpretation of it given the WPC's (not traffic ) opinion.
I am reasonably sure that you cannot "park" a car in middle of road because it "taxed & insured" (what the WPC allegedly say to her).
I think that could be classed as "abandoned car". Unless broken down - I think real traffic police would take dimmest view of driver who do that. (She not Traf Pol. Sis-in-law say she come across to her as arrogant but without real knowledge such as displayed by BiB on this und Paulie's site. (In Law lurk. I know she lurk from this comment. Maybe I pre-empt her own post if she also "active"
)
When I say "sure" above there .. I may be being subjective as my own common sense tell me to park my car so as not to be nuisance to other road user. (I try always to consider someone else. It not always reciprocated of course - but two wrong never do make a right)
I cannot quite recall what the consensus was over the parking across dropped kerb was. I know the thread ran into umpteen pages at the time though I think one of the BiBs did post up the letter of law on this. I think I vaguely recall .. but I would like one of you to refresh my memory before I tell the in-law what I think she should do here. I am inclined to think the WPC give incorrect advice over the drop kerb from the previous long thread though. I really cannot see how parking in such a way as to deny someone exit und access to own home can be justified let alone "legal" per this police officer. I know lieber von will be able to quote me the legislation I need to tell my sister-in-law though. She say the WPC opinionated but does not seem to know what she should in her opinion. She say the WPC's pals have parked across her driveway as well in the past und present. She say they do move them on request - but she think they should not do so at all. She did say she tested them by doing this to them "out of uncharacteristic bitchiness" (She Mad Doc's sister - being "bitchy or catty" does not come naturally to her to be honest. 
) She say "all hell let loose as the WPC raged at her at the time. She left the car there for around 5 minutes whilst changing cars around at the time. She said she parked on their drop kerb because the idiots opposite had parked way out from kerb across so she chose the only safe place to park one car, given workmen parking at the WPC's home doing some work outside their home whilst on hols. (I would not be so trusting ) The other car? She take up to farmer with whom she have "arrangement for her toy boys of vintage classic" whilst her husband returned the other car back to driveway.(She the one with the Z-car-like Zephyr :lol: It truly beautiful 
) She say she apologise profusely at time. She thought they on holiday at time. (They returned half hour before she parked up there for all of five minute apparently Her husband placed car back into their own drive before she returned with the car they intended to go out in.)
So basically want to know -
1. can one legally park across a dropped kerb driveway to someone's house?
2. Can one leave a car out in roadway if taxed und insured - even on a suburban residential?
I think answer should be
all the same. I think there ist provision under RTA 1988 - but cannot quite recall
I cannot find the long thread in archives about the dropped kerb question.
I have query from sister-in-law who happen to live near a WPC. She has problems with neighbours opposite her home who insist on parking car outside the drop kerb entrance to her home. (When they park on own side - they park long way out from the kerb as well
) She say they move in recently & are very inconsiderate towards her in this respect. She ask them to move car politely - but have to wait 40 minutes for this to happen. She also got a two fingered salute apparently when in her driveway waving her keys at their car which was parked across the drop kerb with engine running. Driver chatting to his pal. Passenger apparently gave her the rudey gesture. She ask the WPC how she stand in law over this for complaint. She get told that "car ist taxed und insured & they can leave it in middle of road if they want to.. & that perfectly legal for them to park across her driveway if they so wish to"
(In-law tell me that the WPC's own pals have done this to her in the past. She did complain about that too - but they did move the cars away when requested all the same ) I ask my own BiB cousins about this too - but so as to have more objective opinion as this family affected
- would like to know from lieben von what he think und what the law say per his interpretation of it given the WPC's (not traffic ) opinion. I am reasonably sure that you cannot "park" a car in middle of road because it "taxed & insured" (what the WPC allegedly say to her).
I think that could be classed as "abandoned car". Unless broken down - I think real traffic police would take dimmest view of driver who do that. (She not Traf Pol. Sis-in-law say she come across to her as arrogant but without real knowledge such as displayed by BiB on this und Paulie's site. (In Law lurk. I know she lurk from this comment. Maybe I pre-empt her own post if she also "active"
) When I say "sure" above there .. I may be being subjective as my own common sense tell me to park my car so as not to be nuisance to other road user. (I try always to consider someone else. It not always reciprocated of course - but two wrong never do make a right
) I cannot quite recall what the consensus was over the parking across dropped kerb was. I know the thread ran into umpteen pages at the time though
I think one of the BiBs did post up the letter of law on this. I think I vaguely recall .. but I would like one of you to refresh my memory before I tell the in-law what I think she should do here. I am inclined to think the WPC give incorrect advice over the drop kerb from the previous long thread though. I really cannot see how parking in such a way as to deny someone exit und access to own home can be justified let alone "legal" per this police officer. I know lieber von will be able to quote me the legislation I need to tell my sister-in-law though. She say the WPC opinionated but does not seem to know what she should in her opinion. She say the WPC's pals have parked across her driveway as well in the past und present. She say they do move them on request - but she think they should not do so at all. She did say she tested them by doing this to them "out of uncharacteristic bitchiness" (She Mad Doc's sister - being "bitchy or catty" does not come naturally to her to be honest. ) She say "all hell let loose as the WPC raged at her at the time. She left the car there for around 5 minutes whilst changing cars around at the time. She said she parked on their drop kerb because the idiots opposite had parked way out from kerb across so she chose the only safe place to park one car, given workmen parking at the WPC's home doing some work outside their home whilst on hols. (I would not be so trusting ) The other car? She take up to farmer with whom she have "arrangement for her toy boys of vintage classic" whilst her husband returned the other car back to driveway.(She the one with the Z-car-like Zephyr :lol: It truly beautiful ) She say she apologise profusely at time. She thought they on holiday at time. (They returned half hour before she parked up there for all of five minute apparently Her husband placed car back into their own drive before she returned with the car they intended to go out in.) So basically want to know -
1. can one legally park across a dropped kerb driveway to someone's house?
2. Can one leave a car out in roadway if taxed und insured - even on a suburban residential?
I think answer should be
all the same. I think there ist provision under RTA 1988 - but cannot quite recall 
vonhosen said:
Keeping it short
It is an offence of unnecessary obstruction to block a dropped kerb & subsequently prevent someone from getting off their property onto the road.
danke It is an offence of unnecessary obstruction to block a dropped kerb & subsequently prevent someone from getting off their property onto the road.
I thought so. Can this be prosecuted? Sister-in-law really seriously angry as she always considerate but seem not to get anything reciprocal consideration here. She now thinking of waging war as she also has seriously disabled under her wing. He lose limb as result of meningitis. She say she has Blue Badge. Council say they look at road with view to yellow line along roadway opposite these houses. WPC say she'd oppose this - but it not outside her house but opposite her driveway - which would make it easier for her to reverse out of her drive too.
What about the WPC who say you can leave car in middle of roadway if taxed/insured? I sure that not right either.
if they park opersit the droped curb and there no parking retritions on the steet its perfectly legal for them to park there.
if on the other hand there dirctly parking across the droped curb on thesideof the droped curb. the best bet is to hassel thelocalcounciletoput markingins there.
if you are parked Its an offence as they are blocking you from the highway but if i remmember right and they park while you are out it not.
but von should beable to confirm this.
Edited by outlaw... on Sunday 19th August 20:07
WildCat said:
vonhosen said:
Keeping it short
It is an offence of unnecessary obstruction to block a dropped kerb & subsequently prevent someone from getting off their property onto the road.
danke It is an offence of unnecessary obstruction to block a dropped kerb & subsequently prevent someone from getting off their property onto the road.
I thought so. Can this be prosecuted? Sister-in-law really seriously angry as she always considerate but seem not to get anything reciprocal consideration here. She now thinking of waging war as she also has seriously disabled under her wing. He lose limb as result of meningitis. She say she has Blue Badge. Council say they look at road with view to yellow line along roadway opposite these houses. WPC say she'd oppose this - but it not outside her house but opposite her driveway - which would make it easier for her to reverse out of her drive too.
What about the WPC who say you can leave car in middle of roadway if taxed/insured? I sure that not right either.
one way technically of getting you own back would be to sue for you lossesevery time they block you ie alternative transport cost at the count court
ie ask em to move if they dont call a black cab and send them the bill
and strictly speaking she should not be reversing out of ner drive she should revers into it
Edited by outlaw... on Sunday 19th August 20:16
ive heard its an offence to block you in your drive, but not to block your drive if your car isnt there. something to do with a clear exit in an emergancy i believe.
may i suggest a 4x4 with bullbars & 'nudge' the dumped car out the way? it must be dumped no-one with a brain would park there after all.
of course that doesnt make it big & clever but in my eyes after asking them its fair. worked for me a few years ago as well
may i suggest a 4x4 with bullbars & 'nudge' the dumped car out the way? it must be dumped no-one with a brain would park there after all.
of course that doesnt make it big & clever but in my eyes after asking them its fair. worked for me a few years ago as well
WildCat said:
vonhosen said:
Keeping it short
It is an offence of unnecessary obstruction to block a dropped kerb & subsequently prevent someone from getting off their property onto the road.
danke It is an offence of unnecessary obstruction to block a dropped kerb & subsequently prevent someone from getting off their property onto the road.
I thought so. Can this be prosecuted? Sister-in-law really seriously angry as she always considerate but seem not to get anything reciprocal consideration here. She now thinking of waging war as she also has seriously disabled under her wing. He lose limb as result of meningitis. She say she has Blue Badge. Council say they look at road with view to yellow line along roadway opposite these houses. WPC say she'd oppose this - but it not outside her house but opposite her driveway - which would make it easier for her to reverse out of her drive too.
What about the WPC who say you can leave car in middle of roadway if taxed/insured? I sure that not right either.
If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage of the highway, he commits an offence.
Regulation 103, Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
No person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer shall cause or permit the vehicle to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
vonhosen said:
WildCat said:
vonhosen said:
Keeping it short
It is an offence of unnecessary obstruction to block a dropped kerb & subsequently prevent someone from getting off their property onto the road.
danke It is an offence of unnecessary obstruction to block a dropped kerb & subsequently prevent someone from getting off their property onto the road.
I thought so. Can this be prosecuted? Sister-in-law really seriously angry as she always considerate but seem not to get anything reciprocal consideration here. She now thinking of waging war as she also has seriously disabled under her wing. He lose limb as result of meningitis. She say she has Blue Badge. Council say they look at road with view to yellow line along roadway opposite these houses. WPC say she'd oppose this - but it not outside her house but opposite her driveway - which would make it easier for her to reverse out of her drive too.
What about the WPC who say you can leave car in middle of roadway if taxed/insured? I sure that not right either.
If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage of the highway, he commits an offence.
Regulation 103, Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
No person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer shall cause or permit the vehicle to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
Thank you. I tell her this. She was most upset over the constant parking across her dropped kerb driveway under her circumstances. She was unable to go to shops for much needed groceries as result of this. (She end up having to take taxi as this big weekend shop for her apparently) Another time - she unable to get her son to hospital appointment as they blocked her way. She so seriously angry und more so when the WPC now tell her she apparently no right to complain about being blocked into her home as taxed/insured cars can "park wherever they like even in middle of road" She did point out that her cars are taxed/insured likewise
- but that did not give her a right to be inconsiderate to other people. (This same WPC apparently stormed at her last year when she und husband change over cars. WPC had parked her car immediately in front of their (in-law's house. Residents opposite had parked car immediately opposite their driveway this time. In-laws reverse one car around the WPC's car und park up behind it in front of their other neighbour's property. Ju-Ju (sister-in-law) plonk the car they intend to take out (this the one adapted to cope with lifting in their now teenage son in his wheelchair) in only available space on the kerb-side verged area in front of the WPC's house whilst she waited for her husband to take his car back into drive with her then placing the other car in their outer drive behind it. WPC apparently stormed out her house complaining about this. The change over take less than five minutes. It not like they leave car for hours.
It why my in-law really surprised by her now claiming if car taxed/insured it can be left anywhere on the road - in middle of road or blocking their driveway. It seem to her that she was saying everyone can park their car wherever they like - apart from her. She really upset about all that now. We tell her she now unlucky to have chavs for neighbours
She thinking of moving but would have to disclose to buyer what the neighbours are like. She think it would put off a saint. (These rather nowty neighbours, including the WPC had moved in (so I understand) in last couple of years. They never had any problems until then ) She cope admirably with that child (she has two children. He fine lad though.
It was very rough luck on them when he became ill as baby.) Draw your attention Wildy to the following in addition to the obstruction aspect mentioned by VH. Claws drawn aint going to solve this problem, diplomacy has to be the Order of the day. Didn't Winnie say Jaw,jaw better than war,war. Who can resist a purring cat?
Traffic Management Act 2004
Section 86 Prohibition of parking at dropped footways etc.
(1) In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway adjacent to a footway, cycle track or verge where-
(a) the footway, cycle track or verge has been lowered to meet the level of the carriageway for the purpose of-
(i) assisting pedestrians crossing the carriageway,
(ii) assisting cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, or
(iii) assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the footway, cycle track or verge; or
(b) the carriageway has, for a purpose within paragraph (a)(i) to (iii), been raised to meet the level of the footway, cycle track or verge.
This is subject to the following exceptions.
(2) The first exception is where the vehicle is parked wholly within a designated parking place or any other part of the carriageway where parking is specifically authorised.
The second exception is where the vehicle is parked outside residential premises by or with the consent (but not consent given for reward) of the occupier of the premises.
This exception does not apply in the case of a shared driveway.
There are others i.e. Police, Fire etc and for Building works, Delivery vehicles etc.
The prohibition in this section is enforceable as if imposed-
(a) in Greater London, by an order under section 6 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27),
(b) elsewhere in England and Wales, by an order under section 1 of that Act.
You would have to get the LA to declaree a special enforcement area (it might have been done in London but in the NW ?(See Schedule 10 of the Act))...no doubt not an easy thing to do?
.........and that bit on painting Keep Clear on the road.......sure way to get the collar stretched......offence.
dvd
Traffic Management Act 2004
Section 86 Prohibition of parking at dropped footways etc.
(1) In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway adjacent to a footway, cycle track or verge where-
(a) the footway, cycle track or verge has been lowered to meet the level of the carriageway for the purpose of-
(i) assisting pedestrians crossing the carriageway,
(ii) assisting cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, or
(iii) assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the footway, cycle track or verge; or
(b) the carriageway has, for a purpose within paragraph (a)(i) to (iii), been raised to meet the level of the footway, cycle track or verge.
This is subject to the following exceptions.
(2) The first exception is where the vehicle is parked wholly within a designated parking place or any other part of the carriageway where parking is specifically authorised.
The second exception is where the vehicle is parked outside residential premises by or with the consent (but not consent given for reward) of the occupier of the premises.
This exception does not apply in the case of a shared driveway.
There are others i.e. Police, Fire etc and for Building works, Delivery vehicles etc.
The prohibition in this section is enforceable as if imposed-
(a) in Greater London, by an order under section 6 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27),
(b) elsewhere in England and Wales, by an order under section 1 of that Act.
You would have to get the LA to declaree a special enforcement area (it might have been done in London but in the NW ?(See Schedule 10 of the Act))...no doubt not an easy thing to do?
.........and that bit on painting Keep Clear on the road.......sure way to get the collar stretched......offence.
dvd
Dwight
My sister-in-law & husband lot happier with this info. It mean they can at least try to negotiate with their neighbour from hell - a bit better. They very steady people. They not ever like to complain. They not really wild felines That has been part of the problem build-up for them I think.
My sister-in-law & husband lot happier with this info. It mean they can at least try to negotiate with their neighbour from hell - a bit better. They very steady people. They not ever like to complain. They not really wild felines
That has been part of the problem build-up for them I think.Wildcat, tell sis-in-law to do what I did when persistent arsewipe kept parking over my drive when asked not to.
Put one trolley jack under rear axle, raise trolley jack so rear wheels leave ground, drag arsewipe's car to middle of road, lower trolley jack and go home.
Put one trolley jack under rear axle, raise trolley jack so rear wheels leave ground, drag arsewipe's car to middle of road, lower trolley jack and go home.
Edited by falcemob on Monday 20th August 20:16
nigel_bytes said:
Does anyone know if you can paint your driveway with a big notice 'KEEP CLEAR'
You can paint anything within reason on your driveway (assuming it's your private property) unless specific by-laws apply or you are in a Conservation Area, or similar. You can't paint it on the public highway though - Streaky
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