Engine swaps - ford x-flow

[Chris71]

Hi,

I'm thinking about swapping a standard 1300GT crossflow for a 1700 with twin 40 DCOE's, can anyone give me an idea what's involved in doing this?

Secondly - just had a play around with the build price calculator on the Vulcan websiote and the prices for turn key units (once you've added ancillaries) made my eyes bulge - £2900 +vat for a 135hp x-flow (stage 1 head, twin carbs, linkages etc)

What else could I get for the price? For that matter is it worth modifying a standard 1300GT engine?

Chris.

[Snake the Sniper]

1800 zetec, bike carbs and cams if you wish will see you at 150 bhp all day long. And for less than a grand. You may need a different bell housing/gearbox and there fore prop, but a type 9 is only £50-100, and a prop £150-200, so doesn't add a huge amount and will give you 5 speeds. A new exhaust (manifold) may be a bit more, but still way less than £3k.
Hell, I even know of a bloke who did a bike engine (ZX6R) for less than half the price of that engine!

[tribbles]

If it's a 7-style car, you may also need to cut holes in the side for the carbs to fit, as I had to do with mine:

[Sam_68]

Basically, unbolt the 1300 and throw it in the skip and bolt the 1700 in its place. You might want to swap to an electric fuel pump, if the car isn't already fitted with one, but other than that it's about as straightforward as engine swaps get. I'd recommend an oil cooler, uprated clutch and baffled sump too, though, if you haven't already priced for these.

... but as you've discovered, Crossflows are becoming pricey to tune these days. Moral is, don't buy a car with a 1300 Crossflow and single carb, buy one that someone else has already fitted a more suitable engine to. Or - if all else fails - keep a look out on e-bay for a modded crossflow engine that someone has swapped out in favour of a BEC or Zetec conversion.

For the price you'd pay Vulcan or Burton for a modded Crossflow these days, the world is the mollusc of your choice. Zetec? BEC? Toyota 20V? Take your pick...

For another grand, I'll sell you the 155bhp Crossflow in my Sylva and throw in the rest of the car for free!

[Sam_68]

...just noticed on the chuckable handling thread that you are talking about using the car for commuting, too?

If it is an everyday driver, bear in mind that a tuned Crossflow on twin Webers will be luck to see 23mpg in daily use.

I'd rule out a bike engine on this basis, too, unless you are especially rabid and/or enjoy monthly clutch/gearbox rebuilds.

[Chris71]

Erm, it depends what I get really. I need something with some space as well, so whatever I bought there would always be a second car for lugging mountain bikes around and long motorway trips. If I got something quite extreme, I suspect the turbulence and noise would get to me on long trips before 23mpg did (that's about the same as my current V6 saloon on an enthusiastic day!). So the answer is maybe, if something civlisised like a K3 took my fancy or I upped the budget to Stylus/Fury levels then I'd look to use it most days, but as it's always going to be a second car I'm quite open to something a bit more extreme, in which case it would mostly be for evenings and weekends!

Sorry, bit long winded there, back on topic......

A quick call to my dad who is quite knowledgable in such things (it's his workshop I'd use if I did it) revealed he has a 2 litre Zetec (completely new I think), a lightly used 1600 crossflow with some head work and the two spare CVHs I'd forgotten about for my Quantum sat in the garage

So, this opens up a copuple of new dilemas. Firstly, how much more difficult is the 1300 crossflow to zetec conversion? Secondly - would I want to do that? Most people seem to reckon the Leader chassis is only good for about 150hp tops and the Zetec on twin carbs would be 165 or so.

This is a car I'm looking at buying, so I think the first thing is to see if it's entertaining with the current (65/70hp? ) crossflow. If it's nippy enough for me to use for a few months as-is without getting bored and everything else seems good, I might pick it up with the view to pinching one of my dad's engines in the near future.

[stevebubs]

Zetec into Leader (and Star) has been done before with good results.

Owners can be found lurking at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Sylva-Chat?hl=en-...

[Chris71]

stevebubs said:

Zetec into Leader (and Star) has been done before with good results.

Owners can be found lurking at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Sylva-Chat?hl=en-...

Superb! Thanks, been looking for a Sylva forum for ages.

edit: Having difficulty getting on there, is it definitely current?

Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 22 August 16:29

[X-man]

Hi Chris, here is another forum that maybe of interest or maybe not!

http://www.clubstylus.be/

Edited by X-man on Wednesday 22 August 16:30

[grahambell]

Chris71 said:

Hi,

I'm thinking about swapping a standard 1300GT crossflow for a 1700 with twin 40 DCOE's, can anyone give me an idea what's involved in doing this?

Straight swap basically, but don't bother fitting a tuned crossflow to a 1300 gearbox (integral bellhousing type) as it won't take the power for long.

[stevebubs]

Chris71 said:

stevebubs said:

Zetec into Leader (and Star) has been done before with good results.

Owners can be found lurking at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Sylva-Chat?hl=en-...

Superb! Thanks, been looking for a Sylva forum for ages.

edit: Having difficulty getting on there, is it definitely current?

Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 22 August 16:29

Definitely current, just membership is moderated to remove spammers. Membership should now be approved.

[stevebubs]

FWIW, I did a crossflow - blacktop zetec upgrade in my Fury about 2.5 years ago. Swapped the 4 speed box for a type 9 at the same time.

Totally transformed the car, and accomplished for under half what you're looking at paying...

Some pics at http://gallery.cantcatchme.net/index.php?cat=9

[stevebubs]

Whilst we're on the subject, The now pretty much defunct SSR (Sylva Sportscar Register) will shortly be superceded by the JPSC (Jeremy Phillips Sportscar Club)

Currently in "startup mode" but details can be found at http://www.jpsc.org.uk

[Chris71]

X-man said:

Hi Chris, here is another forum that maybe of interest or maybe not!

http://www.clubstylus.be/

Edited by X-man on Wednesday 22 August 16:30

Cheers. Applied for that one too.

I'm vaguely involved in a Stylus build too.

[X-man]

Chris71 said:

X-man said:

Hi Chris, here is another forum that maybe of interest or maybe not!

http://www.clubstylus.be/

Edited by X-man on Wednesday 22 August 16:30

Cheers. Applied for that one too.

I'm vaguely involved in a Stylus build too.

Who's is thats then? is it a Classic or an RT?

[Chris71]

The stylus belongs to my father. He's been building it for..... oh, about 8 years! He doesn't have a huge ammount of time on his hands and is a bit of a perfectionist - about 3 years of that was spent on the doors! Car is now about ready to run, he was installing the engine and gearbox last time I was down.

Graham (and others!) you're comment brings me onto the next question - what do I do about the gearbox

Perhaps the best option is to build up a zetec with a type 9 gearbox off eBay as an almost complete unit on the bench, then drop the whole lot straight in! Is this difficult? Will I then find the back axle isn't up to the job or anything? I think it's a chevette one in the Leader rather than the usual Mk2 Escort one, so not sure how strong it is. Assuming it is a 1300 gearbox, how similar is this to the type 9 in terms of size? Would the gear stick still protrude at the same point and the prob shaft be re-usable

[stevebubs]

Chris71 said:

(snip)

Graham (and others!) you're comment brings me onto the next question - what do I do about the gearbox

Perhaps the best option is to build up a zetec with a type 9 gearbox off eBay as an almost complete unit on the bench, then drop the whole lot straight in! Is this difficult? Will I then find the back axle isn't up to the job or anything? I think it's a chevette one in the Leader rather than the usual Mk2 Escort one, so not sure how strong it is. Assuming it is a 1300 gearbox, how similar is this to the type 9 in terms of size? Would the gear stick still protrude at the same point and the prob shaft be re-usable

Can't say on the rear axle, but you'll need a new prop and the gearshift will be a little closer to you.

Not an overly hard job - I managed to do it....

Edited by stevebubs on Wednesday 22 August 17:59

[Roman]

The Chevette axle is rated to around 100bhp. I'm running a 110bhp Pinto with no problems and know of someone else who had a 120-130bhp Pinto in a Chevette which apparently was fine.

HSR axles are very rare and costly so people building HSR replicas with powerful engines tend to upgrade to a Manta type A axle. (early '70s mk 1 Manta).

This is the info I was given when I queried how much power a Chevette axle would take on www.chevettes.com

[Chris71]

That's a bit worrying. I thought people were running 150hp zetecs in Leaders, does that mean they needed the HSR axle?

[Roman]

I think you would probably be OK to be honest so long as you're not drag racing every weekend - bearing in mind the low weight of the car and the fact that you are unlikely to be covering 12k+ p.a.

I doubt any Leaders are using HSR axles as they are very very hard to get hold of and very expensive which is why some people adapt the Manta a axle - try a search on the chevettes website (you will probably see my thread on the same subject) or even post the query on their forum - they are a friendly and helpful bunch.