Drink driving when not driving - Advice needed.

[paulsm]

I'm going to the Reading Festival at the weekend and I intend to sleep in the car. At last weeks V Festival I hear that a number of people were charged with being over the drink limit while in charge of a vehicle. They weren't driving, they were just sat in it or sleeping in it.

Is there anything I can do to ensure I'm not charged with drink driving? I have absolutely no intention of driving after drinking. There are 2 car loads of us going, would swopping keys be enough, ie I cant drive coz my mate in another car has my keys? or putting a steering lock on and giving mate key to that?

Advice from BiB's or someone with similar experience would be very welcome.

[Fidgits]

pretty much, if your inside the car with the keys - i think you can be considered 'in charge of the vehicle'.

Why not just buy a tent?

[paulsm]

Fidgits said:

Why not just buy a tent?

Part of the site is flooded. people use other tents as toilets. Tents get wrecked by drunk people. I'm too soft

[Munter]

If your going with mates intending similar then swap keys before going to sleep. Therefore you dont have the keys to the car.

Oh and sleeping in cars is colder and more uncomfortable than sleeping in a tent....

On another front how do camper vans get away with it?... Could it be those arrested had the key in the ignition and were in the front seat?

[vonhosen]

& doing handbrake turns.

[paulsm]

[quote=Munter

On another front how do camper vans get away with it?... Could it be those arrested had the key in the ignition and were in the front seat?
[/quote]

Don't know about campers, i can only imagine the same applies to them.

I can understand it if key is in ignition, but this apparently wasn't the case.

Seems i can be totally off my face with keys in hand stood next to the car and i'm fine, but if i threw keys in glove box and crawled into the boot i'd be charged. Odd.

[vonhosen]

paulsm said:

Seems i can be totally off my face with keys in hand stood next to the car and i'm fine, but if i threw keys in glove box and crawled into the boot i'd be charged. Odd.

No true.

[paulsm]

any police officers care to comment?

[Cooperman]

I've often wondered what the situation would be if you had a Winnebago or similar, parked on a campsite and had an evening meal with some drink. Then you might need to run the engine to fully charge-up the batteries, which would not be an uncommon thing to do before going to bed if the lighting and other power-consuming services have been used during the evening. Presumably you could get banned for this for Drunk-in-Charge. However, it would have to be a particularly silly police officer who would go this route when the true situation was so obvious.

[paulsm]

Cooperman said:

I've often wondered what the situation would be if you had a Winnebago or similar, parked on a campsite and had an evening meal with some drink. Then you might need to run the engine to fully charge-up the batteries, which would not be an uncommon thing to do before going to bed if the lighting and other power-consuming services have been used during the evening. Presumably you could get banned for this for Drunk-in-Charge. However, it would have to be a particularly silly police officer who would go this route when the true situation was so obvious.

Bonus being that your unlikely to get police on a campsite.
At a festival they are everywhere. at V Festival it seems they were actively seaching out people to prosecute.

[vonhosen]

paulsm said:

any police officers care to comment?

There are lots of threads on this if you want to search, rather than repeating it in full.

Basic position is though that you commit the offence if you are drunk & in charge of the vehicle.
Where that is the case, there is a statutory defence for you. That is if 'you' can show there was no likelyhood of you driving then you shall not be convicted.

The CPS take a position that they will not proceed where the statutory defence can't be negated (in other words they can show that is was likely that you would drive).

That doesn't stop you being arrested for it where you are drunk in charge, it just means it wouldn't get to court or get convicted.

Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 22 August 11:33

[ApexJimi]

paulsm said:

at V Festival it seems they were actively seaching out people to prosecute.

Like fish in a barrel

[paulsm]

i'm glad no one has suggested staying sober.

[Cooperman]

So, what is the position with the Winnebago parked on a campsite (or at a 'festival') with the engine running at tickover to re-charge the main batteries to make sure it will start the next morning, no-one in the driving seat, but all sitting around drinking outside the vehicle, or inside at the dining table finishing off the wine and the beer? How could one prove there was no intention to drive and, with the keys in the ignition and engine running, but no-one in the driving seat, who is 'in-charge' of it anyway? It seems as though this is a 'grey' area, or not, and Von will, hopefully, be along to make things clear. It may be a purely technical offence, but if this is the case then the risks are still there.
My only experience with this sort of thing is with a cabin cruiser moored on the river with the main engine running to re-charge and everyone 'well-oiled' and sitting on the bank following a barbeque all evening. I, for one, would not have wanted to attempt to steer the thing!

[Munter]

Cooperman said:

So, what is the position with the Winnebago parked on a campsite (or at a 'festival') with the engine running at tickover to re-charge the main batteries to make sure it will start the next morning, no-one in the driving seat, but all sitting around drinking outside the vehicle, or inside at the dining table finishing off the wine and the beer? How could one prove there was no intention to drive and, with the keys in the ignition and engine running, but no-one in the driving seat, who is 'in-charge' of it anyway?

Ah well you see it is an offence to leave a vehicle with the engine running. Hence turbo timers are technically illegal to use. So in the situation with you all outside someone has comitted that offence.

[Cooperman]

Now it really is getting to be a 'grey' area.
Are we now saying that if I pay to park on a campsite in a 'Winnie', have quite a few drinks over dinner, ask my 12-year-old grandson to start the engine to put some charge into the main batteries then get out of the vehicle and we all sit outside whilst it charges, I can be guilty of not only being 'Drunk-in-Charge', but also of of having the engine running whilst no-one is in the vehicle.
Or, if no-one is inside the vehicle whilst the engine is running, then, maybe, no-one is in-charge of it, so there is just the offence of leaving the engine running. But who then get's charged with an offence. I am not in charge as I've been drinking and am not in physical possession of the keys (they are in the ignition!) and the last person to hold them did not have a licence due to being only 12. If my wife got back in the vehicle to wash some glasses, would she then be 'in-charge' and thus liable to be prosecuted just because she walked up to the sink and ran some water?
How many camper-van owners know about all this anyway?
Is the law really that much of an ass?

[millband]

How does any of that matter when you're not on a public road? Surely you can do what you like on a private field?????

[paulsm]

millband said:

How does any of that matter when you're not on a public road? Surely you can do what you like on a private field?????

if it's open to the public, then it apparently becomes a 'public space'

[Mattt]

paulsm said:

millband said:

How does any of that matter when you're not on a public road? Surely you can do what you like on a private field?????

if it's open to the public, then it apparently becomes a 'public space'

AFAIK the provisions of the Road Traffic Act apply to private land to which the public have reasonable access.

Surely there should be a SP&L FAQs?

[mrmr96]

Cooperman said:

However, it would have to be a particularly silly police officer who would go this route when the true situation was so obvious.

I think you'll find that unfortunatly the police and CPS will frequently not let common sense get in the way of an easy conviction.

Edited by mrmr96 on Wednesday 22 August 13:06