I have a question for any bib/lawyers/profs
Discussion
During intellegent conversation this afternoon spouted by the conviction of the footballer guy a few points were raised which we could come to no resolution hence i was wondering if anyone really knows the answer.
What puzzles me is that the footballers father did not get prosecuted for "driving without insurance" and his son-in-law did not get prosecuted for "permitting a vehilce to be driven without insurance. I find it unlikely that his father-in-law has insurance to drive that car as he is abroad for 2 years. Do the speed camera partnerships not check this with the dvla or whoever?
It struck me also in that case a few weeks ago of the father taking the rap for his son on a speeding ticket. Again no insurance offences, can we assume that the car was insured in his fathers name or do they just not check it?
The conversation took to laser cameras.......
A point raised was that the DVLA hold your photograph for your licence(assuming you have a photocard licence). When a laser or mobile camera takes a front on photo then they have the picture of your face. Assuming you as highlighted in a previous case as a named driver say you do not know who was driving and you as the registered keeper can prove you were somewhere else however providing a list of possible/likely(insured) drivers would they check the photographs to see if they could identify the speeding driver?
I said that a laser camera van does not always operate and such that they will arrive where they are going to be shooting before the time of operation. I said it was like any other 9 to 5 job and they would only start at certain times of the day. Admittedley though i am not sure, could anyone clarify.
The conversation then turned to fixed penalty points....
Fixed penalty points for a speeding offence go on your licence at the date of offence and not the date which they are actually added, Correct? Since they are valid for 3 years and lets say you never went to court till 1 year after the offence would that then mean the points were only vaild for 2 more years. Also since the points are vaild only for 3 years...if the courts got so clogged up that it took 3 years to get there then that would mean the points would be invalid - also that the points you get would be out of date so they wouldnt have to be added to your licence hence they wouldnt be on for the fourth year.
A further point was raised, section 172 of the rta - this offence carries the same penalty that a speeding ticket however am i right in thinking that these go on the date this offence is charged? Or do they come as fpn or is it summons? If it is summons then the offence date and points will go on the date of judgement and not the offence. Ie. If a person has 9 points, gets a fpn to get another three however 3 of his original points will come off in 1 month. If that person went to court which say takes 3 months and gets done on s172 offence. The orignal points will come off before the new ones are added, Am i correct in thinking this?
I would thankyou for your help in this matter as a few of us would like to know the answer to these.
What puzzles me is that the footballers father did not get prosecuted for "driving without insurance" and his son-in-law did not get prosecuted for "permitting a vehilce to be driven without insurance. I find it unlikely that his father-in-law has insurance to drive that car as he is abroad for 2 years. Do the speed camera partnerships not check this with the dvla or whoever?
It struck me also in that case a few weeks ago of the father taking the rap for his son on a speeding ticket. Again no insurance offences, can we assume that the car was insured in his fathers name or do they just not check it?
The conversation took to laser cameras.......
A point raised was that the DVLA hold your photograph for your licence(assuming you have a photocard licence). When a laser or mobile camera takes a front on photo then they have the picture of your face. Assuming you as highlighted in a previous case as a named driver say you do not know who was driving and you as the registered keeper can prove you were somewhere else however providing a list of possible/likely(insured) drivers would they check the photographs to see if they could identify the speeding driver?
I said that a laser camera van does not always operate and such that they will arrive where they are going to be shooting before the time of operation. I said it was like any other 9 to 5 job and they would only start at certain times of the day. Admittedley though i am not sure, could anyone clarify.
The conversation then turned to fixed penalty points....
Fixed penalty points for a speeding offence go on your licence at the date of offence and not the date which they are actually added, Correct? Since they are valid for 3 years and lets say you never went to court till 1 year after the offence would that then mean the points were only vaild for 2 more years. Also since the points are vaild only for 3 years...if the courts got so clogged up that it took 3 years to get there then that would mean the points would be invalid - also that the points you get would be out of date so they wouldnt have to be added to your licence hence they wouldnt be on for the fourth year.
A further point was raised, section 172 of the rta - this offence carries the same penalty that a speeding ticket however am i right in thinking that these go on the date this offence is charged? Or do they come as fpn or is it summons? If it is summons then the offence date and points will go on the date of judgement and not the offence. Ie. If a person has 9 points, gets a fpn to get another three however 3 of his original points will come off in 1 month. If that person went to court which say takes 3 months and gets done on s172 offence. The orignal points will come off before the new ones are added, Am i correct in thinking this?
I would thankyou for your help in this matter as a few of us would like to know the answer to these.
bi9_jk said:
During intellegent conversation this afternoon spouted by the conviction of the footballer guy a few points were raised which we could come to no resolution hence i was wondering if anyone really knows the answer.
What puzzles me is that the footballers father did not get prosecuted for "driving without insurance" and his son-in-law did not get prosecuted for "permitting a vehilce to be driven without insurance. I find it unlikely that his father-in-law has insurance to drive that car as he is abroad for 2 years. Do the speed camera partnerships not check this with the dvla or whoever?
The step father was interviewed & stated he hadn't been in the country, let alone driven the car. It's not his car there were no insurance offences by him.What puzzles me is that the footballers father did not get prosecuted for "driving without insurance" and his son-in-law did not get prosecuted for "permitting a vehilce to be driven without insurance. I find it unlikely that his father-in-law has insurance to drive that car as he is abroad for 2 years. Do the speed camera partnerships not check this with the dvla or whoever?
bi9_jk said:
It struck me also in that case a few weeks ago of the father taking the rap for his son on a speeding ticket. Again no insurance offences, can we assume that the car was insured in his fathers name or do they just not check it?
I don't know what case you are referring to.bi9_jk said:
The conversation took to laser cameras.......
A point raised was that the DVLA hold your photograph for your licence(assuming you have a photocard licence). When a laser or mobile camera takes a front on photo then they have the picture of your face. Assuming you as highlighted in a previous case as a named driver say you do not know who was driving and you as the registered keeper can prove you were somewhere else however providing a list of possible/likely(insured) drivers would they check the photographs to see if they could identify the speeding driver?
The lengths they will go to in order to identify the driver can't be determined here. It will depend. Usually Police officers dig deepest when they think someone is trying to have them over.A point raised was that the DVLA hold your photograph for your licence(assuming you have a photocard licence). When a laser or mobile camera takes a front on photo then they have the picture of your face. Assuming you as highlighted in a previous case as a named driver say you do not know who was driving and you as the registered keeper can prove you were somewhere else however providing a list of possible/likely(insured) drivers would they check the photographs to see if they could identify the speeding driver?
bi9_jk said:
I said that a laser camera van does not always operate and such that they will arrive where they are going to be shooting before the time of operation. I said it was like any other 9 to 5 job and they would only start at certain times of the day. Admittedley though i am not sure, could anyone clarify.
Mobile units won't be out 24/7. bi9_jk said:
The conversation then turned to fixed penalty points....
Fixed penalty points for a speeding offence go on your licence at the date of offence and not the date which they are actually added, Correct? Since they are valid for 3 years and lets say you never went to court till 1 year after the offence would that then mean the points were only vaild for 2 more years. Also since the points are vaild only for 3 years...if the courts got so clogged up that it took 3 years to get there then that would mean the points would be invalid - also that the points you get would be out of date so they wouldnt have to be added to your licence hence they wouldnt be on for the fourth year.
Endorsements for speeding will stay on the licence for 4 years from date of offence, unless it results in a disqualification in which case it's 4 years from date of conviction.Fixed penalty points for a speeding offence go on your licence at the date of offence and not the date which they are actually added, Correct? Since they are valid for 3 years and lets say you never went to court till 1 year after the offence would that then mean the points were only vaild for 2 more years. Also since the points are vaild only for 3 years...if the courts got so clogged up that it took 3 years to get there then that would mean the points would be invalid - also that the points you get would be out of date so they wouldnt have to be added to your licence hence they wouldnt be on for the fourth year.
Even if 3 years had passed they would still be put on licence, they just wouldn't be used for totting purposes. They would still also have to be disclosed under RoOA.
They also remain on your driver record even after they can be removed from the licence.
bi9_jk said:
Another point was raised, section 172 of the rta - this offence carries the same penalty that a speeding ticket however am i right in thinking that these go on the date this offence is charged? Or do they come as fpn or is it summons? If it is summons then the offence date and points will go on the date of judgement and not the offence. Ie. If a person has 9 points, gets a fpn to get another three however 3 of his original points will come off in 1 month. If that person went to court which say takes 3 months and gets done on s172 offence. The orignal points will come off before the new ones are added, Am i correct in thinking this?
I would thankyou for your help in this matter as a few of us would like to know the answer to these.
Points for 172 offence will also be applied as date of offence unless it results in disqualification, then it's date of conviction. If you have 12 points or more on your licence at any one time then you are liable for disqualification under totting up rules.I would thankyou for your help in this matter as a few of us would like to know the answer to these.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 25th August 01:25
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