Tenancy issue - return of deposit
Discussion
A long one, sorry.
I'm having a few problems at the moment with a flat that i rented recently. I left the property a little over 4 weeks ago at the termination of my lease, having given notice of my intention within the time frame allowed.
When i left the property, my landlords were in another country and would not return for a further 2 months approx. My landlords sister was tasked with dealing with the inventory etc and would oversee the return of my deposit (in her own words). I left the property as i would expect to find it, clean, tidy, with no damage.
Having left forwarding details, i awaited the return of my deposit. After a couple of missed phone calls between myself and the landlords sister (LS), i made contact. The LS informed me that she would need a forwarding address for my deposit (which i'd already left, in writing) for her to return my deposit. She informed me that she had 28 days to do so. She stated that my landlord would not return to the country until 01/09 and asked if i could wait til then for the deposit. I informed her i couldn't, as not only was that outwith the 28 day time frame, but it was also the day that myself and my girlfriend go on holiday for 2 weeks (aside from the fact that we were expecting our £550 back as spending money).
Now, on day 29, i was contacted by LS. LS informed me that she had been told by Noreen at the property leasing company that as LS is not the landlord, she is not allowed to refund the deposit. Strange. I called Noreen at the leasing company who informed me that only did she not say this, but that the leasing company have absolutely no interest/involvement in the lease. They charge a finders fee to hook up tenants with landlords and that is where their interest ends.
I called back LS, who told me that she would "have a word" with Noreen, and would call me back. Some half hour or so later, LS returned my call, and informed me that i "wouldn't be getting my deposit back as they had to clean the place". I asked what they had to clean... I won't go in to the allegations made at this time (unless you would advise me to?) but mentioned that the place was "dusty" and that "the cooker needed cleaned". I said that the house was cleaned at length by my girlfriend and i before we left and that this did not sound consistent with the place as we left it. I asked for more information and she said that it took her and two other family members "a while" to clean the place. I denied and asked for the contact details for my landlord wherever they were at that time. I got them and left it at that.
I then called the legal advice team that i get through work, and he advised me to not get nivolved in discussions etc and to send a recorded letter demanding my deposit by return or i would go to small claims. He said that reasonable wear and tear is expected and unless there was damage to property or items missing i should have my deposit.
Whilst on the phone to the solicitor i got a call from the landlords daughter (LD) - which is where my landlords are on holiday at present.
She went on to explain in a condescending tone that i would be lucky to see any money from my deposit back - explaining that the property was in such a state that i should be ashamed of myself. She went on to explain that they found mould on the bed covers, mattress, fridge, carpets were stained, dining room furniture was so thick with dust it had to be professionally cleaned, there was a tv in the garden, the wheely bins had to be removed, emptied and cleaned by the councils cleansing department, animal excrement on top of the wardrobe.. she then went on to explain that the bed was so bad it'd need replaced, and as would the cooker "it clearly hadn't been cleaned while you were there". I asked her to lower her tone, and itemise for me the work that had been done. She said she didn't have to, her relatives had been cleaning the place for hours and that i was going to have to pay.
Whether correct or not, i informed her that the work would have to have been done by a professional with an itemised bill for that to stand any chance of being paid- i could not put an estimate on her relatives time. I also asked her how she could be aware of the condition of the place as she is on the other side of the world. Initially she said she'd been to the property, i asked her if she'd come back from Australia to do this (assume she didnt know i knew where she lived?) this changed later to "she had been given a walk round by webcam". I told her i had sought preliminary legal advice and that i believed what she was doing was unlawful. She said "oh you think so? well i'll have you know i'm a solicitor" - anger got the better of me and i suggested that "she wasn't conducting herself very professionaly and i doubted her claims". She then asked for the name and address of my solicitor, which i coudnt give as it is an advice line that i call. I asked her to stay on the line and i would bring him on for a 3 way conversation to discuss this like adults. She hung up.
I sent my recorded letter demanding the return of my deposit within 7 days.
Then i received another phone call from her stating that the house would be cleaned professionally and that she would get me an invoice. I said that i wanted to see the property before it was done, visit with a rep from the leasing company and my solicitor - she declined and said the work had already been done. I told her there should have been a joint inspection before this was done, she said that there didn't have to be as the landlords weren't present. Now, in my lease it goes on to explain about a Statement of Dilapidation and Defficiency - is this important? The LD said that her witnesses were the three cleaners she paid to do the work? I thought it was her relatives? Apparently the bed doesnt need replaced any more, neither does the cooker, but it does need professionally cleaned. And the carpet had to be steam cleaned (think late 70's, early 80's swirly brown shagpile, threads visible in places, and so loose you can pick it up in the middle).
I digress.. Most of this is written as a statement of what i remember in case i do have to go to small claims. I have some questions though:
Can i be charged for work that they claim has had to go ahead without a joint inspection?
Would i be expected to pay a family member's time to clean the property?
What rights do they have to charge me for cleaning?
Aside from the facts i strenuously deny their claims - we had a good tenancy there, we looked after the place, are not an untidy couple (they never denied the place was tidy and free from damage) we even fitted a new washing machine they bought as the other one was past it's best. We got along well with them and the first that i hear of all this is the day after my deposit is due back to me?
When we first moved in they told us of the problems they had had with the previous tenant and that they were going to make sure they got paid for everything.
My concern is that if they are able to produce an invoice from a cleaning company - what bearing would it have on any court case? I know that i could pay a cleaning company to come round and steam clean my mattress, my carpets and bleach my toilet - but who is to prove it is required? They initially told me i would get none of my deposit, the offer then went to a third and then it was "lucky if i get half". 5 minutes later they could tell me it was exactly £350 i owed?!?!
Please help - unfortunately i'm away from the computer til Tuesday, but i look forward to your replies
I'm having a few problems at the moment with a flat that i rented recently. I left the property a little over 4 weeks ago at the termination of my lease, having given notice of my intention within the time frame allowed.
When i left the property, my landlords were in another country and would not return for a further 2 months approx. My landlords sister was tasked with dealing with the inventory etc and would oversee the return of my deposit (in her own words). I left the property as i would expect to find it, clean, tidy, with no damage.
Having left forwarding details, i awaited the return of my deposit. After a couple of missed phone calls between myself and the landlords sister (LS), i made contact. The LS informed me that she would need a forwarding address for my deposit (which i'd already left, in writing) for her to return my deposit. She informed me that she had 28 days to do so. She stated that my landlord would not return to the country until 01/09 and asked if i could wait til then for the deposit. I informed her i couldn't, as not only was that outwith the 28 day time frame, but it was also the day that myself and my girlfriend go on holiday for 2 weeks (aside from the fact that we were expecting our £550 back as spending money).
Now, on day 29, i was contacted by LS. LS informed me that she had been told by Noreen at the property leasing company that as LS is not the landlord, she is not allowed to refund the deposit. Strange. I called Noreen at the leasing company who informed me that only did she not say this, but that the leasing company have absolutely no interest/involvement in the lease. They charge a finders fee to hook up tenants with landlords and that is where their interest ends.
I called back LS, who told me that she would "have a word" with Noreen, and would call me back. Some half hour or so later, LS returned my call, and informed me that i "wouldn't be getting my deposit back as they had to clean the place". I asked what they had to clean... I won't go in to the allegations made at this time (unless you would advise me to?) but mentioned that the place was "dusty" and that "the cooker needed cleaned". I said that the house was cleaned at length by my girlfriend and i before we left and that this did not sound consistent with the place as we left it. I asked for more information and she said that it took her and two other family members "a while" to clean the place. I denied and asked for the contact details for my landlord wherever they were at that time. I got them and left it at that.
I then called the legal advice team that i get through work, and he advised me to not get nivolved in discussions etc and to send a recorded letter demanding my deposit by return or i would go to small claims. He said that reasonable wear and tear is expected and unless there was damage to property or items missing i should have my deposit.
Whilst on the phone to the solicitor i got a call from the landlords daughter (LD) - which is where my landlords are on holiday at present.
She went on to explain in a condescending tone that i would be lucky to see any money from my deposit back - explaining that the property was in such a state that i should be ashamed of myself. She went on to explain that they found mould on the bed covers, mattress, fridge, carpets were stained, dining room furniture was so thick with dust it had to be professionally cleaned, there was a tv in the garden, the wheely bins had to be removed, emptied and cleaned by the councils cleansing department, animal excrement on top of the wardrobe.. she then went on to explain that the bed was so bad it'd need replaced, and as would the cooker "it clearly hadn't been cleaned while you were there". I asked her to lower her tone, and itemise for me the work that had been done. She said she didn't have to, her relatives had been cleaning the place for hours and that i was going to have to pay.
Whether correct or not, i informed her that the work would have to have been done by a professional with an itemised bill for that to stand any chance of being paid- i could not put an estimate on her relatives time. I also asked her how she could be aware of the condition of the place as she is on the other side of the world. Initially she said she'd been to the property, i asked her if she'd come back from Australia to do this (assume she didnt know i knew where she lived?) this changed later to "she had been given a walk round by webcam". I told her i had sought preliminary legal advice and that i believed what she was doing was unlawful. She said "oh you think so? well i'll have you know i'm a solicitor" - anger got the better of me and i suggested that "she wasn't conducting herself very professionaly and i doubted her claims". She then asked for the name and address of my solicitor, which i coudnt give as it is an advice line that i call. I asked her to stay on the line and i would bring him on for a 3 way conversation to discuss this like adults. She hung up.
I sent my recorded letter demanding the return of my deposit within 7 days.
Then i received another phone call from her stating that the house would be cleaned professionally and that she would get me an invoice. I said that i wanted to see the property before it was done, visit with a rep from the leasing company and my solicitor - she declined and said the work had already been done. I told her there should have been a joint inspection before this was done, she said that there didn't have to be as the landlords weren't present. Now, in my lease it goes on to explain about a Statement of Dilapidation and Defficiency - is this important? The LD said that her witnesses were the three cleaners she paid to do the work? I thought it was her relatives? Apparently the bed doesnt need replaced any more, neither does the cooker, but it does need professionally cleaned. And the carpet had to be steam cleaned (think late 70's, early 80's swirly brown shagpile, threads visible in places, and so loose you can pick it up in the middle).
I digress.. Most of this is written as a statement of what i remember in case i do have to go to small claims. I have some questions though:
Can i be charged for work that they claim has had to go ahead without a joint inspection?
Would i be expected to pay a family member's time to clean the property?
What rights do they have to charge me for cleaning?
Aside from the facts i strenuously deny their claims - we had a good tenancy there, we looked after the place, are not an untidy couple (they never denied the place was tidy and free from damage) we even fitted a new washing machine they bought as the other one was past it's best. We got along well with them and the first that i hear of all this is the day after my deposit is due back to me?
When we first moved in they told us of the problems they had had with the previous tenant and that they were going to make sure they got paid for everything.
My concern is that if they are able to produce an invoice from a cleaning company - what bearing would it have on any court case? I know that i could pay a cleaning company to come round and steam clean my mattress, my carpets and bleach my toilet - but who is to prove it is required? They initially told me i would get none of my deposit, the offer then went to a third and then it was "lucky if i get half". 5 minutes later they could tell me it was exactly £350 i owed?!?!
Please help - unfortunately i'm away from the computer til Tuesday, but i look forward to your replies
They're trying it on.
Professional cleaners dont cost a fortune, if it was really dirty expect a bill of around £150 as two cleaners for a day will get through most stuff with ease.
Continue on the path you have, keep saying that arbitary charges are not acceptable and any deduction MUST be backed up with an invoice for work at a fair rate.
Issue small claims proceedings, they'll back down and if they dont the courts will take a very dim view of profiteering with deposits.
Professional cleaners dont cost a fortune, if it was really dirty expect a bill of around £150 as two cleaners for a day will get through most stuff with ease.
Continue on the path you have, keep saying that arbitary charges are not acceptable and any deduction MUST be backed up with an invoice for work at a fair rate.
Issue small claims proceedings, they'll back down and if they dont the courts will take a very dim view of profiteering with deposits.
I would advise always take photos of rental property immediately prior to departure. Of course, in your situation this is no good.
I am a landlord, and a tenant.
The landlord has no right to keep any part of your deposit unless costs were incurred fixing unreasonable damage or cleaning to bring the place back to its original state (+wear and tear).
I would suggest that to keep all of a 500 quid deposit the place would have to be in a very bad way, cleanliness wise. Have you any evidence to the contrary? Perhaps even incidental photos while you lived there, to show its general state? Bear in mind that by the sounds of things you're going to have to do small claims court - and do go for this, because landlords shouldn't be able to withhold deposits in this way - and in small claims IIRC it's balance of probabilities. I think that the timescales of the story back you up - delays, not allowing any response from you to their inspection, not allowing you to make amends, no invoice for cleaning.. and particularly the ?1month - 6 weeks? delay before kicking off the whole deposit issue.
regards
dave
I am a landlord, and a tenant.
The landlord has no right to keep any part of your deposit unless costs were incurred fixing unreasonable damage or cleaning to bring the place back to its original state (+wear and tear).
I would suggest that to keep all of a 500 quid deposit the place would have to be in a very bad way, cleanliness wise. Have you any evidence to the contrary? Perhaps even incidental photos while you lived there, to show its general state? Bear in mind that by the sounds of things you're going to have to do small claims court - and do go for this, because landlords shouldn't be able to withhold deposits in this way - and in small claims IIRC it's balance of probabilities. I think that the timescales of the story back you up - delays, not allowing any response from you to their inspection, not allowing you to make amends, no invoice for cleaning.. and particularly the ?1month - 6 weeks? delay before kicking off the whole deposit issue.
regards
dave
my girlfriend suggested taking photos, i brushed it off! hindsight and all that....
as i say - this is all totally uncharacteristic - and i have still not been able to speak to the one person who is in control of all of this - THE LANDLORD!
i've also decided to not take calls regarding the matter anymore. it's pointless, and aside from me taking notes is not going to prove any use when this does go to court. i need things in writing - half the point of me doing this post was a way to document the discussions i've had. They're by no means a word for word account, but i won't be bullied in this way, and i will get my deposit back.
as i say - this is all totally uncharacteristic - and i have still not been able to speak to the one person who is in control of all of this - THE LANDLORD!
i've also decided to not take calls regarding the matter anymore. it's pointless, and aside from me taking notes is not going to prove any use when this does go to court. i need things in writing - half the point of me doing this post was a way to document the discussions i've had. They're by no means a word for word account, but i won't be bullied in this way, and i will get my deposit back.
AMCDan said:
A long tale including
"Now, in my lease it goes on to explain about a Statement of Dilapidation and Defficiency - is this important?"
Yes. Very. It is essential to read all the terms of a lease/tenancy agreement very carefully. OK it can be a long and boring document full of small print, but not doing so can be costly."Now, in my lease it goes on to explain about a Statement of Dilapidation and Defficiency - is this important?"
It's unfortunate you didn't take your girlfriend's advice, especially if - as appears to be the case from your posting - that you are dealing direct with the landlord rather than through a managing agent.
In your case the crucial thing is whether your tenancy began after 6th April 2007. If it did you are in a much stronger position. However the usual length of a shorthold tenancy is 6 months so the timeframe suggests that yours will have begun before the key date.
This link may be of some help
http://www.kingston.gov.uk/browse/housing/housing_...
From what you have posted so far, my bet is that you are going to have to pursue this through the small claims procedure in the county court. Unfortunately it will be your word against theirs about the state of cleanliness of the property. You just have to hope that the judge thinks you are a fine upstanding citizen and the landlord and/or the LS are being economical with the truth.
In your case, given that the landlords were out of the country, the LS is going to be key to the whole business. If you can refute/discredit what she has said/will say, so much the better.
The story as you have posted it are useful notes. From now on document every step you take and make written and dated notes of any conversations you may have with other side. Better still record them. If you do decide to do this you are obliged to tell the other party that the conversation may/will be recorded.
If you do go to court make sure you claim for any financial loss you have suffered as a result of not having your money back when you should have done. For example bank borrowing/overdraft/interest charges/fees, credit card interest/late payment fees, etc.
I reckon your chances of winning are better than 50/50, so good luck with your fight and let us know how you get on.
I've had professional cleaners in before - my first student house was an absolute pigsty when we moved in, so we got the cleaners in and charged the letting agency.
IIRC, it cost around £150 for two people for an entire day. They cleaned a three bedroom house until it sparkled.
The fact that they're attempting to withold £550 to cover cleaning shows that they're being unreasonable. Get quotes from a few local companies so you can show the landlord and court this.
Reading your notes, I wonder how much the landlord actually knows about what's being done in his name...
IIRC, it cost around £150 for two people for an entire day. They cleaned a three bedroom house until it sparkled.
The fact that they're attempting to withold £550 to cover cleaning shows that they're being unreasonable. Get quotes from a few local companies so you can show the landlord and court this.
Reading your notes, I wonder how much the landlord actually knows about what's being done in his name...
THis thread REALLY boils my piss.
A couple of years ago I lived with a girlfriend in a rented flat, below the landlady's house. We had a very good relationship initially- She was away on business a lot and I looked after HER gardens, cat etc. whilst she was away.
The relationship with her did sour somewhat over time for no apparent reason. She put the rent up, which I accepted, and then started asking for 2 months notice if/when we left, which I was not prepared to accept.
Unfortunately my girlfriend and I split up, we gave a months's notice and moved out. When I left the flat was in excellent condition- I had thoroughly cleaned everywhere and it was, generally, spotless.
She witheld £200 of our deposit for a number of items which were completely false- Such as stating the flat was extremely dirty and required professional cleaning. An out-and-out lie.
We were charged for water damage to the panelling on the bath. This was due to the design of the shower, I had pointed out to her several times during the tenancy that this was happening and would need fixing but she failed to do so.
Basically, the flat was in far better condition and cleanliness when we left than on arrival. Not to mention the months of looking after her house, garden and pets on an entirely goodwill basis.
We were royally shafted, and unfortunately due to the relationship breakup small claims was not an option.
I like to think that one day I will somehow cost the landlady that £200. What goes around...
A couple of years ago I lived with a girlfriend in a rented flat, below the landlady's house. We had a very good relationship initially- She was away on business a lot and I looked after HER gardens, cat etc. whilst she was away.
The relationship with her did sour somewhat over time for no apparent reason. She put the rent up, which I accepted, and then started asking for 2 months notice if/when we left, which I was not prepared to accept.
Unfortunately my girlfriend and I split up, we gave a months's notice and moved out. When I left the flat was in excellent condition- I had thoroughly cleaned everywhere and it was, generally, spotless.
She witheld £200 of our deposit for a number of items which were completely false- Such as stating the flat was extremely dirty and required professional cleaning. An out-and-out lie.
We were charged for water damage to the panelling on the bath. This was due to the design of the shower, I had pointed out to her several times during the tenancy that this was happening and would need fixing but she failed to do so.
Basically, the flat was in far better condition and cleanliness when we left than on arrival. Not to mention the months of looking after her house, garden and pets on an entirely goodwill basis.
We were royally shafted, and unfortunately due to the relationship breakup small claims was not an option.
I like to think that one day I will somehow cost the landlady that £200. What goes around...
ARRRRRGGGGH F
KING CTING THEIVING LANDLORDS. WHY WON'T THEY FK OFF AND DIE!?
(Apologies for the errr... 3 possibly 4 good landlords out there, and that includes mine
)
I have turned down work from these ctish type of people before, the worst one I had where I turned up after being told "the tenant has moved out and the carpet is a total state", I turned up and it was cleaner than I have ever seen a 2 year old carpet.
When I pointed this out, she said "Well you have to try and get as much as possible out of them haven't you?"
NO, NO YOU FKING DONT YOU PARASITIC CTING FKPIECE!!!
I am sorry I cannot offer anything that constructive, only my hope that you do get this sorted out and if they do complain about the carpets, and the flat is local to me, I will come in free of charge and provide my opinion in writing if you require it
The Serious Fked Off with Ripoff Landlords Carpet Cleaner
KING CTING THEIVING LANDLORDS. WHY WON'T THEY FK OFF AND DIE!?(Apologies for the errr... 3 possibly 4 good landlords out there, and that includes mine
)I have turned down work from these c
tish type of people before, the worst one I had where I turned up after being told "the tenant has moved out and the carpet is a total state", I turned up and it was cleaner than I have ever seen a 2 year old carpet.When I pointed this out, she said "Well you have to try and get as much as possible out of them haven't you?"
NO, NO YOU F
KING DONT YOU PARASITIC CTING FKPIECE!!!I am sorry I cannot offer anything that constructive, only my hope that you do get this sorted out and if they do complain about the carpets, and the flat is local to me, I will come in free of charge and provide my opinion in writing if you require it
The Serious F
ked Off with Ripoff Landlords Carpet Cleanerjoewilliams said:
I've had professional cleaners in before - my first student house was an absolute pigsty when we moved in, so we got the cleaners in and charged the letting agency.
IIRC, it cost around £150 for two people for an entire day. They cleaned a three bedroom house until it sparkled.
The fact that they're attempting to withold £550 to cover cleaning shows that they're being unreasonable. Get quotes from a few local companies so you can show the landlord and court this.
Reading your notes, I wonder how much the landlord actually knows about what's being done in his name...
Yes but the relationship between landlord and agency is quite different in this case. They are merely finders of tenants, they do not appear to be managing the property on behalf of the landlord. In the case of letting to students, no landlord in their right mind would have a direct relationship. In many cases the landlord will want to be on the Uni list so there will be some checks and balances in the mix.IIRC, it cost around £150 for two people for an entire day. They cleaned a three bedroom house until it sparkled.
The fact that they're attempting to withold £550 to cover cleaning shows that they're being unreasonable. Get quotes from a few local companies so you can show the landlord and court this.
Reading your notes, I wonder how much the landlord actually knows about what's being done in his name...
Agree entirely with your second paragraph.
Who knows what the LS is, or isn't, telling her brother/sister.
Edited by Red Devil on Saturday 25th August 19:17
A bit of a state here.
A similar thing happened to me a few years ago, before I had the knowledge of the legal system and confidence to follow through.
It does seem that they are for whatever reason trying to keep your money. Their story keeps changing and the fact that they are not allowing independant witnessess to see the house is more than strange.
The other factor may be that they have made a mountain out of a molehill about a few things. The property DOES NOT have to be in perfect condition it needs to be in the condition you found it less allowable wear and tear. When a landlord comes to see a property after some time they wont remember every scratch and stain, but they will be horrified when they see it when they inspect the house! Again, the other factor is that landlords are in it for the profit - and at times like these with interest rates up, this may be marginal. Keeping someones deposit is an unscrupulous way of supplementing this.
The practical issue is that the reason why landlords get away with it as they have 'possession' of the money. Thus they can sit there and ignore threats safe in the knowledge that only the minority of cases reach court.
What you have done so far is exactly right. Whilst it is a good idea to keep the notes and dates of the conversations you have had, as you may need this in court, keep the rest in writing. You have given them a 7 day warning, but IMHO they will not give you any money back until the court summons arrives on the doorstep.
A lot of this sounds very bad for them, they failed to give the deposit back in time anyway, and the court will see this - and they only 'discovered' these problems after this time... They are also very sketchy about exactly what has been cleaned.
My advice would be legal action. To follow this through yourself is a lot more simple that people think. It involves writing a 'Final Demand' and warning of immediate legal action. That is important that you specifically warn this so that you can claim your costs. Your costs will be added to what you are claiming as well as out of pocket costs where I would include postage, telephone charges and compensation for your time sorting the problem, as well as interest on the £550. The costs *I think* were £30 last time I did it, but it may be slightly more for a claim of over £500.
You can get the N1 form from your local court or fill it out online at www.moneyclaimonline.co.uk. Its about 15 minutes work. When they get the summons they have a set time in which to respond. They have the option of paying in full or going to court. If they dont reply in time then you can apply by a judgement by default.
When you write the warning letter and court form you need to make sure who you are writing to is the person you have the contract with, to their current address. If they are out of the country, if you let their sister/daughter know it will be arriving then they can respond for them.
At the moment, they are pulling the strings as they have you money. You really empower yourself when the summons arrives. At that time the money is YOURS unless they defend your claim, which means that THEY will have to do something. Something like 97% of cases are settled before court...
A similar thing happened to me a few years ago, before I had the knowledge of the legal system and confidence to follow through.
It does seem that they are for whatever reason trying to keep your money. Their story keeps changing and the fact that they are not allowing independant witnessess to see the house is more than strange.
The other factor may be that they have made a mountain out of a molehill about a few things. The property DOES NOT have to be in perfect condition it needs to be in the condition you found it less allowable wear and tear. When a landlord comes to see a property after some time they wont remember every scratch and stain, but they will be horrified when they see it when they inspect the house! Again, the other factor is that landlords are in it for the profit - and at times like these with interest rates up, this may be marginal. Keeping someones deposit is an unscrupulous way of supplementing this.
The practical issue is that the reason why landlords get away with it as they have 'possession' of the money. Thus they can sit there and ignore threats safe in the knowledge that only the minority of cases reach court.
What you have done so far is exactly right. Whilst it is a good idea to keep the notes and dates of the conversations you have had, as you may need this in court, keep the rest in writing. You have given them a 7 day warning, but IMHO they will not give you any money back until the court summons arrives on the doorstep.
A lot of this sounds very bad for them, they failed to give the deposit back in time anyway, and the court will see this - and they only 'discovered' these problems after this time... They are also very sketchy about exactly what has been cleaned.
My advice would be legal action. To follow this through yourself is a lot more simple that people think. It involves writing a 'Final Demand' and warning of immediate legal action. That is important that you specifically warn this so that you can claim your costs. Your costs will be added to what you are claiming as well as out of pocket costs where I would include postage, telephone charges and compensation for your time sorting the problem, as well as interest on the £550. The costs *I think* were £30 last time I did it, but it may be slightly more for a claim of over £500.
You can get the N1 form from your local court or fill it out online at www.moneyclaimonline.co.uk. Its about 15 minutes work. When they get the summons they have a set time in which to respond. They have the option of paying in full or going to court. If they dont reply in time then you can apply by a judgement by default.
When you write the warning letter and court form you need to make sure who you are writing to is the person you have the contract with, to their current address. If they are out of the country, if you let their sister/daughter know it will be arriving then they can respond for them.
At the moment, they are pulling the strings as they have you money. You really empower yourself when the summons arrives. At that time the money is YOURS unless they defend your claim, which means that THEY will have to do something. Something like 97% of cases are settled before court...
I lost one deposit to a bell end of a landlord who got himself into financial difficulties and with held my deposit, we went as far as sending the lawyers letter but it wasnt going to be worth the time and hassle of going to court. The second flat I left was different, they claimed that the flat needed cleaning and that I was responsible for the condition of the whole flat including my flatmates room (he left a week earlier and vanished). The then tried to charge me most of my deposit for "professional cleaning". I took great pleasure in informing them that before leaving I had videod that state of the property and had actually videod myself using a steam cleaner and getting the place spotless. I got annoyed with them and ended up making one of the obnoxious beeatchs at the letting agency cry. I got my deposit back that time. Im so glad I bought my own place and have a mortgage. The deposit scheme is roundly abused in my experience (sorry to tar all you good landlords with the same brush) and if was in the situation again Id withhold the final months rent.
We are going through a similar thing. Only further complicated because the the rent & deposit was paid by our insurence compancy as we had to move out of our home for six months while it was being rebuilt. We signed the Tenancy agreement ( despite the ins company putting the money up front ). When we left, it was in a MUCH BETTER state than when we moved in. We left 10 months ago. The landlord was abroad at the time, but inspected the property about 5 weeks later then stated he would not return the deposit. The three parties ( us, ins company, and land lord ) have been having a very bitter bitter argument ever since. I don't want to go into any more details on a public forum ( especialy as this is "on going" ).
have had similar headaches with deposits , but the law has changed !!!
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TenancyDeposit/index.h...
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TenancyDeposit/index.h...
DPX said:
have had similar headaches with deposits , but the law has changed !!!
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TenancyDeposit/index.h...
About time... http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TenancyDeposit/index.h...
Excellent news
carrotchomper said:
THis thread REALLY boils my piss.
A couple of years ago I lived with a girlfriend in a rented flat, below the landlady's house. We had a very good relationship initially- She was away on business a lot and I looked after HER gardens, cat etc. whilst she was away.
The relationship with her did sour somewhat over time for no apparent reason. She put the rent up, which I accepted, and then started asking for 2 months notice if/when we left, which I was not prepared to accept.
Unfortunately my girlfriend and I split up, we gave a months's notice and moved out. When I left the flat was in excellent condition- I had thoroughly cleaned everywhere and it was, generally, spotless.
She witheld £200 of our deposit for a number of items which were completely false- Such as stating the flat was extremely dirty and required professional cleaning. An out-and-out lie.
We were charged for water damage to the panelling on the bath. This was due to the design of the shower, I had pointed out to her several times during the tenancy that this was happening and would need fixing but she failed to do so.
Basically, the flat was in far better condition and cleanliness when we left than on arrival. Not to mention the months of looking after her house, garden and pets on an entirely goodwill basis.
We were royally shafted, and unfortunately due to the relationship breakup small claims was not an option.
I like to think that one day I will somehow cost the landlady that £200. What goes around...
Listen very carefully to what I am about to say.A couple of years ago I lived with a girlfriend in a rented flat, below the landlady's house. We had a very good relationship initially- She was away on business a lot and I looked after HER gardens, cat etc. whilst she was away.
The relationship with her did sour somewhat over time for no apparent reason. She put the rent up, which I accepted, and then started asking for 2 months notice if/when we left, which I was not prepared to accept.
Unfortunately my girlfriend and I split up, we gave a months's notice and moved out. When I left the flat was in excellent condition- I had thoroughly cleaned everywhere and it was, generally, spotless.
She witheld £200 of our deposit for a number of items which were completely false- Such as stating the flat was extremely dirty and required professional cleaning. An out-and-out lie.
We were charged for water damage to the panelling on the bath. This was due to the design of the shower, I had pointed out to her several times during the tenancy that this was happening and would need fixing but she failed to do so.
Basically, the flat was in far better condition and cleanliness when we left than on arrival. Not to mention the months of looking after her house, garden and pets on an entirely goodwill basis.
We were royally shafted, and unfortunately due to the relationship breakup small claims was not an option.
I like to think that one day I will somehow cost the landlady that £200. What goes around...
I once got screwed over by a father and son, who lied about something which nearly cost me everything. I almost went to jail, in fact, based on their lies.
A few years later, I called the Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs anonymous grass line (Google for it under HMRC.)
As a result they are both now in prison for massive VAT fraud.
Every night as I settle down in my comfortable bed with my beautiful girlfriend, having eaten a nice meal and drunk a bottle of wine, I like to think of them getting reamed in the ar5e by the entire hardcore gay population of HMP Belmarsh.
It gives me a warm feeling. Very warm.
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Monday 27th August 18:47
Excellent advice about ringing HMRC, but before you do it I suggest you call the LD and hint its what you will do, if they are stupid enough to pull the deposit scam on you they are likely not paying the relevant taxes. Then do it anyway.
I am speaking as landlord about to refund my tenants deposit in full, but the new rules make things easier for everyone. This is a common scam.
I am speaking as landlord about to refund my tenants deposit in full, but the new rules make things easier for everyone. This is a common scam.
abomb1969 said:
Excellent advice about ringing HMRC, but before you do it I suggest you call the LD and hint its what you will do, if they are stupid enough to pull the deposit scam on you they are likely not paying the relevant taxes. Then do it anyway.
I am speaking as landlord about to refund my tenants deposit in full, but the new rules make things easier for everyone. This is a common scam.
I am reliably led to believe that the good troopers of HMRC cast no shadow or reflection, feel no pain, pity or remorse, and they absolutely will not stop. This is a first-class method of dealing with any "business" individual who is trying to hand you the shitty end of the stick.I am speaking as landlord about to refund my tenants deposit in full, but the new rules make things easier for everyone. This is a common scam.
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