Solicitor overpays bequest

[Simpo Two]

A month or so ago my mother and I both inherited some money from my late aunt.

However, we've suddenly both received letters from the solicitor saying that there's a sum due from the estate in respect of overpayment of pension, and asking us to send them back some of the money.

It seems to me that the solicitor has been a teensy bit negligent in sending out the bequests before checking all the numbers. Do we have to pay or can we tell them to sing for it?

[Olf]

One of the main things to remember about solicitors is that taking legal action doesn't cost 'em much!

[Simpo Two]

True, and I'm not intending to fight them over it, I just wondered what the technical position is. Once probate is granted, beneficiaries paid and the matter closed, perhaps that's it and if somebody's boobed, tough? The total is only £61. If I don't respond perhaps they'll give up?

[trunnie]

Perhaps I'm being old-fashioned about this, but how would you feel if the roles were reversed and they found that they had paid you £61 too little? If you would be annoyed then why do you think that you shouldn't pay them if their error is genuine?

Pension companies are not necessarily efficiently run and the solicitors may have decided to act in your favour by paying out the money rather than waiting for the pension company to get its act together and respond to any correspondence.

[Boosted LS1]

It's only £61, why make a fuss. I'd write out a cheque. Don't forget they were acting for your relative.

Boosted.

[Simpo Two]

Just wondered if it's legally enforceable or whether they're trying it on. I'll wait and see what happens. Any solicitors about to give a legal position on this?

[Vesuvius 996]

RichBurley said:

Yes, I can offer a clear opinion. You have accepted (collectively) £61 more than you are entitled to, and that money has been requested of you. For some season, despite this, you have posted on a forum as to whether you should pay the money, even though it is blindingly obvious that you should, and despite the fact that the solicitors have now made this £61 request, it appears that you are considering being unnecessarily difficult about it.

Correct. Pay it.

Don't be a knob over 61 sheets, which is the price of decent curry.

I am with Donald Trump on this one (and his company is a client....) and I am sure he'd forgive the paraphrasing......

"When you owe an organisation 61 quid, it's your problem. When you owe an organisation 61 billion quid, it's THEIR problem."

Pay up FFS. It's not your money, my sun.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Monday 27th August 19:14

[Simpo Two]

Thanks Rich. However you get me wrong. I'm not being 'unnecessarily difficult', merely seeking an opinion, which I now have, and thank you for.

If I send someone some money, then realise I've cocked up, do I have a right to ask for some back? I'm seeing it in black and white; the actual amount is immaterial. So £61 is the price of a curry - would you suggest that if it was £61K it was worth disputing? It's either right or it's wrong. To contrast - I'm self employed. I take responsibility for what I do. If I cock something up, I lose. If I'm negligent, I lose. If I underquote, I lose. So does a solicitor have the right to send out money willy-nilly and then say 'Oh hang on, we've cocked up, send some back please?' THAT is the nub of my argument. Which party has been negligent and/or unprofessional? Not me

[Vesuvius 996]

Simpo Two said:

Thanks Rich. However you get me wrong. I'm not being 'unnecessarily difficult', merely seeking an opinion, which I now have, and thank you for.

If I send someone some money, then realise I've cocked up, do I have a right to ask for some back? I'm seeing it in black and white; the actual amount is immaterial. So £61 is the price of a curry - would you suggest that if it was £61K it was worth disputing? It's either right or it's wrong. To contrast - I'm self employed. I take responsibility for what I do. If I cock something up, I lose. If I'm negligent, I lose. If I underquote, I lose. So does a solicitor have the right to send out money willy-nilly and then say 'Oh hang on, we've cocked up, send some back please?' THAT is the nub of my argument. Which party has been negligent and/or unprofessional? Not me

It's either your money in law or it ain't.

In this case, it ain't. Give it back.

[NorthernBoy]

Simpo Two said:

Just wondered if it's legally enforceable or whether they're trying it on.

Trying ot on?

Surely you will give them their money back even if it is not legally enforceable?

[Vesuvius 996]

NorthernBoy said:

Simpo Two said:

Just wondered if it's legally enforceable or whether they're trying it on.

Trying ot on?

Surely you will give them their money back even if it is not legally enforceable?

Precisely.

If it ain't your money, give it back. 1p or a billion quid. You'd be amazed (though Northern boy will know this too) how much the trillions in the City trade on absolute good faith and nothing else.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Monday 27th August 19:58

[Chrisgr31]

Well I agree with the OP. Why shouldn't he ask whether the Solicitor is correct in asking for this money back?

I assume that the Solicitor has been paid to deal with this will, and it probably hasn't been cheap. The money he has been paid will have come out of the estate and surely the beneficiaries should expect that either when paying out the Solicitor should have said: -

"I haven't heard from the pension company yet so can't finalise the estate, so whilst I calculatethis is the amount of you are due I may require a refund"

alternatively he could have said: -

"I am unable to finalise the will yet but here is an interim payment" and then given them say 75% of the money due.

[superlightr]

Hmmm

If the solicitors were acting for the estate/executors and the estate owes money to a pension (overpayed), the estate/exec is obliged to pay it back.
Technically the estate cannot write off the overpayment even if its to the beneficiaries. The estate (executors) are a legal entity such like a company and are obliged/required to do whats best for the estate.

Saying that, the solicitors may not have been told of this overpayment until after the funds distributed, so its not their error. In which case I would imagin they (the estate) will sue you and for costs and indeed will be forced to do so.

If it was their error then they probably wont as its too low a sum, but as they are solicitors may do so out of principle. depends what the partners are like.

I would ask the solicitors how this error occured and go from there.,

If it was their error as solciitors/executors then you could ask them to write it off, but as mistakes/errors do happen in life, they may well take you and the other beneficiary to court anyway on principle. I would have, so would have my wife.

It does sound like they are legally entitled to the money, if they would win a court hearing is a bit more of a guess but I would say you would lose if the judge has not lost all his marbles.

Do they hold any more money?

So, in summary - pay up. your unlikely to win even if it was an error on their part. You will just piss them off if you mess around which you dont want to do. (spoken as an ex-solicitor and married to one.)

Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 28th August 15:58

[tigger1]

Vesuvius 996 said:

RichBurley said:

Yes, I can offer a clear opinion. You have accepted (collectively) £61 more than you are entitled to, and that money has been requested of you. For some season, despite this, you have posted on a forum as to whether you should pay the money, even though it is blindingly obvious that you should, and despite the fact that the solicitors have now made this £61 request, it appears that you are considering being unnecessarily difficult about it.

Correct. Pay it.

Don't be a knob over 61 sheets, which is the price of decent curry.

I am with Donald Trump on this one (and his company is a client....) and I am sure he'd forgive the paraphrasing......

"When you owe an organisation 61 quid, it's your problem. When you owe an organisation 61 billion quid, it's THEIR problem."

Pay up FFS. It's not your money, my sun.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Monday 27th August 19:14

Reasonable rant, spoiled by improper use of "sun" at the end. 7/0

[OscarT]

Reasonable judgement of a rant spoiled by the use of marking out of zero instead of ten, 5/10.

[stuartbuckell]

Seems that perhaps the Solicitor should have mentioned this in a previous letter?

Does this mean you can send an invoice to the solicitor for the time taken to write/post the cheque on his behalf?

I know it sounds petty, but it's the principle, right?

[Simpo Two]

Thank you for your views chaps, and about two of you actually grasped my OP

I have an update: the Executor phoned me last night (he had a request as well, but considerably larger). He's certainly not intending to oblige, advised me not to either, and is writing to tell the solicitors exactly what he thinks of them. Since he spent many years in a solicitor's practice, handling among other things probate, I'm happy to go with this for now. In his opinion it's an indemnity claim, and as such none of the beneficiaries will be getting out their chequebooks, at least not for the moment.

So perhaps they're right, perhaps they're not, but I'm not the type to send off money willy-nilly just because someone asks!

[JustinP1]

Simpo Two said:

Thank you for your views chaps, and about two of you actually grasped my OP

I have an update: the Executor phoned me last night (he had a request as well, but considerably larger). He's certainly not intending to oblige, advised me not to either, and is writing to tell the solicitors exactly what he thinks of them. Since he spent many years in a solicitor's practice, handling among other things probate, I'm happy to go with this for now. In his opinion it's an indemnity claim, and as such none of the beneficiaries will be getting out their chequebooks, at least not for the moment.

So perhaps they're right, perhaps they're not, but I'm not the type to send off money willy-nilly just because someone asks!

I think that is about the right way forward.

Whilst morally and technically the money was never in fact yours, that is only part of the point.

You employed solicitors who charged you a pretty large fee which covers their experienced and professional services, as well as a contribution to their professional insurance should they ****-up. They told you you had the money, gave it to you and you have used it as you were told it was yours.

Should they ask you for the money back, then morally then I would also expect that they should reduce their fees as you certainly didnt get the service that the amount you paid deserved!

My guess is that they are asking for the money back so that they dont have to claim on their insurance...

[Olf]

JustinP1 said:

Simpo Two said:

Thank you for your views chaps, and about two of you actually grasped my OP

I have an update: the Executor phoned me last night (he had a request as well, but considerably larger). He's certainly not intending to oblige, advised me not to either, and is writing to tell the solicitors exactly what he thinks of them. Since he spent many years in a solicitor's practice, handling among other things probate, I'm happy to go with this for now. In his opinion it's an indemnity claim, and as such none of the beneficiaries will be getting out their chequebooks, at least not for the moment.

So perhaps they're right, perhaps they're not, but I'm not the type to send off money willy-nilly just because someone asks!

I think that is about the right way forward.

Whilst morally and technically the money was never in fact yours, that is only part of the point.

You employed solicitors who charged you a pretty large fee which covers their experienced and professional services, as well as a contribution to their professional insurance should they ****-up. They told you you had the money, gave it to you and you have used it as you were told it was yours.

Should they ask you for the money back, then morally then I would also expect that they should reduce their fees as you certainly didnt get the service that the amount you paid deserved!

My guess is that they are asking for the money back so that they dont have to claim on their insurance...

I can't quite see a Solicitors firm claiming insurance for 3 or 4 months of an OAP pension can you?!

[JustinP1]

Olf said:

JustinP1 said:

Simpo Two said:

Thank you for your views chaps, and about two of you actually grasped my OP

I have an update: the Executor phoned me last night (he had a request as well, but considerably larger). He's certainly not intending to oblige, advised me not to either, and is writing to tell the solicitors exactly what he thinks of them. Since he spent many years in a solicitor's practice, handling among other things probate, I'm happy to go with this for now. In his opinion it's an indemnity claim, and as such none of the beneficiaries will be getting out their chequebooks, at least not for the moment.

So perhaps they're right, perhaps they're not, but I'm not the type to send off money willy-nilly just because someone asks!

I think that is about the right way forward.

Whilst morally and technically the money was never in fact yours, that is only part of the point.

You employed solicitors who charged you a pretty large fee which covers their experienced and professional services, as well as a contribution to their professional insurance should they ****-up. They told you you had the money, gave it to you and you have used it as you were told it was yours.

Should they ask you for the money back, then morally then I would also expect that they should reduce their fees as you certainly didnt get the service that the amount you paid deserved!

My guess is that they are asking for the money back so that they dont have to claim on their insurance...

I can't quite see a Solicitors firm claiming insurance for 3 or 4 months of an OAP pension can you?!

Ahem... they obviously want it enough to admit they have ****ed up to 2, 3 or more clients and ask them for a two figure sum!

If it is worth it for them, they would certainly claim! If its not, they wont - but that said if its not worth their while making a claim then they probably wont be bothered to chase the OP for the money anyway!