Discussion
i know this has been done before (i remember reading about it) but search function still dont work.
my idle roams between about 800 and 1200 as if it is hunting somewhat, i have been around the vaccum pipes etc and found nothing loose, i have also done the reset procedure as detailed where you reset the throttle idle calculated position by turning ignition on/off 10 times as detailed in the build manual.
still got lumpy idle
any tips?
by the way plans had the car last week and were asked to investigate, they adviced they had fitted new plugs on the service and it seemed better, i picked it up, drove it to germany and sadly it doesnt seem better at all.
plan to ring them tomorrow for telephone help if possible
my idle roams between about 800 and 1200 as if it is hunting somewhat, i have been around the vaccum pipes etc and found nothing loose, i have also done the reset procedure as detailed where you reset the throttle idle calculated position by turning ignition on/off 10 times as detailed in the build manual.
still got lumpy idle
any tips?
by the way plans had the car last week and were asked to investigate, they adviced they had fitted new plugs on the service and it seemed better, i picked it up, drove it to germany and sadly it doesnt seem better at all.
plan to ring them tomorrow for telephone help if possible
Hi Sean
I think it will probably be the first one, have a look at these links.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I think it will probably be the first one, have a look at these links.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Ash M400 said:
Hi Sean
I think it will probably be the first one, have a look at these links.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
thanks mate, off for a read now. how did you find them by the way? search doesnt work for me at the momentI think it will probably be the first one, have a look at these links.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
well, me as well but i reckon i deserve credit for being willing to plug my pc into my ecu with no idea of whats happening lol. well credit is one word for it i guess lol.
i found this on nobleforums here http://nobleforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297&p...
not sure if the link will work so i pasted as below.
Mike Evangelo @ 1G just posted this. I hope it helps.
Let me clear this so there is no confusion. First the Service
Software will work on any M12 or M400. Early software versions had no
prevision to rest the adaptive mapping. I had Trevor at Roush get us
an updated version (1.3) which could allow anyone to easily reset
their adaptive mapping. So the version to have is the 1.3 version. We
have for over a year now been sending this CD along with every
chassis.
All that is needed to use the software is a laptop and a 9-pin data
cable (Radio Shack RS-232C part #26-117B).
Stalling in the summer with the A/C on has always been a problem. You
have to remember that the this system does not use an idle control
valve nor does it see an A/C on signal. Therefore it is a fine
balance of idle speed and idle mapping that keeps the engine running
with the extra compressor load.
Last summer Trevor did some adjusting to our M400 mapping to help
with this. This provided a stronger idle and does help somewhat. We
have been using this mapping for over a year now so any M400 in this
range will have this. There are no such changes for the M12.
If you have repeated stalling check first for vacuum leaks first.
(smoke machine needed) Any vacuum leak in the plenum area will upset
the system and cannot be compensated for. Be sure the plugs are in
good condition and gapped correctly. Check for cracked porcelain as
this can easily happen on this engine. Listen carefully for misfires
at idle when the engine is hot. Weak coil packs will break down when
hot and cause random misfires. Random misfires of this kind will
spike the ECU causing it to loose its TDC and this can lead to a
stall. We've seen this happen a few times now.
If all this is good you may need to reset the adaptive mapping.
Changes in fuel mixes from area to area, extreme weather changes, or
changes to the engine management like the repair of a vacuum leak or
replacement of a bad sensor can all upset the additive maps.
Plug into the 9-pin data plug on the engine harness, at the right
side engine mount. Turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.
Start the Service software program, it will fine the engine values at
that time. Click on the "Reset Adaptive Maps" icon (button) on the
bottom of the screen. A window will come up telling you they are
reset.
Start the engine. Let the engine warm up until you see lambda
activity. The lambda values should start changing up and down. If
after about 5 mins you see no activity run the engine at 2000 rpm
until the lambdas come in. (no lambda activity, you have other
problems)
Check the idle RPM at this point. It should be close to 900 rpm with
the A/C off. Set the RPM so it stays above 850 with the A/C on most
of the time and below 900 with the A/C off most of the time. I find
this seems to work the best. Don't try this with the tach, it's not
that actuate under 1000 rpms to be setting the idle. After you have
the idle set cycle the key on and off to set the TPS.(10x)
Some driving adjustment can help also, just remember that the system
doesn't see the A/C load is percent. When cold and just starting in
the morning, keep the A/C off until you get going on the road. When
first starting after a hot soak, switch it off until the engine gets
stabilized. Quick off the throttles could cause a stall, so be
careful to avoid this.
so i did it and my car went bang!!!!!! no not really really, the idle sort of started to stabalize but a bit high about 1050. so i backed off the throttle stop screw to bring them down to a pretty stable 900, lambda sensors were jumping about nicely so they seem to be working, no faults were reported.
then it started to rain so i had to bring pc in before it went bang. off for a test drive to see how it goes. apparently the ecu will relearn its parameters from scratch
i found this on nobleforums here http://nobleforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297&p...
not sure if the link will work so i pasted as below.
Mike Evangelo @ 1G just posted this. I hope it helps.
Let me clear this so there is no confusion. First the Service
Software will work on any M12 or M400. Early software versions had no
prevision to rest the adaptive mapping. I had Trevor at Roush get us
an updated version (1.3) which could allow anyone to easily reset
their adaptive mapping. So the version to have is the 1.3 version. We
have for over a year now been sending this CD along with every
chassis.
All that is needed to use the software is a laptop and a 9-pin data
cable (Radio Shack RS-232C part #26-117B).
Stalling in the summer with the A/C on has always been a problem. You
have to remember that the this system does not use an idle control
valve nor does it see an A/C on signal. Therefore it is a fine
balance of idle speed and idle mapping that keeps the engine running
with the extra compressor load.
Last summer Trevor did some adjusting to our M400 mapping to help
with this. This provided a stronger idle and does help somewhat. We
have been using this mapping for over a year now so any M400 in this
range will have this. There are no such changes for the M12.
If you have repeated stalling check first for vacuum leaks first.
(smoke machine needed) Any vacuum leak in the plenum area will upset
the system and cannot be compensated for. Be sure the plugs are in
good condition and gapped correctly. Check for cracked porcelain as
this can easily happen on this engine. Listen carefully for misfires
at idle when the engine is hot. Weak coil packs will break down when
hot and cause random misfires. Random misfires of this kind will
spike the ECU causing it to loose its TDC and this can lead to a
stall. We've seen this happen a few times now.
If all this is good you may need to reset the adaptive mapping.
Changes in fuel mixes from area to area, extreme weather changes, or
changes to the engine management like the repair of a vacuum leak or
replacement of a bad sensor can all upset the additive maps.
Plug into the 9-pin data plug on the engine harness, at the right
side engine mount. Turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.
Start the Service software program, it will fine the engine values at
that time. Click on the "Reset Adaptive Maps" icon (button) on the
bottom of the screen. A window will come up telling you they are
reset.
Start the engine. Let the engine warm up until you see lambda
activity. The lambda values should start changing up and down. If
after about 5 mins you see no activity run the engine at 2000 rpm
until the lambdas come in. (no lambda activity, you have other
problems)
Check the idle RPM at this point. It should be close to 900 rpm with
the A/C off. Set the RPM so it stays above 850 with the A/C on most
of the time and below 900 with the A/C off most of the time. I find
this seems to work the best. Don't try this with the tach, it's not
that actuate under 1000 rpms to be setting the idle. After you have
the idle set cycle the key on and off to set the TPS.(10x)
Some driving adjustment can help also, just remember that the system
doesn't see the A/C load is percent. When cold and just starting in
the morning, keep the A/C off until you get going on the road. When
first starting after a hot soak, switch it off until the engine gets
stabilized. Quick off the throttles could cause a stall, so be
careful to avoid this.
so i did it and my car went bang!!!!!! no not really really, the idle sort of started to stabalize but a bit high about 1050. so i backed off the throttle stop screw to bring them down to a pretty stable 900, lambda sensors were jumping about nicely so they seem to be working, no faults were reported.
then it started to rain so i had to bring pc in before it went bang. off for a test drive to see how it goes. apparently the ecu will relearn its parameters from scratch
I had this issue with mine. After a 200 quid rolling road setup all it turned out to be was the low idel vacuum pipe had got kinked, hence it had no idea what to run at rpm wise.
Seems like your having quite a few niggles which is a shame. This is why i have put off selling mine as i want it to be 100% for the next owner. O/T, if you want to turn it into a better mileage tourer (i personally find 5+ hours at a time fine), get some seat cushions made up. The first owner had some ones made form mine trimmed exactly like the seats. They take out all the vibration from the road which is great for motorways. Second thing that is great is upgrading the sh1tty speakers and stereo. I bought a USB Pioneer unit and MB components. Lovely sound for the money.
Seems like your having quite a few niggles which is a shame. This is why i have put off selling mine as i want it to be 100% for the next owner. O/T, if you want to turn it into a better mileage tourer (i personally find 5+ hours at a time fine), get some seat cushions made up. The first owner had some ones made form mine trimmed exactly like the seats. They take out all the vibration from the road which is great for motorways. Second thing that is great is upgrading the sh1tty speakers and stereo. I bought a USB Pioneer unit and MB components. Lovely sound for the money.
ajg31 said:
I had this issue with mine. After a 200 quid rolling road setup all it turned out to be was the low idel vacuum pipe had got kinked, hence it had no idea what to run at rpm wise.
Seems like your having quite a few niggles which is a shame. This is why i have put off selling mine as i want it to be 100% for the next owner. O/T, if you want to turn it into a better mileage tourer (i personally find 5+ hours at a time fine), get some seat cushions made up. The first owner had some ones made form mine trimmed exactly like the seats. They take out all the vibration from the road which is great for motorways. Second thing that is great is upgrading the sh1tty speakers and stereo. I bought a USB Pioneer unit and MB components. Lovely sound for the money.
been on the test drive and i must say it is much much better now, idle is smooth, seems to pull away smoother as well, handling is better (set up toe front and rear today). seems that doing the adaptive reset has sorted things.Seems like your having quite a few niggles which is a shame. This is why i have put off selling mine as i want it to be 100% for the next owner. O/T, if you want to turn it into a better mileage tourer (i personally find 5+ hours at a time fine), get some seat cushions made up. The first owner had some ones made form mine trimmed exactly like the seats. They take out all the vibration from the road which is great for motorways. Second thing that is great is upgrading the sh1tty speakers and stereo. I bought a USB Pioneer unit and MB components. Lovely sound for the money.
think i have sorted most of the niggles out now, just with it being my first few days with the car i wanted to go right over it and sort any issues out however small. may as well have it right.
stereo i am quite lucky, it has a blaupunkt dvd player installed, doesnt have a monitor but plays mp3 quite nicely, uprated kenwood speakers as well. dont think i will be installing a monitor for the dvd player though
sean_goodman said:
ajg31 said:
stereo i am quite lucky, it has a blaupunkt dvd player installed, doesnt have a monitor but plays mp3 quite nicely, uprated kenwood speakers as well. dont think i will be installing a monitor for the dvd player though
Your welcome .. good to see its still there ....It will also play DVD MP3 ... so you can get 20+ albums on it :-)
mc101 said:
sean_goodman said:
ajg31 said:
stereo i am quite lucky, it has a blaupunkt dvd player installed, doesnt have a monitor but plays mp3 quite nicely, uprated kenwood speakers as well. dont think i will be installing a monitor for the dvd player though
Your welcome .. good to see its still there ....It will also play DVD MP3 ... so you can get 20+ albums on it :-)
Great to hear things worked out. The "hunting at idle" problem is pretty common, but can usually be sorted after checking vacuum lines by using the diagnostic S/W, as you found out. Idle speed has to be set in a pretty narrow range to keep the ECU "happy", and it's very helpful to have a digital rpm read out while adjusting it. Also, FWIW, the ECU does not store (or report) fault codes.
Now it's time for the Grins
.
Now it's time for the Grins
.Edited by JLSELAN on Tuesday 28th August 02:25
JLSELAN said:
Great to hear things worked out. The "hunting at idle" problem is pretty common, but can usually be sorted after checking vacuum lines by using the diagnostic S/W, as you found out. Idle speed has to be set in a pretty narrow range to keep the ECU "happy", and it's very helpful to have a digital rpm read out while adjusting it. Also, FWIW, the ECU does not store (or report) fault codes.
Now it's time for the Grins.
cheers mate, by the way, when connected to a pc with the diagnostic software running and engine running, the bottom box on the display shows any error messages. if there are none as was the case with mine, every few seconds once it has finished its scan it displays the message "end of fault messages" and then rescans
Now it's time for the Grins
.cheers mate, by the way, when connected to a pc with the diagnostic software running and engine running, the bottom box on the display shows any error messages. if there are none as was the case with mine, every few seconds once it has finished its scan it displays the message "end of fault messages" and then rescans
Edited by JLSELAN on Tuesday 28th August 02:25
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