Track day injuries

[v8bloke]

Sorry to be morbid but how common is it for people to be injured or worse at Track Days.
Ive done quite a few and seen a fair few offs but never seen anyone injured as a result. (thank god)
Just trying to convince my wife that its a safe hobby.

Mark

[Fallen Angel]

v8bloke said:

Sorry to be morbid but how common is it for people to be injured or worse at Track Days.
Ive done quite a few and seen a fair few offs but never seen anyone injured as a result. (thank god)
Just trying to convince my wife that its a safe hobby.

Mark

I haven't got any official stats and quite honestly, I don't think I would really want to know them. Ignorance for me is bliss for me, I don't like to think too much about injury/damage stats

However, the only way you would convince your wife is to let her do a track day herself... I should imagine even one injury for your wife is one too many...

Edited by Fallen Angel on Monday 3rd September 10:19

[Don]

I've only ever hurt myself karting.

Broke a rib doing that. Hurt like a bastard for weeks...

[chilled]

Other than the 'ring, i've never seen an injury on a trackday. And I've done about 10 now I think.

[BertBert]

look here

http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/trackdays2005/t...

both a description and vid of the accident. Makes yer think! Er motorsport is er Dangerous, just like it says!

Bert

[mmm-five]

I must've done close to 50 track days and have only seen one injury after an incident(although I've seen few incidents) - and that was when the guy rolled the car after digging the front tyre in to some soft earth. The only damage to the driver was a bruised arm and cut palm.

[hunter 66]

You forget the death last year at Goodwood.......

[Fallen Angel]

chilled said:

Other than the 'ring, i've never seen an injury on a trackday. And I've done about 10 now I think.

Must admit, thats the only time I have seen any real injuries; but then you have to remember that everyday people are allowed to take everyday cars onto the Ring and they drive them like they would every day.

You just have to have it in the back of your mind all the time that you could come over the brow of a hill and see the tourist bus (possibly stopping to pick someone up)

[jon-]

Likewise, probably did 10 trackdays last year and didn't even see a bad off, just a few bruised egos as cars kissed barriers.

Worse I've seen is a RENTAL Toyota Yaris ending up on the roof on it's FIRST LAP at bedford. Try explaining that one to the rental company

[LocoBlade]

hunter 66 said:

You forget the death last year at Goodwood.......

Sad though it was and its certainly not to be dismissed as irrelevent, that did happen on an arrive-and-drive corporate event and I think there's a distinction to be made between those and a general trackday where people are driving their own cars so generally know its / their limits better and possibly take more care considering its their own money if they bend it. This is especially true in this case considering it was in a very fast car (Ferrari 360 Challenge race car IIRC) and on a very fast and unforgiving circuit.

Thread here about that incident: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[deviant]

I think considering how many trackdays there are a year the number of injuries and damaged cars is pretty good.

As we all know the motorsport is dangerous so you need to be responsible for yourself:

Get some time with a few different instructors on different tracks

Buy the best helmet you can afford

Fit a quality fire extinguisher

People may scoff but get yourself some FIA approved overalls. They are comfy to sit in all day and..well they are flame resistant!

Make sure your car is in top condition

Make sure YOU are in top condition...none of this tired and hungover lark!!

And as we saw in the video posted above if you come off in a vunerable position then you are going to be safer strapped in your car than you are getting caught half way out the door!

[speedychrissie]

motorsport is dangerous, but as long as people are sensible there are very few injuries. if you consider amateur racing for example where there is much more contact and aggressive driving (and many more incidents than on track days) there are still very few injuries. that is mainly because of strict safety rules (the main one being roll cages and a harness).

if you enforced a rule on trackdays whereby only race prepped cars (ie conform to all FIA race regulations) could go on track then there would probably be virtually no injuries at all.

i have spectated at well over a hundred races (my dad races) and i have only ever seen minor injuries. maybe this is abnormal, i dont know.

i have also been to a small number of track days and only ever seen 1 injury.

you are far more likely to injure your pride on a race track than yourself.

[jleroux]

speedychrissie said:

if you enforced a rule on trackdays whereby only race prepped cars could go on track then...

You'll have missed the point of track days entirely? In my opinion there should be NO (currently elligible) race cars on track days - except maybe where the driver is under tuition (which you can't do on a test day). Track days are for road cars, members of the public (without MSA licenses) to go and have a blast round a track.

I don't wish to tempt fate by specifically stating our statistics on damaged cars and injuries but suffice to say I feel much happier driving on track than I do on the road en-route to the circuit. Let's look at the evidence:-

1) Admittedly, mile per mile - you *are* statistically more likely to crash on track than on the road. However:-

2) You cannot have a head on collision and any faster than your own max speed (unlike on the road where you can in theory have an impact at twice your vMax)

3) Trained paramedics will be at the incident within 60 seconds if you have a big shunt.

4) There are no 'odd-shaped' objects to hit ie lampposts, fence-stakes, small children, deer etc

5) There are always experienced ARDS instructors available to offer tuition to anyone who's not been round a track before.

It's a very strong case to put to anyone who's nervous about going on-track (or has a nervous partner).

HTH

Jonny
BaT

[Fallen Angel]

jleroux said:

speedychrissie said:

if you enforced a rule on trackdays whereby only race prepped cars could go on track then...

You'll have missed the point of track days entirely? In my opinion there should be NO (currently elligible) race cars on track days - except maybe where the driver is under tuition (which you can't do on a test day). Track days are for road cars, members of the public (without MSA licenses) to go and have a blast round a track.

I have to agree with jleroux.. the whole point of track days is to enable "joe public" to take their p&j on the track.

[speedychrissie]

jleroux said:

speedychrissie said:

if you enforced a rule on trackdays whereby only race prepped cars could go on track then...

You'll have missed the point of track days entirely?

actually i completely agree with you. i too think that track days should be for road going cars only. maybe it is just because my car isnt very fast on track, but i found that i was constantly having to keep one eye on my mirrors because some of the superfast caterhams type cars were lapping so ridiculously fast that they were always there behind me.

my point was just that the times when you might get injured on track are likely to be either when you overestimate your (or your cars) abilities, or when you spend vast amounts of money on making the car go faster in a straight line but dont put anything into making it stop better or in a manner that is better for the occupants.

both of these can be avoided by taking things sensibly and carefully thinking about what you want from a car before modifying it.

[Fallen Angel]

speedychrissie said:

jleroux said:

speedychrissie said:

if you enforced a rule on trackdays whereby only race prepped cars could go on track then...

You'll have missed the point of track days entirely?

actually i completely agree with you. i too think that track days should be for road going cars only. maybe it is just because my car isnt very fast on track, but i found that i was constantly having to keep one eye on my mirrors because some of the superfast caterhams type cars were lapping so ridiculously fast that they were always there behind me.

my point was just that the times when you might get injured on track are likely to be either when you overestimate your (or your cars) abilities, or when you spend vast amounts of money on making the car go faster in a straight line but dont put anything into making it stop better or in a manner that is better for the occupants.

both of these can be avoided by taking things sensibly and carefully thinking about what you want from a car before modifying it.

The thing is though there are sessioned track days where everyone rates themselves and opts for their level of session then gets switched if needs be once assessed by the track company.

I personally prefer OPLs (more time on track and more of a challenge). The last OPL I did was the day before a race and the field was made up of about 88% Caterham Academies who were treating the track day as a practice day. There was absolutely no way they were going to observe the OT rules but, I was on an OPL, yes it was a little unnerving at first but I just got in there with them. On the straights I moved out of their way if needed.

I always, always, always have my eyes in the mirror on track days - I do see a need for that

[BertBert]

jleroux said:

snip

I don't wish to tempt fate by specifically stating our statistics on damaged cars and injuries but suffice to say I feel much happier driving on track than I do on the road en-route to the circuit. Let's look at the evidence:-

1) Admittedly, mile per mile - you *are* statistically more likely to crash on track than on the road. However:-

2) You cannot have a head on collision and any faster than your own max speed (unlike on the road where you can in theory have an impact at twice your vMax)

3) Trained paramedics will be at the incident within 60 seconds if you have a big shunt.

4) There are no 'odd-shaped' objects to hit ie lampposts, fence-stakes, small children, deer etc

5) There are always experienced ARDS instructors available to offer tuition to anyone who's not been round a track before.

It's a very strong case to put to anyone who's nervous about going on-track (or has a nervous partner).

HTH

Jonny
BaT

A good argument, but not actually "evidence" Jonny. They are a set of points designed to support your argument that track day driving is safer than the road.

I could put a set of points as to why track day driving should be considered more dangerous, but that wouldn't advance the debate particularly. You however are presumably in possession of your stats...injuries per driver-hour of track time or similar.

Could you share it with us?

Bert

[jleroux]

BertBert said:

You however are presumably in possession of your stats...injuries per driver-hour of track time or similar.

Could you share it with us?

Bert

Obviously I can only talk for BookaTrack.com Ltd track days (and those organised by myself prior to BaT). I have now organised nearly 600 track days over the last 10 years - a total of well over 20,000 individual bookings. In all that time I have seen just 8 car to car contact incidents (6 of which involved at least 1 race car). When you think that race cars constitute less than 30% of the bookings that's quite a significant statistic in itself.

In terms of injuries - there have been 4 recorded injuries which required external medical assistance (ie taken to hospital) as a result of crashing on track. Ironically, there have been just as many people taken off to hospital for non-crash-related injuries or illnesses. To my knowledge, none of those 4 people had any lasting injuries - though one of them was in a neck-brace for a few months IIRC.

Again, probably not "evidence" in the legal sense, but certainly sufficient ammunition for a decent forum/pub debate, or a fight with the missus.

Jonny
BaT

[jon-]

Interesting figures Jonny, thanks for sharing.

(I've nearly been one of those car to car figures when an MX5 unsuspectingly span in front of me at Donington when I was following a bit too close but I did the heroic thing and stuffed it into the litter - lesson learnt)

[JonRB]

jleroux said:

I have now organised nearly 600 track days over the last 10 years

You lightweight, Jonny. According to the fantasist Sean Edwards over on this thread he's instructed on over 500 track days in 3 years. Allegedly.