Loophole closed !
Discussion
Does anyone know anyone that has avoided prosecution for not signing the NIP ?
Inside info shows that ALL forces are now prosecuting for not returning the NIP correctly completed (2 chances given) and this will lead to 3 points and a fine anyway......so now it looks like there is no escaping the inevitable
Inside info shows that ALL forces are now prosecuting for not returning the NIP correctly completed (2 chances given) and this will lead to 3 points and a fine anyway......so now it looks like there is no escaping the inevitable
What does prosecuting for not returning the NIP completed correctly mean ? Since not completing the NIP is not an offence then the only charges are to proceed with the original speeding charge (hoping that the evidence will stand up or the magistrates will rubber stamp it ) or a S172 charge for failing to disclose.
The way I read it was that if I dont send it back signed then they will treat it as if I had not provided it at all and give you 3pts/£60 for not providing driver info etc.
But getting back to my question...does anyone know of anyone that has NOT been summonsed as a result of not signing the NIP?
yep - me
offence in Jan ...and still no summons...had about 4 or 5 letters to and fro...3 unsigned NIPS so far. One threat of prosecution for failing to disclose, sent a letter back saying I had fully complied with their request for info etc and had provided info on 2 occasions ...got another NIP back ...sent his back unsigned..still waiting 3 weeks later to hear anything
offence in Jan ...and still no summons...had about 4 or 5 letters to and fro...3 unsigned NIPS so far. One threat of prosecution for failing to disclose, sent a letter back saying I had fully complied with their request for info etc and had provided info on 2 occasions ...got another NIP back ...sent his back unsigned..still waiting 3 weeks later to hear anything
bogie said: yep - me
offence in Jan ...and still no summons...had about 4 or 5 letters to and fro...3 unsigned NIPS so far. One threat of prosecution for failing to disclose, sent a letter back saying I had fully complied with their request for info etc and had provided info on 2 occasions ...got another NIP back ...sent his back unsigned..still waiting 3 weeks later to hear anything
Top man I like it
wish I knew about it before I signed
Mika @ Pepipoo reports:
"For your information, I asked John Josephs (who is John Pickford's solicitor) the following question:
"You said that you had now tested the Broomfield arguments in court. How did you get on, was the motorist acquitted etc.?"
He replied as follows:
"I've never yet tested Broomfield beyond a pre-trial review as the CPS keep dropping the cases!""
"For your information, I asked John Josephs (who is John Pickford's solicitor) the following question:
"You said that you had now tested the Broomfield arguments in court. How did you get on, was the motorist acquitted etc.?"
He replied as follows:
"I've never yet tested Broomfield beyond a pre-trial review as the CPS keep dropping the cases!""
bogie said: yep - me
offence in Jan ...and still no summons...had about 4 or 5 letters to and fro...3 unsigned NIPS so far. One threat of prosecution for failing to disclose, sent a letter back saying I had fully complied with their request for info etc and had provided info on 2 occasions ...got another NIP back ...sent his back unsigned..still waiting 3 weeks later to hear anything
I'm now at the stage of deciding whether to send the third NIP back -- got seven days...
wimdows said: Stick with it Manek. They really are calling your bluff. They're not stupid - they know that if they take you to court they don't have any legal grounds and the case gets thrown out, so they won't do that.
I'm sending back my 1st NIP - unsigned.
Cheers,
Wim
...And dont forget that big "F**K YOU" being the recorded delivery part!
(smiley of the north wales ACPO tosser - have yet to find one!)
wimdows said: Stick with it Manek. They really are calling your bluff. They're not stupid - they know that if they take you to court they don't have any legal grounds and the case gets thrown out, so they won't do that.
Windows do you mean on the speeding charge or a section 172 offence? on a speeding charge I am sure you are right but on s172 unless you know something the rest of us do not. I would say its could be as high as 50/50 that they might win.
tonybav said:Windows do you mean on the speeding charge or a section 172 offence? on a speeding charge I am sure you are right but on s172 unless you know something the rest of us do not. I would say its could be as high as 50/50 that they might win.
How? You are required to fill in the NIP and return it. This has been done, and recorded delivery. You have the recorded delivery receipt and copy of the NIP. What part of the law have you failed to comply with?
Windows do you mean on the speeding charge or a section 172 offence? on a speeding charge I am sure you are right but on s172 unless you know something the rest of us do not. I would say its could be as high as 50/50 that they might win.
No one has been summonsed before a Court for an unsigned form since the Pickford case.
"In giving judgment, HH Judge Ticehurst confirmed that there was a "lacuna" in the law in that there was no requirement to sign the S172 form (thus making it an admissible "statement", and however unpalatable that result might be it was up to Parliament, not the Courts to remedy defective legislation."
>> Edited by Deadly Dog on Thursday 12th June 14:11
Size Nine Elm said: How? You are required to fill in the NIP and return it. This has been done, and recorded delivery. You have the recorded delivery receipt and copy of the NIP. What part of the law have you failed to comply with?
Have posted this already but cannot find it. How? easy you are correct that s172 does not require you to sign but nor does it say you do not have to sign. The question for a court is would be does an unsigned NIP fulfil the requirements of s172, this is far from straight forward, and there are arguments on both sides. One important argument for requiring a signature would be that by not signing it how can the authorities be sure that the information was provided by the registered keeper. With out a signature it could have been provided by some one else so the legislation must require you to sign it even if it does not specifically say so.
Size Nine Elm said:
tonybav said:Windows do you mean on the speeding charge or a section 172 offence? on a speeding charge I am sure you are right but on s172 unless you know something the rest of us do not. I would say its could be as high as 50/50 that they might win.
How? You are required to fill in the NIP and return it. This has been done, and recorded delivery. You have the recorded delivery receipt and copy of the NIP. What part of the law have you failed to comply with?
The being subservient and bending over for them the shove it your butt part of the law, oh and the not allowing them to screw you even harder for the 60 pounds sterling and 3 points.
Just look at em squirming! LMAO!!!
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