Dead 3200GT? :(
Discussion
I've just got off the phone to the garage where my car currently is stranded and it sounds like extremely bad news, so I was hoping for a 2nd (and less expensive) opinion.
Basically, I smelled burning when last driving the car. To begin with I figured it must be outside, as the car was performing as normal, oil pressure good, water temp low etc.
I stopped about 10 mins later and saw a small amount of smoke rising from the driver side bonnet vent.
After that, the car refuses to start. The starter motor was then tested and it was identified as faulty. Unfortunately, replacing it didn't fix the problem.
So, the general opinion now appears to be a major engine issue; the engine having seized, so they intend to drop the sump to inspect the bearings etc.
Does that sound like a probable issue? I'm no mechanic, but I can't understand what would have caused the smoke, and why the car ran flawlessly on it's last journey (no drops in oil pressure, no horrible noises, or general 'weirdness' from the performance of the car at all). There are no signs of oil leakage, so I can't really understand what caused the smoke, other than electrics which doesn't support their theory.
The smoke appeared to rise from the drivers side of the engine bay and smelt 'electrical' so I'm really surprised by their diagnosis...
Any ideas?
Basically, I smelled burning when last driving the car. To begin with I figured it must be outside, as the car was performing as normal, oil pressure good, water temp low etc.
I stopped about 10 mins later and saw a small amount of smoke rising from the driver side bonnet vent.
After that, the car refuses to start. The starter motor was then tested and it was identified as faulty. Unfortunately, replacing it didn't fix the problem.
So, the general opinion now appears to be a major engine issue; the engine having seized, so they intend to drop the sump to inspect the bearings etc.
Does that sound like a probable issue? I'm no mechanic, but I can't understand what would have caused the smoke, and why the car ran flawlessly on it's last journey (no drops in oil pressure, no horrible noises, or general 'weirdness' from the performance of the car at all). There are no signs of oil leakage, so I can't really understand what caused the smoke, other than electrics which doesn't support their theory.
The smoke appeared to rise from the drivers side of the engine bay and smelt 'electrical' so I'm really surprised by their diagnosis...
Any ideas?
Clearly you have fried part of the electrics and/or electronics and that is the reason for not starting.
Curiously they replaced the starter - Why? Wiring burnt out or just because it would not engage? A blown fuse, cooked relay or even a defective ECU is enough to block the starter.
Under "normal" circumstances, electrical smoke coming from right hand vent only with no errors signalled on dashboard followed by failure to subsequently start suggests shorting of one or more cooper coils or its associated wiring.
How the hell anyone can diagnose bearing failure from the symptoms you describe is beyond me? Suggest getting the car to someone who understands the Model ASAP and away from numpties perhaps smelling a lucrative payola.
Hope this helps
Curiously they replaced the starter - Why? Wiring burnt out or just because it would not engage? A blown fuse, cooked relay or even a defective ECU is enough to block the starter.
Under "normal" circumstances, electrical smoke coming from right hand vent only with no errors signalled on dashboard followed by failure to subsequently start suggests shorting of one or more cooper coils or its associated wiring.
How the hell anyone can diagnose bearing failure from the symptoms you describe is beyond me? Suggest getting the car to someone who understands the Model ASAP and away from numpties perhaps smelling a lucrative payola.
Hope this helps
Nigelo said:
Curiously they replaced the starter - Why? Wiring burnt out or just because it would not engage? A blown fuse, cooked relay or even a defective ECU is enough to block the starter.
Under "normal" circumstances, electrical smoke coming from right hand vent only with no errors signalled on dashboard followed by failure to subsequently start suggests shorting of one or more cooper coils or its associated wiring.
Thanks for the reply, it certainly helps! Under "normal" circumstances, electrical smoke coming from right hand vent only with no errors signalled on dashboard followed by failure to subsequently start suggests shorting of one or more cooper coils or its associated wiring.
I believe the theory is that the starter failed to turn the engine over, because the engine has seized.
Previously, they removed the starter and deduced that it had failed (by running it off the car presumably). I did ask them to turn the engine over manually with the starter off, which they said they'd done (and would re-check). It would seem that never happened.
The current situation is that the new starter will not turn the engine over either, so it doesn't start. The mechanic I spoke to couldn't explain the smoke, thus my reluctance to accept their next course of action which is to drop the sump and inspect the bearings.
My concern is that the car is an early 3200GT and I've heard the horror stories about crankshaft endfloat issues. However, I would have expected some warning (oil pressure readings etc) should that have happened.
The garage that the car is currently at is a 'specialist car' company who usually deal with Ferrari's etc. It will be a hassle to get it to a Maserati specialist but I'm beginning to think, the best option.
Not sure whether it's possible on one of these, but why not try turning the engine over by hand? Surely there's a way of sticking a socket on the end of the crank and turning it over with a wrench. Make sure you take the plugs out before you try it though, to make your life a little easier. Just don't forget to take all the tools out before you turn the engine on again!
gingerpaul said:
Not sure whether it's possible on one of these, but why not try turning the engine over by hand? Surely there's a way of sticking a socket on the end of the crank and turning it over with a wrench. Make sure you take the plugs out before you try it though, to make your life a little easier. Just don't forget to take all the tools out before you turn the engine on again!
I did suggest that before they replaced the starter. I was told by the owner they'd done that (and double checked) and it was fine, so I ordered the starter. When it didn't fix the problem the mechanic told me he'd not done the check so I'm waiting for the owner to return to get a straight story but he's not back until Tuesday....
To perform the check now, they have to remove the starter, inlet manifold etc...
I am having serious problems understanding this nonsense.
The inlet manifold / plenum needs removing to replace the starter motor and therefore by definition has been done once. It does NOT need removing to manually rotate the engine as this is done using the FRONT crank pulley bolt as GP correctly suggested above.
Since I see you have a manual gearbox, it can also be done by engaging a high gear and pushing the car against engine resistance. In fact, this is the very technique I use for rotating the engine for checking valve clearances on manual vehicles. Again as suggested above, both methods involve removing plugs to remove resistance due to cylinder compression.
It is technically possible for crank endfloat to be so excessive that the crankshaft tries to mill its way through the block and therefore a lockup cannot be totally discounted. I have known, in fact seen, just one example of this but it was an old 2.24 V6 biturbo. This is NOT an engine siezure but rather blocking - If the engine cannot be rotated forwards using the 2nd technique above, then try backwards still engaging a high forward gear.
The inlet manifold / plenum needs removing to replace the starter motor and therefore by definition has been done once. It does NOT need removing to manually rotate the engine as this is done using the FRONT crank pulley bolt as GP correctly suggested above.
Since I see you have a manual gearbox, it can also be done by engaging a high gear and pushing the car against engine resistance. In fact, this is the very technique I use for rotating the engine for checking valve clearances on manual vehicles. Again as suggested above, both methods involve removing plugs to remove resistance due to cylinder compression.
It is technically possible for crank endfloat to be so excessive that the crankshaft tries to mill its way through the block and therefore a lockup cannot be totally discounted. I have known, in fact seen, just one example of this but it was an old 2.24 V6 biturbo. This is NOT an engine siezure but rather blocking - If the engine cannot be rotated forwards using the 2nd technique above, then try backwards still engaging a high forward gear.
Nigelo said:
I am having serious problems understanding this nonsense.
The inlet manifold / plenum needs removing to replace the starter motor and therefore by definition has been done once. It does NOT need removing to manually rotate the engine as this is done using the FRONT crank pulley bolt as GP correctly suggested above.
Since I see you have a manual gearbox, it can also be done by engaging a high gear and pushing the car against engine resistance. In fact, this is the very technique I use for rotating the engine for checking valve clearances on manual vehicles. Again as suggested above, both methods involve removing plugs to remove resistance due to cylinder compression.
It is technically possible for crank endfloat to be so excessive that the crankshaft tries to mill its way through the block and therefore a lockup cannot be totally discounted. I have known, in fact seen, just one example of this but it was an old 2.24 V6 biturbo. This is NOT an engine siezure but rather blocking - If the engine cannot be rotated forwards using the 2nd technique above, then try backwards still engaging a high forward gear.
Thanks for your help again! Could you just remind me where you work again, and I'll get the thing transported! The inlet manifold / plenum needs removing to replace the starter motor and therefore by definition has been done once. It does NOT need removing to manually rotate the engine as this is done using the FRONT crank pulley bolt as GP correctly suggested above.
Since I see you have a manual gearbox, it can also be done by engaging a high gear and pushing the car against engine resistance. In fact, this is the very technique I use for rotating the engine for checking valve clearances on manual vehicles. Again as suggested above, both methods involve removing plugs to remove resistance due to cylinder compression.
It is technically possible for crank endfloat to be so excessive that the crankshaft tries to mill its way through the block and therefore a lockup cannot be totally discounted. I have known, in fact seen, just one example of this but it was an old 2.24 V6 biturbo. This is NOT an engine siezure but rather blocking - If the engine cannot be rotated forwards using the 2nd technique above, then try backwards still engaging a high forward gear.
Thanks for the thought but I have hung up the spanners many years ago except for my own cars. If you need an excellent independent, I fully recommend Grimaldi Engineering in Halstead, Essex. Roberto Grimaldi is a personal friend and will look after you at sensible cost - See their website http://www.grimaldiengineering.co.uk/
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
Nigelo said:
Thanks for the thought but I have hung up the spanners many years ago except for my own cars. If you need an excellent independent, I fully recommend Grimaldi Engineering in Halstead, Essex. Roberto Grimaldi is a personal friend and will look after you at sensible cost - See their website http://www.grimaldiengineering.co.uk/
Hope this helps
It certainly does. I'll have a word with the garage owner tomorrow who to be fair, I've not spoken with for a few days before the latest 'developments'. Hope this helps
However, despite the cost of transportation, I do think that the best course of action is to get the car to Grimaldi.
thanks all!
Darren
fieldl said:
Vesuvius 996 said:
Get the car OUT of there as fast as possible and take it somewhere where they are not in the business of ripping people off.
How very different from your normal advice on the Porsche forum 
Are you defecting from Stuttgart as well ?There are some OPCs who are exceptional, and some who are robbers.
I have to say i am amazed at the total chaos that has ensued with your car. The way i read the problem with your car has just been guess work. I doubt what has been diagnosed because the basics have not been adhered to. Firstly,before jumping into the failed engine routine, which is always blamed because of the crankshaft endfloat issue. The basics of turning the engine over with the plugs out has not been done. What trouble codes are stored in the engine management system? Why or why replace the starter?
I would refuse to pay for anything because they are just guessing at your expense. Even the starter may have been replaced but why pay for something that has made no difference?
Get your car out of there rapidly.
Good Luck
I would refuse to pay for anything because they are just guessing at your expense. Even the starter may have been replaced but why pay for something that has made no difference?
Get your car out of there rapidly.
Good Luck
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