4.3 Big Valve Values
Discussion
I say it an 'original' big valve as there is a letter in the history file from TVR stating that its original spec on leaving the factory was indeed as a 4.3 big valve. I am awre there are quite a few badge engineered car and also some that were returned to the factory to be upgraded.
Chris.
Chris.
taz turbo said:
I say it an 'original' big valve as there is a letter in the history file from TVR stating that its original spec on leaving the factory was indeed as a 4.3 big valve. I am awre there are quite a few badge engineered car and also some that were returned to the factory to be upgraded.
Chris.
the question is...How many letters from the factory is there?? Chris.
The one advertised has also the letter, and the problem is that the owner got the letter after he bought the car, and he seems to think the letter alone add 2000 pounds value
I think that car gives you a very good idea of the value, i saw it, tried it, that car is great, very good condition, FSH, very good Ingleby report, letter from the factory, and, it is for sale since almost ...1 year (!) at that price.
I had proposed to discuss around 12.000 he refused, the car still there.
That's a griffith after all, nowadays less and less people are ready to pay premium price for a precat car when very good 500's can be found around 12-13000.
Edited by dmax on Saturday 8th September 23:21
Is it just me but a quick flick through the classifieds seems to point to a general 'softening' of values?
11-12K will get you a decent 500 precats for quite a bit less,
Being as you could have the heads uprated to better than big valve spec for about 700 notes why the furour over BV spec?
Or is there something else?
Matt
11-12K will get you a decent 500 precats for quite a bit less,
Being as you could have the heads uprated to better than big valve spec for about 700 notes why the furour over BV spec?
Or is there something else?
Matt
mat350 said:
Being as you could have the heads uprated to better than big valve spec for about 700 notes why the furour over BV spec?
Or is there something else?
Hi Mat,Or is there something else?
I don't know much about Griff's, but I believe there is quite a bit more to a factory big valve than just head work.....
But what do I know, 25 year old wedges are my thing!
Chris.
taz turbo said:
Hi Folks,
My brother is about to sell his Griff 4.3BV, could anyone tell me the value of a genuine factory 4.3 big valve with a comparable 4.0?
Regards,
Chris.
I think the point is they are not comparable.My brother is about to sell his Griff 4.3BV, could anyone tell me the value of a genuine factory 4.3 big valve with a comparable 4.0?
Regards,
Chris.
Furthermore, pre-cats in general are typically attractive only to those in the know for several reasons; your typical first time buyer:
- wants 'biggest' cos it's best
- wants newer/latest model
- wants low mileage
Maybe your brother needs to either accept it's pretty much a select market he's aiming for and may take time to sell at the 'right' price, or just accept that most people will see an older, 'less than a 500' model and pitch it accordingly.
Its impossible to value a 15 year old car simply on specification alone as condition plays such a big part. I would say that a good car might fetch £12k and agree that authenticity of the original '4' BV cars is a littel suspect. A previouas thread got to 11 or 12 cars with authentic paperwork.
I suspect that TVR factory would have confirmed BV status for any car that was converted or built.
I suspect that TVR factory would have confirmed BV status for any car that was converted or built.
As the Griff Growl rolling road showed, there is arguably a negligible or no difference in peak power between a (alleged) BV and a non BV 4.3. Furthermore a healthy 4.3 will give an average 500 a run for its money on peak bhp.
People buy precats because they are revvier and noisier than standard 500s. People buy 500s because they are faster than precats (more torque = quicker acceleration). People modify 500s because they bought a 5 litre but want precat character
Anyway, BV values. There's no point buying any TVR on anything other than condition. So in like for like condition I'd put a 4.3 at £1500 - £2500 more than a 4.0, and a BV at £1000 - £2000 more again. Based on watching the market for 4 years, and speaking to Peninsula about the value of my car for insurance purposes. I don't think in either case you actually get your money's worth, but reputation and exclusivity have their price, apparently.
BVs obviously have Big Valves (although it is reputed that large numbers of non-BV 4.3s have big valves too, as well as '250 bhp' 4.0s (I think?) and all 500s). So Big Valves themselves are not that rare. There are rumours about factory BVs having different cams, ecus, lightened flywheels etc. Nobody really seems to know. Given the lack of clear distinction on the dyno, I'd say a (verifiable)BV is worth more than a non-BV - but not much. A genuine 4.5 on the other hand...
People buy precats because they are revvier and noisier than standard 500s. People buy 500s because they are faster than precats (more torque = quicker acceleration). People modify 500s because they bought a 5 litre but want precat character
Anyway, BV values. There's no point buying any TVR on anything other than condition. So in like for like condition I'd put a 4.3 at £1500 - £2500 more than a 4.0, and a BV at £1000 - £2000 more again. Based on watching the market for 4 years, and speaking to Peninsula about the value of my car for insurance purposes. I don't think in either case you actually get your money's worth, but reputation and exclusivity have their price, apparently.
BVs obviously have Big Valves (although it is reputed that large numbers of non-BV 4.3s have big valves too, as well as '250 bhp' 4.0s (I think?) and all 500s). So Big Valves themselves are not that rare. There are rumours about factory BVs having different cams, ecus, lightened flywheels etc. Nobody really seems to know. Given the lack of clear distinction on the dyno, I'd say a (verifiable)BV is worth more than a non-BV - but not much. A genuine 4.5 on the other hand...
I think the valve size itself is a bit misleading, some of these 430 engines seem to have been blessed with far better porting / blueprinting than later 500s.
Its not just the cc & valve size that dictates the engines character Strangely most 430 owners are fiercely loyal to their engines, we hear of very few disappointed owners or dramas which must count for quite a lot.
Dave
Its not just the cc & valve size that dictates the engines character
Strangely most 430 owners are fiercely loyal to their engines, we hear of very few disappointed owners or dramas which must count for quite a lot.Dave
griffter said:
As the Griff Growl rolling road showed, there is arguably a negligible or no difference in peak power between a (alleged) BV and a non BV 4.3. Furthermore a healthy 4.3 will give an average 500 a run for its money on peak bhp.
People buy precats because they are revvier and noisier than standard 500s. People buy 500s because they are faster than precats (more torque = quicker acceleration). People modify 500s because they bought a 5 litre but want precat character
Anyway, BV values. There's no point buying any TVR on anything other than condition. So in like for like condition I'd put a 4.3 at £1500 - £2500 more than a 4.0, and a BV at £1000 - £2000 more again. Based on watching the market for 4 years, and speaking to Peninsula about the value of my car for insurance purposes. I don't think in either case you actually get your money's worth, but reputation and exclusivity have their price, apparently.
BVs obviously have Big Valves (although it is reputed that large numbers of non-BV 4.3s have big valves too, as well as '250 bhp' 4.0s (I think?) and all 500s). So Big Valves themselves are not that rare. There are rumours about factory BVs having different cams, ecus, lightened flywheels etc. Nobody really seems to know. Given the lack of clear distinction on the dyno, I'd say a (verifiable)BV is worth more than a non-BV - but not much. A genuine 4.5 on the other hand...
Take it the alleged comment is about my '92 factory publicity BV which was the first BV built and this isn't questionable. Anyway, well done to Grover for the higher outputs and us pre cats showng a good few of the 500's up - need to lean the mixture off as it's killing anyone following (as we found out at BNG). Same issues as badredwedge.People buy precats because they are revvier and noisier than standard 500s. People buy 500s because they are faster than precats (more torque = quicker acceleration). People modify 500s because they bought a 5 litre but want precat character
Anyway, BV values. There's no point buying any TVR on anything other than condition. So in like for like condition I'd put a 4.3 at £1500 - £2500 more than a 4.0, and a BV at £1000 - £2000 more again. Based on watching the market for 4 years, and speaking to Peninsula about the value of my car for insurance purposes. I don't think in either case you actually get your money's worth, but reputation and exclusivity have their price, apparently.
BVs obviously have Big Valves (although it is reputed that large numbers of non-BV 4.3s have big valves too, as well as '250 bhp' 4.0s (I think?) and all 500s). So Big Valves themselves are not that rare. There are rumours about factory BVs having different cams, ecus, lightened flywheels etc. Nobody really seems to know. Given the lack of clear distinction on the dyno, I'd say a (verifiable)BV is worth more than a non-BV - but not much. A genuine 4.5 on the other hand...
FFG
FlipFlopGriff said:
Take it the alleged comment is about my '92 factory publicity BV which was the first BV built and this isn't questionable.
No, I wasn't referring to any one car in particular, and certainly not yours. Yours was not the only BV to run, and I was pleased that yours did account for itself well. My point was that unless substantiated, a BV is only 'allegedly' a BV. Mine is 'allegedly' a BV but I'll only believe it when I get the heads off and see it for myself.There are many 'alleged' BVs and very few certain BVs - of which yours, as you point out is unquestionably one. The post is about values and the value of a BV is dependent on the provenance of the claim to being a BV.
Thank you everyone for your replies, it would appear a can of worms has been opened!
The 'authentication' of the car as I said is in the form of aetter from the factory, it goes into great detail of the chassis/engine numbers, colours etc of when it left the factory. My referance to a comparable 4.0 was refering to condition, mileage, history etc. Comparing it to a 4.0 would be like comparing my wedge to an early tasmin, quite different.
The bad news is its being sold as it been replaced with a 911 rag top.... The good news (for everyone here) is my brother took it out for a drive for the first time in a couple of weeks and commented on "how well it drives, great fun, sounds fantastic" hopefull his Porsche ownership will be replaced by something from Blackpool in the not to distant future.
Regards,
Chris.
The 'authentication' of the car as I said is in the form of aetter from the factory, it goes into great detail of the chassis/engine numbers, colours etc of when it left the factory. My referance to a comparable 4.0 was refering to condition, mileage, history etc. Comparing it to a 4.0 would be like comparing my wedge to an early tasmin, quite different.
The bad news is its being sold as it been replaced with a 911 rag top.... The good news (for everyone here) is my brother took it out for a drive for the first time in a couple of weeks and commented on "how well it drives, great fun, sounds fantastic" hopefull his Porsche ownership will be replaced by something from Blackpool in the not to distant future.
Regards,
Chris.
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