Fitting Power Steering
Discussion
I would love to fit power steering to my griff, after driving 1 with it, i realised how better the car drives,, my question is, why cant you take the steering rack off another make, there must be other cars
with the same lengh of rack , or shorten a longer rack,, is there other factors involved,, not being a mechanic im not sure what the problems are,,,
alex
with the same lengh of rack , or shorten a longer rack,, is there other factors involved,, not being a mechanic im not sure what the problems are,,,
alex
You're quite right there's nothing to stop you fitting a rack off a toyota etc etc
You just have to:
Make sure it fits in the space available
Ensure that it can be bolted down to the chassis somehow
Ensure that you can get a steering colummn adpator to fit between the TVR column and the new rack of the correct length and splines
Make up pipes
Fit a power steering pump
Add pulleys to the engine for said pump ( ensure that pump will not be oversped so right sized pulleys required)
Find a new accessory belt of the right length
Make sure the TVR track rod ends will fit the new rack ends
And voila power steering...
Alternatively you could try fitting one of the new electric assisted columns out of a corsa or have a hydraulic still but use an electric pump
Easy peasy
Let us know how you get on
Matt
You just have to:
Make sure it fits in the space available
Ensure that it can be bolted down to the chassis somehow
Ensure that you can get a steering colummn adpator to fit between the TVR column and the new rack of the correct length and splines
Make up pipes
Fit a power steering pump
Add pulleys to the engine for said pump ( ensure that pump will not be oversped so right sized pulleys required)
Find a new accessory belt of the right length
Make sure the TVR track rod ends will fit the new rack ends
And voila power steering...
Alternatively you could try fitting one of the new electric assisted columns out of a corsa or have a hydraulic still but use an electric pump
Easy peasy
Let us know how you get on
Matt
Whenever people post questions asking should they buy a PAS or non-PAS car there are always plenty of posts supporting both opinions.
It comes down to personal preference and the typical driving conditions you're experiencing once the car is over 10mph.
I suspect that the truth is that both are good IF everything is in good order.
If you're finding a huge difference at higher speeds then it may be worth getting the steering and suspension checked out.
You may find you're car needs something putting right and you're comparing to a car that's right.
You may also find there are other differences affecting the feel such suspension upgrades on the other car. They make a big difference.
Fester
It comes down to personal preference and the typical driving conditions you're experiencing once the car is over 10mph.
I suspect that the truth is that both are good IF everything is in good order.
If you're finding a huge difference at higher speeds then it may be worth getting the steering and suspension checked out.
You may find you're car needs something putting right and you're comparing to a car that's right.
You may also find there are other differences affecting the feel such suspension upgrades on the other car. They make a big difference.
Fester
I'm looking to buy a Griff. and most within my budget are non PAS. I want PAS, test driven both so mind is made up.
This is what I think I know.
Choice 1 - fit a TVR PAS rack from a scrap Griff or more likley a Chimp, so are how easy is it to obtain such and is it a straight swap rack for rack. I know I need a pump and it has to be mounted somewhere but if a hydraullic one presents problems there is the electric alternative
Choice 2 - fit an an electric column driven system e.g. Corsa. I'm assumming you can use the TVR rack or even replace this with the Corsa one. The problem seems to be with the torque reaction the motor will present to cars the structure. So the fact that the Corsa system is installed on Dax Cobras how do they get round this issue, both the Griff and Dax being fibreglass seems to present a structural problem as far as mounting is concerned
If I find a PAS car all well and good but I've read the PAS cars are not speed sensitive then there is still merit in investigating Choice 2
This is what I think I know.
Choice 1 - fit a TVR PAS rack from a scrap Griff or more likley a Chimp, so are how easy is it to obtain such and is it a straight swap rack for rack. I know I need a pump and it has to be mounted somewhere but if a hydraullic one presents problems there is the electric alternative
Choice 2 - fit an an electric column driven system e.g. Corsa. I'm assumming you can use the TVR rack or even replace this with the Corsa one. The problem seems to be with the torque reaction the motor will present to cars the structure. So the fact that the Corsa system is installed on Dax Cobras how do they get round this issue, both the Griff and Dax being fibreglass seems to present a structural problem as far as mounting is concerned
If I find a PAS car all well and good but I've read the PAS cars are not speed sensitive then there is still merit in investigating Choice 2
Uncle Fester said:
If you're finding a huge difference at higher speeds then it may be worth getting the steering and suspension checked out.
You may find you're car needs something putting right and you're comparing to a car that's right.
You may also find there are other differences affecting the feel such suspension upgrades on the other car. They make a big difference.
Fester
other car was standard and theres nothing wrong with mine just heavy steering, i spoke to steve heath and he has driven both round a track and said its easier to control with power steering and lot less tiring,, when i park my car on the drive i have to manouvre it into place by going forward and back 3 times, im getting arms like arny,, wife says shame the rest of you doesnt ,, You may find you're car needs something putting right and you're comparing to a car that's right.
You may also find there are other differences affecting the feel such suspension upgrades on the other car. They make a big difference.
Fester
alex
waggy said:
...i spoke to steve heath and he has driven both round a track and said its easier to control with power steering and lot less tiring...
alex
Totally agree with what he said, also the PAS rack has a quicker lock to lock. alex
I was reasonably happy with non pas until I started doing track days and found it difficult to catch the car when it twitched (exiting corners facing the wrong way on more than one occasion). So I decided to retro fit the factory std rack and pump and it totally transformed the way I can control the car on the limit.
I don't have the muscle strength I used to have due to past illness so not everyone will have the same view as me.
Chimp & Griff rack, pump and ancillaries are interchangable, and the pump is a std rangie P38 pump if you go for a serpentine engine Griff.
What you will need to be aware of when switching a car from non pas is that the lower steering column section is shorter and the bottom UJ is different (you can get both from TVRCarparts).
Pre-Serp cars are not so easy and most conversions i have seem have used a Peugeot 106 or similar electric pump.
Edited to add - pumps are not a problem to source, its the PAS racks that are very scarse at the moment which I guess is why choice 2 is being talked about lately.
Edited by Bluebottle on Saturday 8th September 22:53
Bluebottle said:
waggy said:
...i spoke to steve heath and he has driven both round a track and said its easier to control with power steering and lot less tiring...
alex
Totally agree with what he said, also the PAS rack has a quicker lock to lock. alex
I was reasonably happy with non pas until I started doing track days and found it difficult to catch the car when it twitched (exiting corners facing the wrong way on more than one occasion). So I decided to retro fit the factory std rack and pump and it totally transformed the way I can control the car on the limit.
I don't have the muscle strength I used to have due to past illness so not everyone will have the same view as me.
Chimp & Griff rack, pump and ancillaries are interchangable, and the pump is a std rangie P38 pump if you go for a serpentine engine Griff.
What you will need to be aware of when switching a car from non pas is that the lower steering column section is shorter and the bottom UJ is different (you can get both from TVRCarparts).
Pre-Serp cars are not so easy and most conversions i have seem have used a Peugeot 106 or similar electric pump.
Edited to add - pumps are not a problem to source, its the PAS racks that are very scarse at the moment which I guess is why choice 2 is being talked about lately.
Edited by Bluebottle on Saturday 8th September 22:53
Personally, I have PAS and prefer it, but it wasn't vital when I was looking for the car. Peraps it's because I dwarf said brick outhouse.
My car needed the suspension doing. Shocks and springs were original.
I did the lot, Steve's drop links, Nitrons, track springs, polybushes, new wisbones and a lot more.
The first rabble that did the work missed the worn ball joints and refitted them.
It still handled wrong.
All the fancy bits do make a big difference but just making sure the basics are right is your starting point.
Keep it simple. It will spring at first,
Fester
350Matt said:
You're quite right there's nothing to stop you fitting a rack off a toyota etc etc
You just have to:
Make sure it fits in the space available
Ensure that it can be bolted down to the chassis somehow
Ensure that you can get a steering colummn adpator to fit between the TVR column and the new rack of the correct length and splines
Make up pipes
Fit a power steering pump
Add pulleys to the engine for said pump ( ensure that pump will not be oversped so right sized pulleys required)
Find a new accessory belt of the right length
Make sure the TVR track rod ends will fit the new rack ends
And voila power steering...
Alternatively you could try fitting one of the new electric assisted columns out of a corsa or have a hydraulic still but use an electric pump
Easy peasy
Let us know how you get on
Matt
Don't you need to be a bit careful here - I thought you would need a rack with the same length internal rack - and the same length track rods. If for example the rack was slightly longer and the track rods slightly shorter wouldn't it bugger up the steering geometry when you go over bumps? You just have to:
Make sure it fits in the space available
Ensure that it can be bolted down to the chassis somehow
Ensure that you can get a steering colummn adpator to fit between the TVR column and the new rack of the correct length and splines
Make up pipes
Fit a power steering pump
Add pulleys to the engine for said pump ( ensure that pump will not be oversped so right sized pulleys required)
Find a new accessory belt of the right length
Make sure the TVR track rod ends will fit the new rack ends
And voila power steering...
Alternatively you could try fitting one of the new electric assisted columns out of a corsa or have a hydraulic still but use an electric pump
Easy peasy
Let us know how you get on
Matt
Providing the rack axis is correct you shouldn't have any problems with bump steer, I think my non PAS Griff suffers a bit from this in any case so with a bit of care you can probably improve on what the factory did in any case.
But you are right in that the rack has to be the right length as well, I also forgot to mention the extension of the rack is also important to avoid wheels granching into wishbones etc.
I think the best route ( is these rack strapped days) is the Corsa column with the std rack providing the column mounts are up to the task or can be reinforced to cope.
I've driven an Escort with this conversion and it was pretty good, no loss of feel and you can set the effort just so.
Matt
But you are right in that the rack has to be the right length as well, I also forgot to mention the extension of the rack is also important to avoid wheels granching into wishbones etc.
I think the best route ( is these rack strapped days) is the Corsa column with the std rack providing the column mounts are up to the task or can be reinforced to cope.
I've driven an Escort with this conversion and it was pretty good, no loss of feel and you can set the effort just so.
Matt
I'm interested in what Bluebottle quoted in a similar post i.e 'better stability at high speeds from the natural damping effect of the PAS'. Is this an effect resulting from the hydraullic action? So would you loose this effect (positive benefit as far as I am concerned) with an electric column system driving the non PAS rack? Having driven PAS and non PAS cars I'm sold on the former but if I have to make a conversion I would not want to loose the damping effect.
Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff