95kg of pressure on brake pedal!!!
Discussion
While watching the race yesterday they commented that the stop into turn number 1 at the end of the straight required 95kg of pressure on the brake pedal. I was, quite frankly, amazed at this!
To anyone who's ever worked out in a gym, 95kg is abig amount on your legs. On one leg, it's even bigger!
Was this fact correct? If so, it truly is astounding!
To anyone who's ever worked out in a gym, 95kg is abig amount on your legs. On one leg, it's even bigger!
Was this fact correct? If so, it truly is astounding!
That does sound a bit ridiculous. However fit you are, applying that amount of pressure to a pedal is bound to take the edge off your accurately ability to control the pressure you're applying. Why on earth would they under-servo the cars so much, it's not as if the drivers need massive feel at 10% braking because they never (or rarely) brake at 10%?
skeggysteve said:
The 95kg I can believe.
But as, Martin pointed out, the force you apply to the pedal is increased by the lever (for want of a better word) effect. So you don't have to apply 95kgs of push to the pedal.
Yeah, what he said.But as, Martin pointed out, the force you apply to the pedal is increased by the lever (for want of a better word) effect. So you don't have to apply 95kgs of push to the pedal.
it is 95Kg of pressure applied to the brake system, the amount applied to the pedal is much less as it's a lever.
Probably still a large effort, but Allen certainly was talking nonsense about the 'try it at the gym'
He said "95kg of force on the brake pedal" but did he really mean the brake system has 95kg of force applied to it (for example the piston clamping the discs...which I would imagine would be too little amount of force) or perhaps that the pedal assemblie's output had 95kg of force?
So then using leverage calcs it would end up more like 20 kg (which would make sense)....?!
So then using leverage calcs it would end up more like 20 kg (which would make sense)....?!
TonyHetherington said:
What did MB say?
"Shut it James, don't be such a bloody cock and listen to yourself for once. You are a national laughing stock and I for one can't believe I manage to sit here for 2 hrs a day up to 17 times a year. No wonder I sometimes take a holiday on race weekends. I mean it's not as if I don't know when the races are that I can't plan my holidays around the races. Are you taking the hint?"Ha ha ha....James Allen is like a hero-worshipping shoolboy trying to justify his unhealthy obsession with F1 drivers and their 'super powers'.
They are nearly all slim little fellows who are fairly fit, but he wants to make out that they are the ultimate strength sportsmen.
What a very sad man you are Mr Allen.
They are nearly all slim little fellows who are fairly fit, but he wants to make out that they are the ultimate strength sportsmen.
What a very sad man you are Mr Allen.
TonyHetherington said:
He said "95kg of force on the brake pedal" but did he really mean the brake system has 95kg of force applied to it (for example the piston clamping the discs...which I would imagine would be too little amount of force) or perhaps that the pedal assemblie's output had 95kg of force?
So then using leverage calcs it would end up more like 20 kg (which would make sense)....?!
yeah thats pretty much the long and short of it Tony.So then using leverage calcs it would end up more like 20 kg (which would make sense)....?!
frazer guest said:
FourWheelDrift said:
TonyHetherington said:
What did MB say?
"Shut it James, don't be such a bloody cock and listen to yourself for once. You are a national laughing stock and I for one can't believe I manage to sit here for 2 hrs a day up to 17 times a year. No wonder I sometimes take a holiday on race weekends. I mean it's not as if I don't know when the races are that I can't plan my holidays around the races. Are you taking the hint dickhead?"
Oh how I wish he had said that.
As soon as the muppet started to talkabout it I thought he's talking rubbish and disregarded anything he said on the subject. He really needs to get out more. Can you imagine the technical F1 guys just feeding him rubbish to see if he'll say it on air. I bet they have a nice bet each race to see who's rubbish statistics he mentions."Yes, the engine in David Coulthard's car is using solid mercury pistons"....
I imagine even 20kg, at each corner for varying durations, for an hour and a half, combined with all the other forces and, of course, having to race the car, is no mean feat.
But yes, I did start to wonder why the drivers didn't all have legs like Obafemi Martins if the 95kg analogy was true.
Another classic cock-ism was when he said "there are still a few more GP's left to go this season..."
Oh REALLY? Of course, with all the times in F1 history when the season has ended in early September at Monza, the viewing public might be forgiven for thinking this was the do-or-die title decider, so thanks for that James.
And, with respect to Lewis for a great move on Kimi - I didn't think it was worth the ejaculation of praise from Allen either. If Lewis had really wanted to "show just what he's made of", then perhaps he'd have been a little closer to fighting with his main title rival for victory, rather than getting caught up in Ferrari tactics and having to rescue second place.
But yes, I did start to wonder why the drivers didn't all have legs like Obafemi Martins if the 95kg analogy was true.
Another classic cock-ism was when he said "there are still a few more GP's left to go this season..."
Oh REALLY? Of course, with all the times in F1 history when the season has ended in early September at Monza, the viewing public might be forgiven for thinking this was the do-or-die title decider, so thanks for that James.
And, with respect to Lewis for a great move on Kimi - I didn't think it was worth the ejaculation of praise from Allen either. If Lewis had really wanted to "show just what he's made of", then perhaps he'd have been a little closer to fighting with his main title rival for victory, rather than getting caught up in Ferrari tactics and having to rescue second place.
"Stuismyname said:
And, with respect to Lewis for a great move on Kimi - I didn't think it was worth the ejaculation of praise from Allen either. If Lewis had really wanted to "show just what he's made of", then perhaps he'd have been a little closer to fighting with his main title rival for victory, rather than getting caught up in Ferrari tactics and having to rescue second place.
I think Lewis did a very good job actually, since I doubt Alonso is sharing much info with Lewis's side of the garage so Lewis's setup might have been the McLaren base plus his own preferences. A combination not a good as Alonso's but in the end not far off.Monza is a circuit where the setup is more critica. There's not that much a driver can do to go faster (they can't push the throttle down any further or brake later) unlike other circuits where lines and corner apex and exit speed can vary more. Monza is foot to the floor throttle with 2 very hard stops, 2 medium speed stops and 2 medium speed corners. Not a lot of places to grab a tenth or two.
Alonso with his experience of racing there more clearly got his car setup to be better over the sharp kerbs of the chicanes and better grip through Parabolica. He would have been able to be on the throttle earlier and gain the little time advantage he got which from what I could see was where he was better in the race.
TonyHetherington said:
To anyone who's ever worked out in a gym, 95kg is abig amount on your legs. On one leg, it's even bigger!
To be honest I can believe the 95kgs pressure on the pedal too. Most people of half reasonable fitness are capable of standing on one leg and going up on tiptoe a few times, which is lifting ~80kgs on average just with the ankle joint I would think?!Doing a squat lifting 95kgs in the gym is 95kgs plus your own weight, and its done at a much greater knee angle which is always the difficult bit to get past, if you used one of the sit down machines and adjusted the foot pads so your legs were say at 20 degrees bend rather than ~90 as you'd normally start off, you'd be able to shift a much higher weight.
Munter said:
frazer guest said:
FourWheelDrift said:
TonyHetherington said:
What did MB say?
"Shut it James, don't be such a bloody cock and listen to yourself for once. You are a national laughing stock and I for one can't believe I manage to sit here for 2 hrs a day up to 17 times a year. No wonder I sometimes take a holiday on race weekends. I mean it's not as if I don't know when the races are that I can't plan my holidays around the races. Are you taking the hint dickhead?" Oh how I wish he had said that. As soon as the muppet started to talkabout it I thought he's talking rubbish and disregarded anything he said on the subject. He really needs to get out more. Can you imagine the technical F1 guys just feeding him rubbish to see if he'll say it on air. I bet they have a nice bet each race to see who's rubbish statistics he mentions."Yes, the engine in David Coulthard's car is using solid mercury pistons"....
Race brake systems often are setup using a cylinder bore size of 0.625" and aim to use a 5:1 leverage ratio on the pedal. With a 50lb pedal load you would see a line presure of 814psi (56BAR). You can alter the line presure to pedal presure ratio by altering the master cylinder bore and the pedal leverage ratio, then fine tune the front/rear bias with the bias bar adjuster and relative cylinder sizes. You often run lower rear line presures, but on a mid engined car these tend to be fairly closely matched front/rear, you run more rear line presure in the wet than dry, relative to the front presures.
The calipers tend to use larger front piston surface area than rear, so the efective force on the pad is also varied for the same line presure front/rear.
The calipers tend to use larger front piston surface area than rear, so the efective force on the pad is also varied for the same line presure front/rear.
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