Winter tyres? worth it or not on an Exige S2
Discussion
I run a set of road tyres Conti Sport 2, not the best tyres but adequate for road use. It definitely makes a huge difference in (no particular order):
1)comfort, no tramlining esp in town on crappy roads
2)safety, no longer a issue during downpour esp. on M'ways!!
3)cost, save my 48's for track days where I get the full benefit of the rubbers
I have a spare set of TD alloys for the 48's so it's easy to change over when I attend a track day
1)comfort, no tramlining esp in town on crappy roads
2)safety, no longer a issue during downpour esp. on M'ways!!
3)cost, save my 48's for track days where I get the full benefit of the rubbers
I have a spare set of TD alloys for the 48's so it's easy to change over when I attend a track day
chip* said:
I run a set of road tyres Conti Sport 2, not the best tyres but adequate for road use. It definitely makes a huge difference in (no particular order):
1)comfort, no tramlining esp in town on crappy roads
2)safety, no longer a issue during downpour esp. on M'ways!!
3)cost, save my 48's for track days where I get the full benefit of the rubbers
I have a spare set of TD alloys for the 48's so it's easy to change over when I attend a track day
spot on - A048s are barely worth using on the road anyway - you struggle to get them up to the temperatures where you can use that extra 10% they give over say an A039 1)comfort, no tramlining esp in town on crappy roads
2)safety, no longer a issue during downpour esp. on M'ways!!
3)cost, save my 48's for track days where I get the full benefit of the rubbers
I have a spare set of TD alloys for the 48's so it's easy to change over when I attend a track day
I have 2 sets of wheels - R888s and A039s for winter ...being sat with the lorries on the inside lane of a sodden motorway doing 50mph and still skipping about through big puddles is not much fun
...remember A048s start with 5mm tread, so its likely that come winter you have 3-4mm of tread on a tyre that is not designed to clear water - not a good combo 111KAB said:
Good idea, particularly if you can afford a 2nd set of alloys so that swop over costs are low. Trouble is knowing when to do the change over.
111KAB
I have been thinking about it, compomotive sell a set of alloy (Victory Like) for £600ish...111KAB
Put a good set of Yoko or R888 on these and a set of winter tyres on normal wheels.
Well a set of T1R would do the job all the year (considering my driving skills
) bogie's the man to answer that one from experience, but IIRC they're a similar compound so draw your own conclusions.
If you want a cheaper alternative that performs well on the roads try Toyo T1R's. I have run these for ~8k miles and find them perfectly acceptable on the road. You do lose a modicum of feel at centre, but contrary to what some people will have you believe, they don't "ruin the feel of the car".
If you want a cheaper alternative that performs well on the roads try Toyo T1R's. I have run these for ~8k miles and find them perfectly acceptable on the road. You do lose a modicum of feel at centre, but contrary to what some people will have you believe, they don't "ruin the feel of the car".
I have had to go for another set of AO48's as no one seems to have A039's at the moment and I got a nail in my rear yesterday - I am going to see if I can get another set of alloys with AO39's on for the winter later in the year until then I will pray it doesn't rain. It may work out cheaper to buy an old banger to use for a grand who knows.
When I ran the 993 with Dunlop SSRs for summer and trackdays I also used to drive it down to Switzerland to ski in the winter, and winter tyres were full-on mandatory. I bought a set of Pirelli Snowsport proper winter tyres (sipes, deep tread, rated to 150 mph though). They were an absolute revelation. They were no good on hardpack on top of ice (my cousin's fiancee couldn't read a GPS-equipped map system on a laptop (!!!!!) so we got lost in the mountains which hadn't been cleared) where chains really were necessary, but everywhere else they were fantastic.
The biggest bonus was in wet, cold English winter. Forget snow and ice, it's not that common here. But the Snowsports had really deep tread and a soft-as-buggery compound that cleared the deepest of puddles and gripped even when the road temperature was only around 1 degree Celcius.
On that car, I swapped from SSRs to Snowsports every winter (usually November to March) - it allowed me to drive the car enthusiastically during winter, breakaway was progressive, you could even drift the car without snappiness. This was a supercharged 911 so plenty of torque. I was an absolute convert to the cause of winter tyres.
The difference in feel was very marked though. The SSRs were very pointy at the front and there was minimal sidewall flex so great for track. The winters did flex more, but equally they were more predictable and *really* friendly for throwing the car around.
So what does this mean for the Elise? The A039 IIRC is just as expensive as an A048R and has just as high a wear rate, but just has better water clearance. It's not a 'winter tyre' as such unless I'm mistaken - it has no sipes and the tread is not hugely deeper. I'm assuming you're talking about winter in the UK here and not winter alpine jaunts (which would be fairly unadvisable in an aluminium chassised car with the liberal use of road salt, my 911 got severe corrosion on the bumper outriggers from one very salty drive to Verbier and back). Winter in the UK is all about deep rain, the odd bit of leaf mulch and cold road surface temperatures.
As a result, Scandinavia-spec snow tyres are a waste of time on an Elise / Exige / VX purely because we're not really going to encounter the conditions, and besides, the heater in my VXT is so bloody poor that I'd need to wear ski thermals and would have trouble operating the controls in ski boots.
IIRC the trackday tyres (A048R, R888) are optimised for road temps well in excess of 7 deg C and anything below this is sub-optimal. The Pirelli Snowsports were designed for less than 7 deg C. I don't think the A039 is a 'proper' winter tyre.
So as a winter tyre convert, I'd be interested in a tyre that works well in the winter - to me that means *deep* tread, more flexible sidewall, and maybe a few sipes for the odd icy day. Driving like a pansy on summer trackday tyres is an option but it's a risky option and you don't end up enjoying the car. You may as well take the 'sensible' car (yes there are a few Elise and VX owners whose cars are only-cars and daily drivers, but if you can afford an Exige then you can afford a winter banger).
However I like to enjoy my car in winter too - and cold, clear winter days make mine significantly faster (as anyone who's had anything with a turbo will understand
) - but I'm sure as hell not running my current R888s in January.
Soooo..... long ramble but no answer. I have two sets of rims, but my TDs have the R888s on in Elise sizes (I've got a VXT with the silly OEM 17" fronts). These wheels are light and I *love* the handling response (aggressive and twitchy as hell in a straight line but it's like on rails on 90+ mph cornering - I think the previous owner had messed about with camber on my particular VXT because everyone else says the VXT is soft and lardy... mine is sharper than my old S1 Elise).
I don't particularly want to buy another set of TDs for them to get wrecked throughout winter, though I understand there's an Astra 16" front that looks a bit like a VXT wheel that I can use (VXs have 5 bolt hubs, Elises have 4 bolt hubs).
The reason why I'm boring you Lotus owners with Vauxhall talk is that the Europa has the same hubs as the VXT. The Europa wheels are IMO beautiful - I was considering a set for my VXT but Lotus wanted £1600 for a set or something insulting so I passed on the offer. But the Europa has the same 17" front as the VXT. This, coupled with the fact that Lotus are targeting the Europa at more of a 'touring' audience, suggests that Lotus may offer a 'proper' winter tyre (like a Snowsport) for European use of the Europa???? Or am I thinking logically, which is not 'the Lotus way' ???? Does anyone here who works for a Lotus dealer know if Lotus have arranged for a 'proper' winter tyre to be available in Europa (i.e. VXT) sizes?
So to condense it down to a short sentence. If you want to *enjoy* your car safely in winter then a proper winter tyre is brilliant - for UK use it's all about tread depth, water clearance and compound performance on cold tarmac. Forget snow performance or ice i.e. Scandinavia-spec tyres as that's not an issue here. A good 'performance winter' tyre like the Snowsport is rated to 150 mph, at which speed I have tested on a 0-1 deg C empty, sunny French autoroute. Safe as houses. The question is whether Lotus offer one - my mate's S2 Elise brochure has a list of Lotus-supplied tyres and a 'winter tyre' is listed but I don't know what it is. I checked last winter and Pirelli Snowsports *weren't* available in Lotus sizes.
If there is a proper winter tyre but only in Elise sizes then I'll probably get a set of Astra wheels from a scrappy for mine and swap from the TDs. For you Exige drivers, I'd suggest getting a cheap set of wheels and 'proper' winters rather than A039s if you really want to enjoy your driving in the winter. Or pack it away and use a winter hack car. The A039 is a wet race tyre, I don't think it's optimised for cold tarmac temps.
If I'm wrong about the A039 then please correct me, but it seems awfully expensive and not really targeted at winter use - more for rainy trackdays, no?
The biggest bonus was in wet, cold English winter. Forget snow and ice, it's not that common here. But the Snowsports had really deep tread and a soft-as-buggery compound that cleared the deepest of puddles and gripped even when the road temperature was only around 1 degree Celcius.
On that car, I swapped from SSRs to Snowsports every winter (usually November to March) - it allowed me to drive the car enthusiastically during winter, breakaway was progressive, you could even drift the car without snappiness. This was a supercharged 911 so plenty of torque. I was an absolute convert to the cause of winter tyres.
The difference in feel was very marked though. The SSRs were very pointy at the front and there was minimal sidewall flex so great for track. The winters did flex more, but equally they were more predictable and *really* friendly for throwing the car around.
So what does this mean for the Elise? The A039 IIRC is just as expensive as an A048R and has just as high a wear rate, but just has better water clearance. It's not a 'winter tyre' as such unless I'm mistaken - it has no sipes and the tread is not hugely deeper. I'm assuming you're talking about winter in the UK here and not winter alpine jaunts (which would be fairly unadvisable in an aluminium chassised car with the liberal use of road salt, my 911 got severe corrosion on the bumper outriggers from one very salty drive to Verbier and back). Winter in the UK is all about deep rain, the odd bit of leaf mulch and cold road surface temperatures.
As a result, Scandinavia-spec snow tyres are a waste of time on an Elise / Exige / VX purely because we're not really going to encounter the conditions, and besides, the heater in my VXT is so bloody poor that I'd need to wear ski thermals and would have trouble operating the controls in ski boots.
IIRC the trackday tyres (A048R, R888) are optimised for road temps well in excess of 7 deg C and anything below this is sub-optimal. The Pirelli Snowsports were designed for less than 7 deg C. I don't think the A039 is a 'proper' winter tyre.
So as a winter tyre convert, I'd be interested in a tyre that works well in the winter - to me that means *deep* tread, more flexible sidewall, and maybe a few sipes for the odd icy day. Driving like a pansy on summer trackday tyres is an option but it's a risky option and you don't end up enjoying the car. You may as well take the 'sensible' car (yes there are a few Elise and VX owners whose cars are only-cars and daily drivers, but if you can afford an Exige then you can afford a winter banger).
However I like to enjoy my car in winter too - and cold, clear winter days make mine significantly faster (as anyone who's had anything with a turbo will understand
) - but I'm sure as hell not running my current R888s in January.Soooo..... long ramble but no answer. I have two sets of rims, but my TDs have the R888s on in Elise sizes (I've got a VXT with the silly OEM 17" fronts). These wheels are light and I *love* the handling response (aggressive and twitchy as hell in a straight line but it's like on rails on 90+ mph cornering - I think the previous owner had messed about with camber on my particular VXT because everyone else says the VXT is soft and lardy... mine is sharper than my old S1 Elise).
I don't particularly want to buy another set of TDs for them to get wrecked throughout winter, though I understand there's an Astra 16" front that looks a bit like a VXT wheel that I can use (VXs have 5 bolt hubs, Elises have 4 bolt hubs).
The reason why I'm boring you Lotus owners with Vauxhall talk is that the Europa has the same hubs as the VXT. The Europa wheels are IMO beautiful - I was considering a set for my VXT but Lotus wanted £1600 for a set or something insulting so I passed on the offer. But the Europa has the same 17" front as the VXT. This, coupled with the fact that Lotus are targeting the Europa at more of a 'touring' audience, suggests that Lotus may offer a 'proper' winter tyre (like a Snowsport) for European use of the Europa???? Or am I thinking logically, which is not 'the Lotus way' ???? Does anyone here who works for a Lotus dealer know if Lotus have arranged for a 'proper' winter tyre to be available in Europa (i.e. VXT) sizes?
So to condense it down to a short sentence. If you want to *enjoy* your car safely in winter then a proper winter tyre is brilliant - for UK use it's all about tread depth, water clearance and compound performance on cold tarmac. Forget snow performance or ice i.e. Scandinavia-spec tyres as that's not an issue here. A good 'performance winter' tyre like the Snowsport is rated to 150 mph, at which speed I have tested on a 0-1 deg C empty, sunny French autoroute. Safe as houses. The question is whether Lotus offer one - my mate's S2 Elise brochure has a list of Lotus-supplied tyres and a 'winter tyre' is listed but I don't know what it is. I checked last winter and Pirelli Snowsports *weren't* available in Lotus sizes.
If there is a proper winter tyre but only in Elise sizes then I'll probably get a set of Astra wheels from a scrappy for mine and swap from the TDs. For you Exige drivers, I'd suggest getting a cheap set of wheels and 'proper' winters rather than A039s if you really want to enjoy your driving in the winter. Or pack it away and use a winter hack car. The A039 is a wet race tyre, I don't think it's optimised for cold tarmac temps.
If I'm wrong about the A039 then please correct me, but it seems awfully expensive and not really targeted at winter use - more for rainy trackdays, no?
yes - the A039 is not a "winter" tyre ...but we dont have real winters here in the UK anymore ..so it offers good all round performance wet or dry - if you only wanted to run one tyre all year around, and still be able to do trackdays etc then thats it - thats why I run it in winter.
I wouldnt go out in snow in an Elise/Exige with any tyre on if I had the choice
..so it offers good all round performance wet or dry - if you only wanted to run one tyre all year around, and still be able to do trackdays etc then thats it - thats why I run it in winter.I wouldnt go out in snow in an Elise/Exige with any tyre on if I had the choice
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