Richard "Hamster" Hammond crashes again!

[carreraboy]

Hope he's OK...

[carreraboy]

Just seen Britcar 24 no doubt will make good TV Copy....

[Steve Rance]

Sorry, i'm sure it makes great TV to send novices out in an old desil at the biggest meeting in the UK but it sure weren't fun sharing the circuit with them. Trying to lap a car 40 seconds slower than you in the night in the fog being driven by someone who doesn't know what they are doing is downright scary. Hammond turned in on Vergers driving the Chad Mosler effectively putting him out of the race. £150k running budget blown by a driver completely out of his depth.

I'm sure that BBC viewers will find the edited program highly entertaining, even if the car did finish over 250 laps behind the winner. I doubt that the teams and drivers that had their races ballsed up by what was effectively a cheap publicity stunt will see it quite the same way.

Steve R

[Lurking Lawyer]

I sympathise with all of what you say, Steve, but am I correct in assuming that you had to hold some form of racing licence to compete, which presumably the TG team had (albeit not something I'd guess they use very often)?

I suppose my point is that if they meet the entry criteria, there's not a lot you can do about their lack of experience/ability, is there? Everyone has to start somewhere, so presumably there will always be a proportion of n00bs getting in the way of the old hands who are altogether more talented and/or experienced....? Is it not just one of the usual racing issues?

[Steve Rance]

I hear what you say. You dont need a licence to climb everest anyone can try it but would be completely stupid if you did. I understand that Clarkson et al got thier race licenses on Friday. No testing, no minor club races, no nothing just straight into a huge event against some of the fastest GT cars and quickest drivers in the country. Speaking as a competitor, it made a dangerous mockery of the whole event.

Steve

Edited by Steve Rance on Tuesday 11th September 16:04

[fastfreddy]

Steve Rance said:

I hear what you say. You dont need a licence to climb everest anyone can try it but would be completely stupid if you did. I understand that Clarkson et al got thier race licenses on Friday. No testing, no minor club races, no nothing just straight into a huge event against some of the fastest GT cars and quickest drivers in the country. Speaking as a comprtitor, it made a dangerous mockery of the whole event.

Steve

Let's hope whoever signed off their ARDS tests is free of guilt...

There must be a lesson to be learnt here though. Surely no driver who has to have a novice cross on their car should be allowed to enter a race of this type?

[carreraboy]

Steve Rance said:

Sorry, i'm sure it makes great TV to send novices out in an old desil at the biggest meeting in the UK but it sure weren't fun sharing the circuit with them. Trying to lap a car 40 seconds slower than you in the night in the fog being driven by someone who doesn't know what they are doing is downright scary. Hammond turned in on Vergers driving the Chad Mosler effectively putting him out of the race. £150k running budget blown by a driver completely out of his depth.

I'm sure that BBC viewers will find the edited program highly entertaining, even if the car did finish over 250 laps behind the winner. I doubt that the teams and drivers that had their races ballsed up by what was effectively a cheap publicity stunt will see it quite the same way.

Steve R

Totally sympathise, surely he would need a race licence?

[Paul Dishman]

carreraboy said:

Steve Rance said:

Sorry, i'm sure it makes great TV to send novices out in an old desil at the biggest meeting in the UK but it sure weren't fun sharing the circuit with them. Trying to lap a car 40 seconds slower than you in the night in the fog being driven by someone who doesn't know what they are doing is downright scary. Hammond turned in on Vergers driving the Chad Mosler effectively putting him out of the race. £150k running budget blown by a driver completely out of his depth.

I'm sure that BBC viewers will find the edited program highly entertaining, even if the car did finish over 250 laps behind the winner. I doubt that the teams and drivers that had their races ballsed up by what was effectively a cheap publicity stunt will see it quite the same way.

Steve R

Totally sympathise, surely he would need a race licence?

They all had race licences,Des, but their real problem is lack of racing experience to avoid the sort of situation that Steve describes you need the racing miles under your belt.

[silver996]

I've done 3 trackdays so am obviously well qualified to comment, but if the guys had the necessary race licence and weren't outright dangerous, what can you do? you've got to get experience somehow

[Paul Dishman]

silver996 said:

I've done 3 trackdays so am obviously well qualified to comment, but if the guys had the necessary race licence and weren't outright dangerous, what can you do? you've got to get experience somehow

They could have entered some of the shorter Britcar races earlier in the year to gain experience of racing in the series

[Steve Rance]

like I said, if you want be a climber, you dont start at everest. If you want to be a race driver, you dont start at a huge 24 hour event. The BBC car was an accident waiting to happen and we didn't have to wait long. It was just plain idiotic to enter the car. To make matters worse it was almost a bog standard BMW Desil with 40k miles on the clock.

I can assure you that you wouldn't be so pragmatic about it if you were turning into Bridge corner in the fog flat in 4th when the BBC car just turns in on you.

[hunter 66]

Steve I suppose they wanted the promotion of the event to increase apppeal with the public.But it may lead to many thinking lets get an old heap do the ARDS and go racing in the 24 hr and then there will be problems.
A laugh is one thing but it costs others their races and could be dangerous,amd all you have said is true.
Anyway well done Steve,Pete, Craig and HF and the others you had avery busy weekend.

[thegoose]

Observers/marshalls are supposed to see stuff like this and report it. Was anyone from the team ever called to Race Control for anything?

• Playing Devil's Advocate**, the usual line in Driver's Briefings is for slower cars to drive their normal racing line and it's the faster car's job to find a way round. Also, once you've seen what they behave like when you lap them, you are fore-warned of how they may behave next time and you will also see the novice cross every time.

[DSM2]

I think the situation here may well have been aggravated by the characters concerned. I know most of it is to put a TV show together but I get the feeling that these three, along with several other TV motor show presenters, confuse the ability to tailslide a car in the wide open spaces with being able to drive well enough to race safely.

The fact is, as we have once again seen, that when you put them out with a group of experienced racers, they are sadly lacking in both speed and the ability to race whilst still retaining some mental capacity to know what is going on around them.

It annoys me that the MSA will crack down on the most innocuous misdemeanour of a serious racer, but allow clowns (for that is what they truly are) to get away with this type of stunt.

[thegoose]

FWIW there were four of them - The Stig was there too, who presumably knows how to behave on track, or at least should do.

[Paul Dishman]

thegoose said:

Observers/marshalls are supposed to see stuff like this and report it. Was anyone from the team ever called to Race Control for anything?

• Playing Devil's Advocate**, the usual line in Driver's Briefings is for slower cars to drive their normal racing line and it's the faster car's job to find a way round. Also, once you've seen what they behave like when you lap them, you are fore-warned of how they may behave next time and you will also see the novice cross every time.

Everytime a car spins the nearest Marshalls post will radio and tell Race Control that car number x span and continued or is stuck in the gravel so that the Coc can see if someones having a problem. They can call the team manager to RC and tell what action they want taking.

You are correct in that it is the overtakers responsiblity and that the driver being overtaken should stick to the racing line, but in a long race and during the night people get tired and make mistakes so this sort of racing incident happens. We have had incidents in previous 24 hour races when professional drivers who should really know better give novices no room at all and trigger shunts which ruin their own and other peoples races so this can cut both ways.

Personally I wouldn't have driven in the race if I had the TG teams degree of experience, however it was the most experienced driver who had the accident.

[thegoose]

Paul Dishman said:

.....however it was the most experienced driver who had the accident.

I thought Hammond had the crash and I thought Stig was the most experienced?

[Nurburgsingh]

I love the way my Licence fee is getting spent!!!

thegoose said:

• Playing Devil's Advocate**, the usual line in Driver's Briefings is for slower cars to drive their normal racing line and it's the faster car's job to find a way round. Also, once you've seen what they behave like when you lap them, you are fore-warned of how they may behave next time and you will also see the novice cross every time.

Having been one of the 'competitors' at the weekend I didnt think that the TG team were much of an problem... maybe I was lucky in that I only arrived behind them on the exit of Chapel and had the whole of Hanger to get by without drama.

For the most part the faster cars were well behaved, they flashed their lights as they approached and I not once got taken on the inside of a corner, they always waited until the next straight and lets face it Silverstone has got loads of them!!
and for the record it wasnt just the "novices" that were behaving badly... our most experienced driver was run off the track by another 'experieced' driver and it cost us 2 rims and about 15mins in an unscheduled pitstop.

As unfortunate as it was for the CHAD Mosler, it was at the end of the day a racing incident and nothing more... We're all big boys ( and girls ) and we all know the risks of undertaking such a massive event that could all be over by the end of the first corner.

[Pugsey]

Steve Rance said:

I hear what you say. You dont need a licence to climb everest anyone can try it but would be completely stupid if you did. I understand that Clarkson et al got thier race licenses on Friday. No testing, no minor club races, no nothing just straight into a huge event against some of the fastest GT cars and quickest drivers in the country. Speaking as a competitor, it made a dangerous mockery of the whole event.

Steve

Edited by Steve Rance on Tuesday 11th September 16:04

Good grief! - I somehow assumed you needed Nat A licence for this event!

[Paul Dishman]

thegoose said:

Paul Dishman said:

.....however it was the most experienced driver who had the accident.

I thought Hammond had the crash and I thought Stig was the most experienced?

Sorry, I meant to say that it was the most experienced of the three presenters!
Thats what you get for reading PH between prescriptions