Failed Paint Correction
Discussion
Just had a chap come over and try to give my Defender a machine polish to remover some swirl marks from the paint and he was unable to do it. He had given the car a full valet and this was the last stage.
He said that the pad was just bouncing off the cars paint work and he did not want to go on and ruin the paintwork. Sorry to be a little vague but am a little new to the is detailling lark and was wandering if anyone could maybe explain why this happened. I have never had any form of paint protection/sealant applied so don't knwo why this is happening.
Also is there anyone out there that would give my car a proper detail, I have spoken to 2 companies and they have said no...........which surprised me.......it may be a Defender but it is still worthy of a detail now and then. The paint is not really bad but it has got various swirls and light scratches on it that could do with being erradicated.
Any help would be greatly appreciated and by the way some of the detailling work on this forum is AMAZING!
He said that the pad was just bouncing off the cars paint work and he did not want to go on and ruin the paintwork. Sorry to be a little vague but am a little new to the is detailling lark and was wandering if anyone could maybe explain why this happened. I have never had any form of paint protection/sealant applied so don't knwo why this is happening.
Also is there anyone out there that would give my car a proper detail, I have spoken to 2 companies and they have said no...........which surprised me.......it may be a Defender but it is still worthy of a detail now and then. The paint is not really bad but it has got various swirls and light scratches on it that could do with being erradicated.
Any help would be greatly appreciated and by the way some of the detailling work on this forum is AMAZING!
Hi,
My advice is to speak to J at Connoisseur Car Valet PM me if you want his number.
He does paint correction and is one of the best detailers in the SE that I have found, he's also done quite a few other cars from PH as well if you ask about.
Pretty sure he'll tell you what's what and if it can be sorted out.
My advice is to speak to J at Connoisseur Car Valet PM me if you want his number.
He does paint correction and is one of the best detailers in the SE that I have found, he's also done quite a few other cars from PH as well if you ask about.
Pretty sure he'll tell you what's what and if it can be sorted out.
If the machine he was using was hopping and skipping, it 'sounds' like he either hasn't got a clue what he is doing with the machine, or was trying to force a product to work in the wrong conditions. For example, Menzerna is a popular product range for defect correction but it can be very fussy about what conditions it works well in. So the answer is to learn how to work around it, or use a different product.
If it was the first problem, just get someone else in. What part of the country are you in?
If it was the first problem, just get someone else in. What part of the country are you in?
Bish said:
Just had a chap come over and try to give my Defender a machine polish to remover some swirl marks from the paint and he was unable to do it. He had given the car a full valet and this was the last stage.
He said that the pad was just bouncing off the cars paint work and he did not want to go on and ruin the paintwork. Sorry to be a little vague but am a little new to the is detailling lark and was wandering if anyone could maybe explain why this happened. I have never had any form of paint protection/sealant applied so don't knwo why this is happening.
Also is there anyone out there that would give my car a proper detail, I have spoken to 2 companies and they have said no...........which surprised me.......it may be a Defender but it is still worthy of a detail now and then. The paint is not really bad but it has got various swirls and light scratches on it that could do with being erradicated.
Any help would be greatly appreciated and by the way some of the detailling work on this forum is AMAZING!
sorry but it seems the guy you used needs to learn a bit about paint correction!He said that the pad was just bouncing off the cars paint work and he did not want to go on and ruin the paintwork. Sorry to be a little vague but am a little new to the is detailling lark and was wandering if anyone could maybe explain why this happened. I have never had any form of paint protection/sealant applied so don't knwo why this is happening.
Also is there anyone out there that would give my car a proper detail, I have spoken to 2 companies and they have said no...........which surprised me.......it may be a Defender but it is still worthy of a detail now and then. The paint is not really bad but it has got various swirls and light scratches on it that could do with being erradicated.
Any help would be greatly appreciated and by the way some of the detailling work on this forum is AMAZING!
As already pointed out, the chap used was an amateur using your vehicle as on the job learning, no doubt with a bit of assistance from detailing world gurus too!
Like builders, electricians, plumbers, you'll find the ones personally recommended are because they do the job right first time.
Like builders, electricians, plumbers, you'll find the ones personally recommended are because they do the job right first time.
PJ S said:
As already pointed out, the chap used was an amateur using your vehicle as on the job learning, no doubt with a bit of assistance from detailing world gurus too!
Like builders, electricians, plumbers, you'll find the ones personally recommended are because they do the job right first time.
never a truer word spoken - detailing now seen as an easy £50/hour to practice on YOUR car!! - Detailing World has a lot to answer for in some respects? Like builders, electricians, plumbers, you'll find the ones personally recommended are because they do the job right first time.
grand cherokee said:
PJ S said:
As already pointed out, the chap used was an amateur using your vehicle as on the job learning, no doubt with a bit of assistance from detailing world gurus too!
Like builders, electricians, plumbers, you'll find the ones personally recommended are because they do the job right first time.
never a truer word spoken - detailing now seen as an easy £50/hour to practice on YOUR car!! - Detailing World has a lot to answer for in some respects? Like builders, electricians, plumbers, you'll find the ones personally recommended are because they do the job right first time.
Do not be afraid to request that the detailer demonstrate what they can achieve on a small test section of the car.
I am no professional but have detailed a few cars and happily do this.
grand cherokee said:
PJ S said:
As already pointed out, the chap used was an amateur using your vehicle as on the job learning, no doubt with a bit of assistance from detailing world gurus too!
Like builders, electricians, plumbers, you'll find the ones personally recommended are because they do the job right first time.
never a truer word spoken - detailing now seen as an easy £50/hour to practice on YOUR car!! - Detailing World has a lot to answer for in some respects? Like builders, electricians, plumbers, you'll find the ones personally recommended are because they do the job right first time.
There's professional detailers on DW and the difference between pro and amateur should be pretty obvious; you pays your money and makes your choice BUT there's a LOT of people who tell you how they've detailed for "years" when in reality it's been a couple of years after discovering Meguiars followed by a few months as a "pro".
I detail part-time for friends and family and have done since about 2002 when only a handful of the pro's here and on DW were detailing professionally; doesn't make me any better, worse etc etc just hammers home the "years of experience" being chucked in everywhere.
I get work based almost entirely on word of mouth and I let my results speak for themselves. I don't claim to be better than anyone else but I do know my own skill level and abilities - hence why I don't wetsand for example; I'm not competent at it and will practice on MY cars first - as with every other technique and new product which comes my way.
There are more than a few non professional (i.e. those who don't rely on detailing as a full time job) detailers on DW who are the equal of many professionals out there - their knowledge and experience are second to none and to tar them all with the same brush is just a bit unfair I think.
Edited by AndyMI16 on Monday 17th September 14:16
AndyMI16 said:
grand cherokee said:
PJ S said:
As already pointed out, the chap used was an amateur using your vehicle as on the job learning, no doubt with a bit of assistance from detailing world gurus too!
Like builders, electricians, plumbers, you'll find the ones personally recommended are because they do the job right first time.
never a truer word spoken - detailing now seen as an easy £50/hour to practice on YOUR car!! - Detailing World has a lot to answer for in some respects? Like builders, electricians, plumbers, you'll find the ones personally recommended are because they do the job right first time.
There's professional detailers on DW and the difference between pro and amateur should be pretty obvious; you pays your money and makes your choice BUT there's a LOT of people who tell you how they've detailed for "years" when in reality it's been a couple of years after discovering Meguiars followed by a few months as a "pro".
I detail part-time for friends and family and have done since about 2002 when only a handful of the pro's here and on DW were detailing professionally; doesn't make me any better, worse etc etc just hammers home the "years of experience" being chucked in everywhere.
I get work based almost entirely on word of mouth and I let my results speak for themselves. I don't claim to be better than anyone else but I do know my own skill level and abilities - hence why I don't wetsand for example; I'm not competent at it and will practice on MY cars first - as with every other technique and new product which comes my way.
There are more than a few non professional (i.e. those who don't rely on detailing as a full time job) detailers on DW who are the equal of many professionals out there - their knowledge and experience are second to none and to tar them all with the same brush is just a bit unfair I think.
I'd be fairly certain that was a sure indication of a rank amateur proving his out his of depthness.
I'd agree that there are some amateur detailers who would give the pros a run for their money, but very few and far between.
Usage of the term "gurus" is as you'll find it in a dictionary - someone profoundly knowledgeable. Doesn't matter if they're full/part-time pro/amateur, experience and knowledge is what's being imparted.
Brownie points for how many years doing it using inferior products count for nothing AFAIC.
[quote]
Don't know who you're talking to, but if you read the OP's post, you'll see he mentions the "detailer" having a bouncing problem with the rotary.
I'd be fairly certain that was a sure indication of a rank amateur proving his out his of depthness.
I'd agree that there are some amateur detailers who would give the pros a run for their money, but very few and far between.
Usage of the term "gurus" is as you'll find it in a dictionary - someone profoundly knowledgeable. Doesn't matter if they're full/part-time pro/amateur, experience and knowledge is what's being imparted.
Brownie points for how many years doing it using inferior products count for nothing AFAIC.
[/quote]
General post matey - but it's been assumed that because the detailer concerned had some problems then it's inexperience showing which with all due respect to all concerned is rubbish - even the pro's can have difficulty with differing paints as I'm sure they'd fully agree with. The use of the word "guru" in this thread is hardly made with any degree of respect unless I've misread it - it appeared more sneering at those on DW who share their knowledge wth others, which includes some of the professional members and supporters of the forum. I've witnessed for myself professional detailers at times struggling with certain paint issues - I won't name names but one or two are well known and respected and even they have an off day or come across a paint finish which just doesn't want to play ball!
Years experience? Vital buddy, vital. Would you allow a trainee plumber or electrician into your house to perform a major job (simply using the comparison used earlier)? We seem to agree on that one unless I'm misreading your posts again.
I'm not trying to rubbish what anyone's said as I do agree that there are very few genuine pro's who I'd trust myself out there and a lot who are jumping on the bandwagon - I disagree that this is the fault of DW but if that's the case then maybe autopia should be blamed for the pre DW interest in detailing as that's where I got my addiction!
Don't know who you're talking to, but if you read the OP's post, you'll see he mentions the "detailer" having a bouncing problem with the rotary.
I'd be fairly certain that was a sure indication of a rank amateur proving his out his of depthness.
I'd agree that there are some amateur detailers who would give the pros a run for their money, but very few and far between.
Usage of the term "gurus" is as you'll find it in a dictionary - someone profoundly knowledgeable. Doesn't matter if they're full/part-time pro/amateur, experience and knowledge is what's being imparted.
Brownie points for how many years doing it using inferior products count for nothing AFAIC.
[/quote]
General post matey - but it's been assumed that because the detailer concerned had some problems then it's inexperience showing which with all due respect to all concerned is rubbish - even the pro's can have difficulty with differing paints as I'm sure they'd fully agree with. The use of the word "guru" in this thread is hardly made with any degree of respect unless I've misread it - it appeared more sneering at those on DW who share their knowledge wth others, which includes some of the professional members and supporters of the forum. I've witnessed for myself professional detailers at times struggling with certain paint issues - I won't name names but one or two are well known and respected and even they have an off day or come across a paint finish which just doesn't want to play ball!
Years experience? Vital buddy, vital. Would you allow a trainee plumber or electrician into your house to perform a major job (simply using the comparison used earlier)? We seem to agree on that one unless I'm misreading your posts again.
I'm not trying to rubbish what anyone's said as I do agree that there are very few genuine pro's who I'd trust myself out there and a lot who are jumping on the bandwagon - I disagree that this is the fault of DW but if that's the case then maybe autopia should be blamed for the pre DW interest in detailing as that's where I got my addiction!
Okay, not interested in playing some sort of tooing and froing slanging match, but you are reading way too much into my comments.
How you attribute the word 'guru' by me as sneering, I fail to comprehend but to set the record straight - it was meant as it is described in a dictionary, which is a repeat of what I said in the previous post.
As for experience - not all experience comes from purely the number of years on the job. I could be called an experienced painter and decorator, but the truth is I'm merely only good, at best. But with my 'years' of experience, it could be conceived that I could be a professional one tomorrow, should I choose a career change.
My point is, in ref. to the opening post, that the chap hired doesn't sound like a pro, otherwise the words "bouncing off the paintwork" when describing his difficulties with the rotary/orbital polisher he was using, would've been very different, IMO.
Anyway, point is as you've said, DW can't be held solely to blame for the influx of "detailers", Autopia is equally to blame, should blame need to be attributed to anyone or anything.
The cold hard truth of the matter for Joe P, is that they don't know what questions to ask or to look for in a detailer from the outset, and if the "young apprentice" talks the talk, then often times that's enough for them to be elected, and the "on the job training" remark becomes applicable.
I hope I've clarified my comments such that you won't misunderstand them or read into them something that isn't there.
How you attribute the word 'guru' by me as sneering, I fail to comprehend but to set the record straight - it was meant as it is described in a dictionary, which is a repeat of what I said in the previous post.
As for experience - not all experience comes from purely the number of years on the job. I could be called an experienced painter and decorator, but the truth is I'm merely only good, at best. But with my 'years' of experience, it could be conceived that I could be a professional one tomorrow, should I choose a career change.
My point is, in ref. to the opening post, that the chap hired doesn't sound like a pro, otherwise the words "bouncing off the paintwork" when describing his difficulties with the rotary/orbital polisher he was using, would've been very different, IMO.
Anyway, point is as you've said, DW can't be held solely to blame for the influx of "detailers", Autopia is equally to blame, should blame need to be attributed to anyone or anything.
The cold hard truth of the matter for Joe P, is that they don't know what questions to ask or to look for in a detailer from the outset, and if the "young apprentice" talks the talk, then often times that's enough for them to be elected, and the "on the job training" remark becomes applicable.
I hope I've clarified my comments such that you won't misunderstand them or read into them something that isn't there.
Edited by PJ S on Tuesday 18th September 11:34
seeing as i made the comment that caused some problems - 'detailing world has a lot to answer for' - then perhaps i should clarify my comments
as i said - there are a LOT of people taking up detailing as a profession and a lot lack the experience needed - to the effect that they are learning on customers cars!
i made another post about rotary machines - a long time pro has actually criticised newcomers on detailing world in that they call themselves pro's yet cannot use a rotary effectively/safely (this guy and i 'talk' by pm because i want to learn from his experience - and he no longer works as a pro so has no axe to grind!)
paint correction takes many forms - and therein lies the problem - i can deal with light surface scratches/holograms etc with a UDM/PC but i cannot handle serious problems especially orange peel and wet sanding etc
its about time there was some professional accreditation for detailers so as to sort the wheat from the chaff!!!
as i said - there are a LOT of people taking up detailing as a profession and a lot lack the experience needed - to the effect that they are learning on customers cars!
i made another post about rotary machines - a long time pro has actually criticised newcomers on detailing world in that they call themselves pro's yet cannot use a rotary effectively/safely (this guy and i 'talk' by pm because i want to learn from his experience - and he no longer works as a pro so has no axe to grind!)
paint correction takes many forms - and therein lies the problem - i can deal with light surface scratches/holograms etc with a UDM/PC but i cannot handle serious problems especially orange peel and wet sanding etc
its about time there was some professional accreditation for detailers so as to sort the wheat from the chaff!!!
Edited by grand cherokee on Tuesday 18th September 11:21
AndyMI16 said:
Fine by me matey - certainly not trying to start a war as it's only wax - a phrase I've used a lot in recent months.
Please refrain from referring to me as matey, as it's hard to fathom what intention is behind the use of the word.Could be just you and your typical demeanour, and nothing meant by it - but equally could be taken as being confrontational, and the lack of any hostilities on these forums makes it the enjoyable place it is.
General term sir - I call lots of people matey unless I have an issue with them.
Have to say I agree with your last post 110%+ as there are plenty of rank amateurs grabbing their newly purchased PC and becoming a pro immediately thereafter; mind you, there's a good number of "pro's" doing much the same and I know for a fact that several have relatively little true experience or indeed expertise but that's life I suppose.
I doubt that DW can control that but if you have any constructive suggestions best to direct them to DW Chief over there.
And I can't wetsand either - and won't be until I've practiced on my own company car first and got it absolutely right - too scary for me!
Have to say I agree with your last post 110%+ as there are plenty of rank amateurs grabbing their newly purchased PC and becoming a pro immediately thereafter; mind you, there's a good number of "pro's" doing much the same and I know for a fact that several have relatively little true experience or indeed expertise but that's life I suppose.
I doubt that DW can control that but if you have any constructive suggestions best to direct them to DW Chief over there.
And I can't wetsand either - and won't be until I've practiced on my own company car first and got it absolutely right - too scary for me!
Edited by AndyMI16 on Wednesday 19th September 14:30
Edited by AndyMI16 on Wednesday 19th September 14:33
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