Discussion
Hi, Ive been reading the posts on 993 suspension and have a few questions if anyone could help me.
I recently bought a 993 Targa that the previous owner had fitted with the Billstein HD and H&R springs. It was handling pretty badly at speed and so I took a drive over to an indy Porsche specialist to see what they thought. He immediately noticed that it was setup far too low and probably also needed the geo resetting, so weve booked it in to be done next week (they are a well known indy and have all the kit for kinematic toe, etc.) He also said that, as the car has done 74000 miles, I should replace the wishbones.
This has thrown up a few questions for me to chew over and I thought, as there is a lot of collective good knowledge on the forum, I might ask what people thought.
Also, the price of original Porsche parts has almost doubled to around £300 a side in the past 6 weeks (or so I have been told) and that also makes me want to look at alternatives.
1) Does the car really need replacements? Is it easy to tell, or is there a degree of progressive degradation?
2) If so, I would perhaps look to have them re-bushed. Will this really save me money?
3) If they look at the car this week found that they do need replacing, I am reluctant to just agree and throw £600 at them and I will need to make a decision as to what to do. Can I go ahead and have the geo adjusted and fit new/re-bushed wishbones at a later date, or will replacing them later require the geo to be redone, thus wasting the money I will have spent geting the geo done in the first place?
4) Is there any pos/negs on refitting with poly bushes? Have heard differing opinions; one Indy said they transform the car and make it a lot sharper (but he also recommended advanced driving and track day experience would be more beneficial to a new 911 owner ahead of mucking about with the suspension), another says they destroy the steering feel and feedback.
Ive read the recent posts on re-bushing and can say that I have no problem with going that route if mine are shot.
I would really appreciate help on this from the PH masseev. Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Owen
I recently bought a 993 Targa that the previous owner had fitted with the Billstein HD and H&R springs. It was handling pretty badly at speed and so I took a drive over to an indy Porsche specialist to see what they thought. He immediately noticed that it was setup far too low and probably also needed the geo resetting, so weve booked it in to be done next week (they are a well known indy and have all the kit for kinematic toe, etc.) He also said that, as the car has done 74000 miles, I should replace the wishbones.
This has thrown up a few questions for me to chew over and I thought, as there is a lot of collective good knowledge on the forum, I might ask what people thought.
Also, the price of original Porsche parts has almost doubled to around £300 a side in the past 6 weeks (or so I have been told) and that also makes me want to look at alternatives.
1) Does the car really need replacements? Is it easy to tell, or is there a degree of progressive degradation?
2) If so, I would perhaps look to have them re-bushed. Will this really save me money?
3) If they look at the car this week found that they do need replacing, I am reluctant to just agree and throw £600 at them and I will need to make a decision as to what to do. Can I go ahead and have the geo adjusted and fit new/re-bushed wishbones at a later date, or will replacing them later require the geo to be redone, thus wasting the money I will have spent geting the geo done in the first place?
4) Is there any pos/negs on refitting with poly bushes? Have heard differing opinions; one Indy said they transform the car and make it a lot sharper (but he also recommended advanced driving and track day experience would be more beneficial to a new 911 owner ahead of mucking about with the suspension), another says they destroy the steering feel and feedback.
Ive read the recent posts on re-bushing and can say that I have no problem with going that route if mine are shot.
I would really appreciate help on this from the PH masseev. Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Owen
The advice your Independent has given you appears to be correct. The bushes degrade over time through hardening and deformation. If they are the original bushes then they will be well past their best irrespective of the mileage of the car. They probably haven't failed completely, in that they have not split or become dislodged, so chances are they will pass a PPI or MOT. If you are going to the trouble of having the geometry reset then I would advise having them changed. In answer to your specific question, you will need to have the geometry rechecked if you have the wishbones changed later.
A few points to note; It's probably worth checking the price of the complete wishbones directly at a Porsche dealer. Also, try phoning around different dealers and try www.carnewal.com. In terms of rebushing, I recall that Hartech supply complete rebushed wishbones on an exchange basis.
I've never heard from anybody that has rebushed their own bushes with polyurethane or anything else that has been 100% satisfied. Some one may post on here and tell you different.
In your position, I would first try and source the proper Porsche wishbones at the old price. failing that I would go for the Hartech parts.
Good luck and let us know how you got on.
pp
A few points to note; It's probably worth checking the price of the complete wishbones directly at a Porsche dealer. Also, try phoning around different dealers and try www.carnewal.com. In terms of rebushing, I recall that Hartech supply complete rebushed wishbones on an exchange basis.
I've never heard from anybody that has rebushed their own bushes with polyurethane or anything else that has been 100% satisfied. Some one may post on here and tell you different.
In your position, I would first try and source the proper Porsche wishbones at the old price. failing that I would go for the Hartech parts.
Good luck and let us know how you got on.
pp
Pickled Piper said:
I've never heard from anybody that has rebushed their own bushes with polyurethane or anything else that has been 100% satisfied. Some one may post on here and tell you different.
pp
I did and I am. I am reasonably handy mechanically and have a good selection of tools in my shed - it took me an afternoon to do. The poly bushes are firmer than the originals and are said to tighten up the feel at the front - TBH, I didn't notice any real difference in day to day driving. pp
I would have liked to have fitted new wishbones but the £400-£500 saving was too much to ignore. I wasn't frightened by the work - there was a very good how-to in one of the monthly mags a while back.
Trev
I've a 96 993 with 103k miles, as far as I'm aware the wishbones have not been replaced and the car has recently passed its MOT. I too have the HD M030 suspension and I do four track days a year and doing one this Thursday. I've wondered about the wishbones and thought I'd buy some second hand wishbones off E-bay (which I've done this week for £60 complete with other front suspension bits) and fit new poly bushes to them over the winter, then get the geometry checks done afterwards.
Every thing is achievable if you've got a set of spanners and the will power.
David
Every thing is achievable if you've got a set of spanners and the will power.
David
ADDLED said:
Thanks PP for the info, and good to see you tried it out and it worked Gaity.
PP, when you said about refurbs, did you mean that you would consider professional refurbs, but not an amateur job?
Obi.
Hi Addled,PP, when you said about refurbs, did you mean that you would consider professional refurbs, but not an amateur job?
Obi.
I personally wouldn't refurb because of my limited proficiency with this type of job coupled with the mixed reports I had heard from those that had attempted it. I would happily buy the Hartech refurbed wishbones as the ball ache part of the job has been done and Hartech are a reputable source.
BTW whan I had my wishbones changed the cost of the whole wishbone was £159 plus VAT.
Gaity is clearly skilled with the spanners. If I had attempted it I would have probably amputated a limb and ended up in A&E.
pp
Edited by Pickled Piper on Sunday 16th September 19:36
Fergusond said:
I've wondered about the wishbones and thought I'd buy some second hand wishbones off E-bay (which I've done this week for £60 complete with other front suspension bits)
I threw my complete old M033 suspension in the skip including the wishbones after unsuccessfully trying to sell it for beer money. Maybe I wasn't asking enough money for it. I did manage to sell the springs but had no interest in the anti roll bars or wishbones.pp
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