oil temperature: some data
Discussion
FYI, i would like to share with you these data:
My 111R is back from dealer with the moroso oil pan (which mean 1 more liter of oil than standard) AND a digital oil gauge coupled on my alfano pro (www.alfano.com).
I only test it on road but it seems interesting to see the differences between water temp and oil temp.
Starting from 20°C outside and motor cold from overnight, I drove on speedway at regular 120 kph (everybody was laughing but as the car was cold and I wanted to keep my speed steady, I was waved by vans and small trucks.
So
Distance (km) -Water-------- oil
0--------------xx ----------22
3-------------- 71----------50
7 --------------84----------60
17 ------------+/_84---------82 So it takes almost 10 km for oil to reach the same temp as water once at 84°C
After this the oil remains between 2° from water.
Waiting still in the garage for 5 minutes, the water rises from 89 to 95°C while oil went down from 87 to 85 (after using second came on last km).
My conclusions are:
1, You need to wait another 8-10 km after water at 84 before to get oil at normal temp
2, While standing, the water is a lot hotter than the oil wich is even going a bit down.
My next experiences are traffic jam and track day 
If you find this interesting let me know. I will update.
My 111R is back from dealer with the moroso oil pan (which mean 1 more liter of oil than standard) AND a digital oil gauge coupled on my alfano pro (www.alfano.com).
I only test it on road but it seems interesting to see the differences between water temp and oil temp.
Starting from 20°C outside and motor cold from overnight, I drove on speedway at regular 120 kph (everybody was laughing but as the car was cold and I wanted to keep my speed steady, I was waved by vans and small trucks.
So
Distance (km) -Water-------- oil
0--------------xx ----------22
3-------------- 71----------50
7 --------------84----------60
17 ------------+/_84---------82 So it takes almost 10 km for oil to reach the same temp as water once at 84°C
After this the oil remains between 2° from water.
Waiting still in the garage for 5 minutes, the water rises from 89 to 95°C while oil went down from 87 to 85 (after using second came on last km).
My conclusions are:
1, You need to wait another 8-10 km after water at 84 before to get oil at normal temp
2, While standing, the water is a lot hotter than the oil wich is even going a bit down.
My next experiences are traffic jam
and track day If you find this interesting let me know. I will update.
Edited by bher on Sunday 16th September 20:06
Thanks for replying.
I only recorded these numbers yesterday and today and will check them again in the future but i was also very surprised how long it takes to get oil at 80°
It is also interesting to see how long the engine remains hot. I did not time it precisely but oil was at 55C a few (+/- 3 ? hours) after the drive. I will confirm this in the future
I just wanted to share this on the forum asap
I only recorded these numbers yesterday and today and will check them again in the future but i was also very surprised how long it takes to get oil at 80°
It is also interesting to see how long the engine remains hot. I did not time it precisely but oil was at 55C a few (+/- 3 ? hours) after the drive. I will confirm this in the future
I just wanted to share this on the forum asap
Interesting readings BUT...
From reading between the lines you are stating that the oil does not protect unless it is at 80+ degrees.
I would disagree. For this to be conclusive data you would have to know the exact wear rates at every stage for the rev band and any practical oil temp. I am sure some very capable computer could model this or you could simply use the best oil, adhere to the service intervals and be comfortable in the knowledge that modern synthetics give brilliant protection, even from cold.
There would also be a difference in oil temp from the oil at the head/ sump and pistons. Where is your temp probe?, I would bet it is in the sump, located someware near the sump plug. This is probably the last location to get hot, especially in a race style, baffled sump.
From reading between the lines you are stating that the oil does not protect unless it is at 80+ degrees.
I would disagree. For this to be conclusive data you would have to know the exact wear rates at every stage for the rev band and any practical oil temp. I am sure some very capable computer could model this or you could simply use the best oil, adhere to the service intervals and be comfortable in the knowledge that modern synthetics give brilliant protection, even from cold.
There would also be a difference in oil temp from the oil at the head/ sump and pistons. Where is your temp probe?, I would bet it is in the sump, located someware near the sump plug. This is probably the last location to get hot, especially in a race style, baffled sump.
Edited by Gooby on Sunday 16th September 22:53
Gooby said:
Interesting readings BUT...
From reading between the lines you are stating that the oil does not protect unless it is at 80+ degrees.
maybee not 80, but certainly it need to be close to this before you can rely on getting the full benifits of it's lubrication qualities...From reading between the lines you are stating that the oil does not protect unless it is at 80+ degrees.
in an ideal world, you want the oil temp to be just over the 100C mark, this is hot enough to evaporate any water in the sump (condensation etc) and cool enough to be well within the operating range of the oil.
Scuffers said:
Gooby said:
Interesting readings BUT...
From reading between the lines you are stating that the oil does not protect unless it is at 80+ degrees.
maybee not 80, but certainly it need to be close to this before you can rely on getting the full benifits of it's lubrication qualities...From reading between the lines you are stating that the oil does not protect unless it is at 80+ degrees.
in an ideal world, you want the oil temp to be just over the 100C mark, this is hot enough to evaporate any water in the sump (condensation etc) and cool enough to be well within the operating range of the oil.
Why is protection only given at high temps? Is it due to the oils or the lubrication seats in the engine?
Gooby said:
Scuffers said:
Gooby said:
Interesting readings BUT...
From reading between the lines you are stating that the oil does not protect unless it is at 80+ degrees.
maybee not 80, but certainly it need to be close to this before you can rely on getting the full benifits of it's lubrication qualities...From reading between the lines you are stating that the oil does not protect unless it is at 80+ degrees.
in an ideal world, you want the oil temp to be just over the 100C mark, this is hot enough to evaporate any water in the sump (condensation etc) and cool enough to be well within the operating range of the oil.
Why is protection only given at high temps? Is it due to the oils or the lubrication seats in the engine?
ie. take 5W40 as an oil, it will not be at 40 untill it's at 100C, so below that it will be thicker, thus it's flow rate will be lower etc etc etc.
this is why so many moderen engines have oil/water coolers/heats to get the oil to temp as well as cool it down.
I hear what you chaps are saying, but in the 'real world', with a decent oil (I use Silkolene Pro-R 15-50) what damage are you going to do to your engine, if you occasionally 'give it the beans', before the oil is up to optimum operating temperature ?
Obviously this isn't going to be the case every time you go for a drive, so surely over the lifetime of the car (100,000 mile +) it's not going to be such a big deal.
Obviously this isn't going to be the case every time you go for a drive, so surely over the lifetime of the car (100,000 mile +) it's not going to be such a big deal.
That's interesting data and more or less in line with what I'm getting in my car (with oil temp gauge).
As for temperatures - I've been advised to get oil temp to 70°C (Castrol 10w60 oil) before applying full throttle.
I find the 80°C (with the oil I use) to be rather high though, as it won't get anywhere close to those temps without it either being 1.) very warm/hot outside and 2.) not engaging 2nd cam - at least overhere.
Cheers Phil
As for temperatures - I've been advised to get oil temp to 70°C (Castrol 10w60 oil) before applying full throttle.
I find the 80°C (with the oil I use) to be rather high though, as it won't get anywhere close to those temps without it either being 1.) very warm/hot outside and 2.) not engaging 2nd cam - at least overhere.
Cheers Phil
Paul RN said:
I'd guess with a oil cooler, you'll be talking longer still
Depends on which type of oil cooler. A water-oil cooler uses the coolant to reduce oil temps but in the warm-up phase coolant is actually hotter (the data above shows this too) and will help heat the oil quicker.An air-oil cooler will not have this helpful effect.
This is an interesting post. Mainly because i was wondering just today how long people wait before they give it the beans. I normally drive for around 10 minutes (which could be as little as 5 miles) before hand. Should i be waiting longer. I do not have an oil temp gauge and i know the water temp gauges mean little for this.
I was advised to let the oil warm up in an attempt to lengthen the life of the Head Gasket and to avoid HGF.
D
I was advised to let the oil warm up in an attempt to lengthen the life of the Head Gasket and to avoid HGF.
D
I read an interesting query about the same thing in Evo a couple of months back. They were asking why when you hear a F1 car start up do they rev the knackers off it.
Apparently the worst thing you can do to a cold engine is subject ot to load (by drivng)as its the big-end bearing and camshafts that you need to look after. By blipping the throttle a few times before driving off you create heat thats thins the oil and helps warm up the engine. The blipping also splashes oil around the engine.
Apparently the worst thing you can do to a cold engine is subject ot to load (by drivng)as its the big-end bearing and camshafts that you need to look after. By blipping the throttle a few times before driving off you create heat thats thins the oil and helps warm up the engine. The blipping also splashes oil around the engine.
I normally try and keep the revs to 3k or below until the water temp is at 86-87 and then wait another 5 mins before using higher revs, which seems about right with what the OP was saying. 3k revs in 6th is about 60MPH, (60mph=100kph, 100/60mins x 5 = just over 8kms done at 60mph in 5 mins). I know that some people with Rover engines wait up to 10 mins, must be a drag but worth it in the long run to look after your powerplant.
Edited by Cino on Saturday 22 September 21:08
For the majority of the time I stay below 3,000 rpm for 10 minutes until the water reaches 80C, then another 10 minutes for the oil and then if I have been giving it some beans I will do a 'drive down' for 5 minutes to let everything cool down to normal operating temps before switching the engine off.
I'm doing my upmost to prevent HGF!
I'm doing my upmost to prevent HGF!
DanCat said:
I read an interesting query about the same thing in Evo a couple of months back. They were asking why when you hear a F1 car start up do they rev the knackers off it.
Apparently the worst thing you can do to a cold engine is subject ot to load (by drivng)as its the big-end bearing and camshafts that you need to look after. By blipping the throttle a few times before driving off you create heat thats thins the oil and helps warm up the engine. The blipping also splashes oil around the engine.
As said, F1 engines are never started cold, they use heaters to warm them up first.Apparently the worst thing you can do to a cold engine is subject ot to load (by drivng)as its the big-end bearing and camshafts that you need to look after. By blipping the throttle a few times before driving off you create heat thats thins the oil and helps warm up the engine. The blipping also splashes oil around the engine.
this is the sort of thing that's used on *many* race cars http://www.racecarpreheater.co.uk/index.php
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff