How to win the 24hr ?
Discussion
Easy. Given that the race is based loosely upon the Nurburgring 24hrs in terms of whatever regulations there are then you need a Porsche 997 similar to those at the front of the Nurburgring race. Then you need a whole team of pro drivers, run by a pro team.
That is of course unless the regulations change....
That is of course unless the regulations change....
2priestsferrari said:
Easy. Given that the race is based loosely upon the Nurburgring 24hrs in terms of whatever regulations there are then you need a Porsche 997 similar to those at the front of the Nurburgring race. Then you need a whole team of pro drivers, run by a pro team.
That is of course unless the regulations change....
that's toally blinkered bullThat is of course unless the regulations change....
you might want to read the regs and look at the format before making stupid comments like that.
Scuffers said:
2priestsferrari said:
Easy. Given that the race is based loosely upon the Nurburgring 24hrs in terms of whatever regulations there are then you need a Porsche 997 similar to those at the front of the Nurburgring race. Then you need a whole team of pro drivers, run by a pro team.
That is of course unless the regulations change....
that's toally blinkered bullThat is of course unless the regulations change....
you might want to read the regs and look at the format before making stupid comments like that.
Scuffers said:
2priestsferrari said:
Easy. Given that the race is based loosely upon the Nurburgring 24hrs in terms of whatever regulations there are then you need a Porsche 997 similar to those at the front of the Nurburgring race. Then you need a whole team of pro drivers, run by a pro team.
That is of course unless the regulations change....
that's toally blinkered bullThat is of course unless the regulations change....
you might want to read the regs and look at the format before making stupid comments like that.
I think I'm right is saying you were over 150 laps down this year and last year...??
Perhaps you could do with a Porsche or pro drivers or a pro team??? No? Tell me how to win with an Exige on the cheap..
2priestsferrari said:
Scuffers said:
2priestsferrari said:
Easy. Given that the race is based loosely upon the Nurburgring 24hrs in terms of whatever regulations there are then you need a Porsche 997 similar to those at the front of the Nurburgring race. Then you need a whole team of pro drivers, run by a pro team.
That is of course unless the regulations change....
that's toally blinkered bullThat is of course unless the regulations change....
you might want to read the regs and look at the format before making stupid comments like that.
I think I'm right is saying you were over 150 laps down this year and last year...??
Perhaps you could do with a Porsche or pro drivers or a pro team??? No? Tell me how to win with an Exige on the cheap..
that the best you can do?
Tell you what, why don't you show us how it's done...
Scuffers said:
2priestsferrari said:
Scuffers said:
2priestsferrari said:
Easy. Given that the race is based loosely upon the Nurburgring 24hrs in terms of whatever regulations there are then you need a Porsche 997 similar to those at the front of the Nurburgring race. Then you need a whole team of pro drivers, run by a pro team.
That is of course unless the regulations change....
that's toally blinkered bullThat is of course unless the regulations change....
you might want to read the regs and look at the format before making stupid comments like that.
I think I'm right is saying you were over 150 laps down this year and last year...??
Perhaps you could do with a Porsche or pro drivers or a pro team??? No? Tell me how to win with an Exige on the cheap..
that the best you can do?
Tell you what, why don't you show us how it's done...
As to me showing you how it is done you have no idea who I am. I could be Allan McNish for all you know.
2priestsferrari said:
Hey this is a bit pathetic - all I did was give my suggestion about how to win. I give the opportunity for you to do the same and you have nothing to say... Well done. Because you can be sure that your team with its Exige is not the way - or if it is then tell me how and you'll have heaps of customers.
As to me showing you how it is done you have no idea who I am. I could be Allan McNish for all you know.
just crying at this (and your other posts here!)As to me showing you how it is done you have no idea who I am. I could be Allan McNish for all you know.
look, when did I ever say we could win outright in the Exige? we were in class 1, we could (and should) have won the class (reliability is everything and we did not have it this year).
911 GT3 cannot really win outright too, not fast enough to compere with the Z4/Mosslers on pace, and not economical enough to win on stint times, even the Moslers cant compete, yes they are fast enough, but way to thirsty.
think about it (if that's not too hard).. look where Simon Mason's team ended up...
last bit, I don't give two hoots who you think you are, you certainly are not Allan McNish, he would not make such stupid comments.
Scuffers said:
2priestsferrari said:
Hey this is a bit pathetic - all I did was give my suggestion about how to win. I give the opportunity for you to do the same and you have nothing to say... Well done. Because you can be sure that your team with its Exige is not the way - or if it is then tell me how and you'll have heaps of customers.
As to me showing you how it is done you have no idea who I am. I could be Allan McNish for all you know.
just crying at this (and your other posts here!)As to me showing you how it is done you have no idea who I am. I could be Allan McNish for all you know.
look, when did I ever say we could win outright in the Exige? we were in class 1, we could (and should) have won the class (reliability is everything and we did not have it this year).
911 GT3 cannot really win outright too, not fast enough to compere with the Z4/Mosslers on pace, and not economical enough to win on stint times, even the Moslers cant compete, yes they are fast enough, but way to thirsty.
think about it (if that's not too hard).. look where Simon Mason's team ended up...
last bit, I don't give two hoots who you think you are, you certainly are not Allan McNish, he would not make such stupid comments.
On the Porsche front as you can see from the current regulations the EERC even allowed the 993 GT2 car and a Dodge Viper GT2 car this year and whilst these were poor examples as both had problems the old GT2 is the modern GT1 and so if you look at the LMS results it will show that a modern GT1 car can lap Silverstone in 1m 44s whilst a modern GT2 car will do it in 1m 49s.
Now tell me how in the current regs you stop those cars from being illegal?
BTW the fastest GT2 porsche was 1m 50sec - and so able to lap way faster than a BMW Z4.
Whilst the Honda had a good run it isn't fast enough.
Missed you 2priests - see the (brief) thread as here - hope you agree
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
2priestsferrari said:
Easy. Given that the race is based loosely upon the Nurburgring 24hrs in terms of whatever regulations there are then you need a Porsche 997 similar to those at the front of the Nurburgring race. Then you need a whole team of pro drivers, run by a pro team.
That is of course unless the regulations change....
No you don't. You need to act and work like a professional team, you don't need to be one. We prove that each year with our Honda run by mechanics from an car servicing centre in Barnstable and a few carefully chosen helpers with skills to match their duties. Its just a mater of being thoughtfull, organised and then cohesive.That is of course unless the regulations change....
Car wise there are several cars in the race already that should be able win if they were properly run and driven in the first place. I wont say which cars but some of them cost no where near as much as the 997RSR's they race in the Ring 24hrs which incidentaly are modified versions, even the DBRS9 they race in the VLN is no longer a GT3 car.
The single biggest factor, although no more important than the team choices, are definately the drivers. They don't need to be professional (although at least one will be a significant help if you get a good one) but they need to be fast very experienced long distance racers and ideally have raced regularly at some time with a Professional or at least been coached by one.
Finaly all the information required to beat Duller is now available its just a mater of manipulating it
So set forth and start planning....
No sure I get it but hey there is a balance isn't there otherwise that VW Golf diesel would have won.
Make a simulation for yourself - the Z4 was stopping once every 45 laps if it ran OK.
45 laps at an average of 1m 57s pace is around 87 mins.
Rollcentre were stopping around 36laps and so they hurt for fuel yes (which you would expect with the bigger motor BUT worse for them there night pace just simply wasn't quick enough; being around 1 to 2 seconds off what the Duller car could do. Same problem for the Chad Mosler they had 2 weak drivers.
The Honda you speak of was still stopping every 60ish laps but they are loosing more than 15 seconds per lap. On which basis they get lapped every 7 laps; so by the time the Duller car stops once it has lapped the Honda 7 times then looses some in the pit stop BUT so what? Look at the 2nd hour bulletin, TJH were down 4 laps.
No you do need to have speed and you also need a proper driver line up.
Make a simulation for yourself - the Z4 was stopping once every 45 laps if it ran OK.
45 laps at an average of 1m 57s pace is around 87 mins.
Rollcentre were stopping around 36laps and so they hurt for fuel yes (which you would expect with the bigger motor BUT worse for them there night pace just simply wasn't quick enough; being around 1 to 2 seconds off what the Duller car could do. Same problem for the Chad Mosler they had 2 weak drivers.
The Honda you speak of was still stopping every 60ish laps but they are loosing more than 15 seconds per lap. On which basis they get lapped every 7 laps; so by the time the Duller car stops once it has lapped the Honda 7 times then looses some in the pit stop BUT so what? Look at the 2nd hour bulletin, TJH were down 4 laps.
No you do need to have speed and you also need a proper driver line up.
kenthardy said:
Missed you 2priests - see the (brief) thread as here - hope you agree
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Absolutely I do. I wish this event would become bigger and bigger.http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Simon Mason said:
2priestsferrari said:
Easy. Given that the race is based loosely upon the Nurburgring 24hrs in terms of whatever regulations there are then you need a Porsche 997 similar to those at the front of the Nurburgring race. Then you need a whole team of pro drivers, run by a pro team.
That is of course unless the regulations change....
No you don't. You need to act and work like a professional team, you don't need to be one. We prove that each year with our Honda run by mechanics from an car servicing centre in Barnstable and a few carefully chosen helpers with skills to match their duties. Its just a mater of being thoughtfull, organised and then cohesive.That is of course unless the regulations change....
Car wise there are several cars in the race already that should be able win if they were properly run and driven in the first place. I wont say which cars but some of them cost no where near as much as the 997RSR's they race in the Ring 24hrs which incidentaly are modified versions, even the DBRS9 they race in the VLN is no longer a GT3 car.
The single biggest factor, although no more important than the team choices, are definately the drivers. They don't need to be professional (although at least one will be a significant help if you get a good one) but they need to be fast very experienced long distance racers and ideally have raced regularly at some time with a Professional or at least been coached by one.
Finaly all the information required to beat Duller is now available its just a mater of manipulating it
So set forth and start planning....
I agree on your points about planning, etc, etc. However like I pointed out on the other post, its no good being a second off the pace for an hour or two because that just means you lost over half a lap. Which when that driver has 4 stints that becomes 2 whole laps.
2priests - your ability to recite information from MST is genius - however your knowledge of all things Britcar is minimal, and most of the time mildy insulting and not amusing. Apart from Henry for a spell last year (but Duller eventually caught him) a Porsche has never looked like winning any of the 3 Britcar races held to date - indeed a 997 only won one Britcar race all year.
Couple of things about the 24 hours - around 50-55 of the 60 starters would know up front that they would not be winning the event overall, but that doesn't stop us from entering. Why do 9 of the 11 F1 team bother??. Why run a Porsche in BGT? If you haven't got a Peugeot why run in LMES?
But like Scuffers and Simon, we are chasing class wins, the best we can overall, but most of all as a relatively new team, and people who are passionate about motorsport, we want to enjoy things in life very few get the chance to do - for most in the Britcar 24 Hours it really is the taking part (like it or not!). We would love to run a Z4, have a budget of £1/2 million pounds, change engines before every session, employ professional drivers - but we cannot because we are Jemco. But want we do, is add our little bit to British motorsport, and Britcar in particular by having a go - and we are bloody proud of it.
NB: you may want to retact your comments about Chad Mosler. All three drivers have raced in LMES this year, so not sure who the "two weak drivers" are! Comments such as yours got Top Gear in trouble with Chad, and I wouldn't want to cross them.
Couple of things about the 24 hours - around 50-55 of the 60 starters would know up front that they would not be winning the event overall, but that doesn't stop us from entering. Why do 9 of the 11 F1 team bother??. Why run a Porsche in BGT? If you haven't got a Peugeot why run in LMES?
But like Scuffers and Simon, we are chasing class wins, the best we can overall, but most of all as a relatively new team, and people who are passionate about motorsport, we want to enjoy things in life very few get the chance to do - for most in the Britcar 24 Hours it really is the taking part (like it or not!). We would love to run a Z4, have a budget of £1/2 million pounds, change engines before every session, employ professional drivers - but we cannot because we are Jemco. But want we do, is add our little bit to British motorsport, and Britcar in particular by having a go - and we are bloody proud of it.
NB: you may want to retact your comments about Chad Mosler. All three drivers have raced in LMES this year, so not sure who the "two weak drivers" are! Comments such as yours got Top Gear in trouble with Chad, and I wouldn't want to cross them.
Jemco Andy said:
2priests - your ability to recite information from MST is genius - however your knowledge of all things Britcar is minimal, and most of the time mildy insulting and not amusing. Apart from Henry for a spell last year (but Duller eventually caught him) a Porsche has never looked like winning any of the 3 Britcar races held to date - indeed a 997 only won one Britcar race all year.
I think the insults in this thread have come from you and Scuffers. I'm sorry (and I'll try and put this in the nicest way) but tell me the Porsche's in this years 24hr and the whole of Britcar that have had quick drivers throughout the line up? Then you'll have the answer for yourself.Jemco Andy said:
Couple of things about the 24 hours - around 50-55 of the 60 starters would know up front that they would not be winning the event overall, but that doesn't stop us from entering. Why do 9 of the 11 F1 team bother??. Why run a Porsche in BGT? If you haven't got a Peugeot why run in LMES?
I think you should look at the title of the thread. How to WIN the 24hr. So don't just pitch up and highjack things. If you read my initial post I gave a reasoned view of how to win. I'm not and have never belittled those wanting to have a go but that was not the point of this thread.Jemco Andy said:
But like Scuffers and Simon, we are chasing class wins, the best we can overall, but most of all as a relatively new team, and people who are passionate about motorsport, we want to enjoy things in life very few get the chance to do - for most in the Britcar 24 Hours it really is the taking part (like it or not!). We would love to run a Z4, have a budget of £1/2 million pounds, change engines before every session, employ professional drivers - but we cannot because we are Jemco. But want we do, is add our little bit to British motorsport, and Britcar in particular by having a go - and we are bloody proud of it.
Go for you, lets wave some flags and all be proud, but still the title of the thread was about WINNING, and why should people be so shy about winning??Jemco Andy said:
NB: you may want to retact your comments about Chad Mosler. All three drivers have raced in LMES this year, so not sure who the "two weak drivers" are! Comments such as yours got Top Gear in trouble with Chad, and I wouldn't want to cross them.
No, all three "raced" in LMS this year but not all three were competitive. Andy just look at the lap times will you. Vergers was the quick one, then look at the other lap times of that car. "and I wouldn't want to cross them"... First I don't think I have, second what is this school? IS a big bully going to come and get me. Come on Andy this is getting pathetic.The answer to the original question is one of two vehicles. Either a top line GT1 car, like an Oreca Saleen, or a normally aspirated 997 'Ring special.
The Saleen would need three top drawer drivers and would need to double or triple stint the drivers and tyres, based on one hour stints at 1:48 pace.
The 997 would run longer, do double stints of 1:30, and still need a pro team with three pro drivers to run it.
Someone has mentioned tyre longevity: this is not an issue for most cars. Dunlop make the best GT2 tyres out there, as proven by winning the LMS title a race early. We easily doubled one of the softer options throughout the race.
The pace in the 24, in real terms, is not terribly hot at all. If you can consistently find another 7 or 8 seconds a lap (which a good GT1 car would give) fuel consumption ceases to be an issue.
The Saleen would need three top drawer drivers and would need to double or triple stint the drivers and tyres, based on one hour stints at 1:48 pace.
The 997 would run longer, do double stints of 1:30, and still need a pro team with three pro drivers to run it.
Someone has mentioned tyre longevity: this is not an issue for most cars. Dunlop make the best GT2 tyres out there, as proven by winning the LMS title a race early. We easily doubled one of the softer options throughout the race.
The pace in the 24, in real terms, is not terribly hot at all. If you can consistently find another 7 or 8 seconds a lap (which a good GT1 car would give) fuel consumption ceases to be an issue.
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