Online fraud. Is it a crime?
Discussion
My debit card has been used on a gambling website. I found out today when their membership pack arrived in the post! Only £50 taken. I blew my top with them for not checking any details first. It took half an hour to get through to the fraud section of my (A&L) bank. They've cancelled the card and I'll get my money back.
I have a fair idea of which company could have leaked or used my card details but I can't prove it. The police probably could but will they bother for just £50?
The point is: this is a crime, isn't it? Do I leave it to my bank or should I pop into my local cop shop and file a report on it?
I have a fair idea of which company could have leaked or used my card details but I can't prove it. The police probably could but will they bother for just £50?
The point is: this is a crime, isn't it? Do I leave it to my bank or should I pop into my local cop shop and file a report on it?
I think the bank take it up with the site, although I don't know if they inform the police.
The bank's logic - going back a couple of years when someone spent several hundred pounds of my money in Dixons / Currys / PC World online stores - is that it's the fault of the retailer because they didn't get a signature.
Basically the bank claim the money back from the retailer (in this case website) and it's up to the retailer to then contact the police as they were the ones who were defrauded.
ie someone took goods from them without the ability to pay.
The bank's logic - going back a couple of years when someone spent several hundred pounds of my money in Dixons / Currys / PC World online stores - is that it's the fault of the retailer because they didn't get a signature.
Basically the bank claim the money back from the retailer (in this case website) and it's up to the retailer to then contact the police as they were the ones who were defrauded.
ie someone took goods from them without the ability to pay.
So, only "attempted theft" then! (See: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... - Streaky
It's the government's new wheeze so they can claim that credit card fraud is dropping. They told the police it's nothing to do with them unless your bank reports it. Your bank doesn't want to report it because it could expose lax security at their end.
The result? The crime figure drops. Hooray! I feel safer already.
The result? The crime figure drops. Hooray! I feel safer already.
Some BBC news here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/623...
driverrob said:
My debit card
Fundamental point: It's not your debit card, it belongs to the bank. You might think it has your account details on it, but, it's not your account - the account belongs to the bank.
It's the bank who have been defrauded, not you, so you can't make a complaint.
Deva Link said:
driverrob said:
My debit card
Fundamental point: It's not your debit card, it belongs to the bank. You might think it has your account details on it, but, it's not your account - the account belongs to the bank.
It's the bank who have been defrauded, not you, so you can't make a complaint.
I had a similar problem, with my Visa card being used to withdraw money in Hungary when I've never been there. The bank (First Direct) was very good and have refunded me the money (but not the transaction charges). They did say they would talk to the police, but they weren't allowed to tell me what happened. Amazingly, they also aren't allowed to tell me how my card details were obtained, even though I got the impression they had a good idea and gave me a hint (local Shell garage). I've spoken to others who know people who work in fraud depts in banks and they say how frustrating this is, as they know the people will unwittingly go back to the place where their card details were obtained and it will happen all over again.
It also happened to my brother earlier this year. He didn't just take it lying down when he was told that the police wouldn't be interested. He went to his local police station and insisted that they treat it as a crime. After about half an hour of arguing with the duty person, they reluctantly agreed to take down the details and asked him to write down all his card details on a notepad they kept on the desk by the phone. As you can imagine he didn't take too kindly to this. I don't think he got very far.
So yes, it seems that online fraud and cloned card fraud are not considered crimes any more except if the amount is huge. The banks are absorbing the costs of refunding their customers with no means of achieving prosecutions/compensation. While you can understand that not every £25 fraud is going to be the top priority for the police, it does give criminals free rein to make lots of smallish purchases without any fear of prosecution. That must be safer than nicking satnavs and flogging them down the pub?
It also happened to my brother earlier this year. He didn't just take it lying down when he was told that the police wouldn't be interested. He went to his local police station and insisted that they treat it as a crime. After about half an hour of arguing with the duty person, they reluctantly agreed to take down the details and asked him to write down all his card details on a notepad they kept on the desk by the phone. As you can imagine he didn't take too kindly to this. I don't think he got very far.
So yes, it seems that online fraud and cloned card fraud are not considered crimes any more except if the amount is huge. The banks are absorbing the costs of refunding their customers with no means of achieving prosecutions/compensation. While you can understand that not every £25 fraud is going to be the top priority for the police, it does give criminals free rein to make lots of smallish purchases without any fear of prosecution. That must be safer than nicking satnavs and flogging them down the pub?
Hooli said:
wasnt there something in the news about this a little while ago? its a crime the plod wont do anyting about unless its some sort of huge figure due to lack of resources.
It is now up to the bank to get Plod involved , apparently if you Joe Public go to Plod they will not be interested esselte said:
Deva Link said:
driverrob said:
My debit card
Fundamental point: It's not your debit card, it belongs to the bank. You might think it has your account details on it, but, it's not your account - the account belongs to the bank.
It's the bank who have been defrauded, not you, so you can't make a complaint.
Peter Ward said:
asked him to write down all his card details on a notepad they kept on the desk by the phone.
That must have been an hilarious conversation!Peter Ward said:
it does give criminals free rein to make lots of smallish purchases without any fear of prosecution.
What amazes me, and this has happened to me and several other people I know, and my credit card company said it's very common, is when the card is used to buy a flight. You would think that surely there's quite a lot of risk there, as someone has to turn up and take the flight? You would also think that (in this day and age) the transaction could easily be matched to the travellers details? However it would seem they're so confident of getting away with it that it doesn't bother them.
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