German Driving offences - any help welcome
Discussion
I was recently pulled over by the german police and fined €80 for tail gating a car on a de-restricted autobahn. I was caught on video following the car for 200m at 100kph. Although I realise this was stupid, the inside lane was clear for approx 1km and after following the car closely (about 10-15m), I dropped back to a safe distance. Surely if the inside lane is clear, the car should have been travelling in it; and 100kph in the fast lane of a de-restricted autobahn? My passport and drivers licence details were taken and I was informed that they would be reviewing the video back at the police station. I was then told they would be in contact with me through the post. Can I get in any further trouble/a greater fine than i have all ready paid? It just seemed at odds with the german style of driving. That is to say tail gating is almost a national sport and at speeds closer to 200kph. This is accompanied by the flashing of lights and weaving into the middle of the road. Did I just get unlucky with an overly anal pair of officers?
If your description of events is accurate, it is the other driver who is at fault, as German traffic laws basically say 'get out of the way of faster vehicles'.
A vehicle using the left lane when the right lane is clear is guilty of obstruction; a vehicle in the left lane travelling at 100 km/h on an otherwise clear Autobahn is bloody dangerous (think MLM doing c.40mph).
A vehicle using the left lane when the right lane is clear is guilty of obstruction; a vehicle in the left lane travelling at 100 km/h on an otherwise clear Autobahn is bloody dangerous (think MLM doing c.40mph).
They are very hot on tailgating over there now. You will only hear something if they decide that a ban is in order, and you will get a notice in the post stating that you can not drive for a week in Germany (big deal).
Has no impact on points in the UK, you do NOT need to notify your insurance nor anybody else for that matter.
A friend of mine got "done" in Switzerland on a similar thing. This time it was speeding in a tunnel (i.e. the motorway limit is 120 km/h, you enter a tunnel where the limits are 80 km/h) so he got done for the 40 km over the limit. Fine was 1000 Sfr on the spot, and in the post a month later he got a ban to drive in Switzerland for a month (why they bother if you are only there on holiday noone knows ...).
He called his insurance company to check, and they told him that it was not relevant for a UK point of view.
Has no impact on points in the UK, you do NOT need to notify your insurance nor anybody else for that matter.
A friend of mine got "done" in Switzerland on a similar thing. This time it was speeding in a tunnel (i.e. the motorway limit is 120 km/h, you enter a tunnel where the limits are 80 km/h) so he got done for the 40 km over the limit. Fine was 1000 Sfr on the spot, and in the post a month later he got a ban to drive in Switzerland for a month (why they bother if you are only there on holiday noone knows ...).
He called his insurance company to check, and they told him that it was not relevant for a UK point of view.
1. you were in the wrong, so was the guy in front (doesn't make any difference though). as said, they have picked up on this lately, tailgating and threatening driving - flashing lights etc - will get you a fine
this is precisely because it was becoming the national sport, and after one or two high profile cases ('turbo rolf' the merc test driver and the death of a woman)
2. your 80€ was probably not actually a fine, but a kind of pre-emptive bond thing, you'll get a letter later saying the court have decided to fine you 80€, thank you very much
3. you'll most likely get points on the database in Flensburg, if you drive a lot in germany and get nicked quite a lot, this can lead to your right to drive in germany being revoked until you do a psychological test and stricter german (re)test (has to be A LOT though)
this is precisely because it was becoming the national sport, and after one or two high profile cases ('turbo rolf' the merc test driver and the death of a woman)
2. your 80€ was probably not actually a fine, but a kind of pre-emptive bond thing, you'll get a letter later saying the court have decided to fine you 80€, thank you very much
3. you'll most likely get points on the database in Flensburg, if you drive a lot in germany and get nicked quite a lot, this can lead to your right to drive in germany being revoked until you do a psychological test and stricter german (re)test (has to be A LOT though)
Edited by hugoagogo on Friday 21st September 09:30
Yep spot on
"your 80€ was probably not actually a fine, but a kind of pre-emptive bond thing, you'll get a letter later saying the court have decided to fine you 80€, thank you very much"
This is the same that happened to me years ago near to Hahn . Police with lollipop small VW van and a radar. Huge amount of paperwork . They looked in a book , got the calc out and then 90 DM payment . Months later letter turned up in UK stating as above . ",We found you guilty and fine you 90 DM . Real low stress and cost compared to UK.
They do keep a virtual DL database that if you are pulled a lot the fine gets higher .
"your 80€ was probably not actually a fine, but a kind of pre-emptive bond thing, you'll get a letter later saying the court have decided to fine you 80€, thank you very much"
This is the same that happened to me years ago near to Hahn . Police with lollipop small VW van and a radar. Huge amount of paperwork . They looked in a book , got the calc out and then 90 DM payment . Months later letter turned up in UK stating as above . ",We found you guilty and fine you 90 DM . Real low stress and cost compared to UK.
They do keep a virtual DL database that if you are pulled a lot the fine gets higher .
i forgot, there are very simple ways to check what the fine should be
www.bussgeldkataloge.de has a simple calculator for speeding and 'abstand' or 'distance from the car in front'
(click on 'bußgeldrechner' in the top left)
you said 100kmh, and 15m?
[b]Bei 100 km/h drohen folgende Strafen:
Ab 25 m Abstand: 35 Euro.
Weniger als 25 m Abstand: 40 Euro und 1 Punkt.
Weniger als 20 m Abstand: 60 Euro und 2 Punkte.
Weniger als 15 m Abstand: 100 Euro und 3 Punkte.
Weniger als 10 m Abstand: 150 Euro, 4 Punkte.
Weniger als 5 m Abstand: 200 Euro, 4 Punkte.
Alle Angaben ohne Gewähr.[/b]
should have been 100, maybe they reckoned it slightly slower or slightly further
the fine paperwork will have some complicated calculation like "less than 3/16 of 1/2 of the speedo reading"
www.bussgeldkataloge.de has a simple calculator for speeding and 'abstand' or 'distance from the car in front'
(click on 'bußgeldrechner' in the top left)
you said 100kmh, and 15m?
[b]Bei 100 km/h drohen folgende Strafen:
Ab 25 m Abstand: 35 Euro.
Weniger als 25 m Abstand: 40 Euro und 1 Punkt.
Weniger als 20 m Abstand: 60 Euro und 2 Punkte.
Weniger als 15 m Abstand: 100 Euro und 3 Punkte.
Weniger als 10 m Abstand: 150 Euro, 4 Punkte.
Weniger als 5 m Abstand: 200 Euro, 4 Punkte.
Alle Angaben ohne Gewähr.[/b]
should have been 100, maybe they reckoned it slightly slower or slightly further
the fine paperwork will have some complicated calculation like "less than 3/16 of 1/2 of the speedo reading"
Edited by hugoagogo on Friday 21st September 13:08
ts[quote=hugoagogo]1. you were in the wrong, so was the guy in front (doesn't make any difference though). as said, they have picked up on this lately, tailgating and threatening driving - flashing lights etc - will get you a fine
this is precisely because it was becoming the national sport, and after one or two high profile cases ('turbo rolf' the merc test driver and the death of a woman)
2. your 80€ was probably not actually a fine, but a kind of pre-emptive bond thing, you'll get a letter later saying the court have decided to fine you 80€, thank you very much
3. you'll most likely get points on the database in Flensburg, if you drive a lot in germany and get nicked quite a lot, this can lead to your right to drive in germany being revoked until you do a psychological test and stricter german (re)test (has to be A LOT though)
I do a lot for driving in Germany, basically every summer, and have been been stopped twice (within 2 weeks) and thats it. Do you have any idea how much is A LOT? I did receive a letter through the post for the first time I was stopped for speeding (all written in German although they obviously know I'm English) asking me to pay an administration fee on top of the money that I have all ready paid. Only thing is thay have not written my number plate down correctly (they mistook a G for a C)and they have said that my car was a Peugeot when it is a SEAT. They didn't even get my address correct so I am surprised that the letter made it here. Does this mean I can get away without paying anything else?
this is precisely because it was becoming the national sport, and after one or two high profile cases ('turbo rolf' the merc test driver and the death of a woman)
2. your 80€ was probably not actually a fine, but a kind of pre-emptive bond thing, you'll get a letter later saying the court have decided to fine you 80€, thank you very much
3. you'll most likely get points on the database in Flensburg, if you drive a lot in germany and get nicked quite a lot, this can lead to your right to drive in germany being revoked until you do a psychological test and stricter german (re)test (has to be A LOT though)
I do a lot for driving in Germany, basically every summer, and have been been stopped twice (within 2 weeks) and thats it. Do you have any idea how much is A LOT? I did receive a letter through the post for the first time I was stopped for speeding (all written in German although they obviously know I'm English) asking me to pay an administration fee on top of the money that I have all ready paid. Only thing is thay have not written my number plate down correctly (they mistook a G for a C)and they have said that my car was a Peugeot when it is a SEAT. They didn't even get my address correct so I am surprised that the letter made it here. Does this mean I can get away without paying anything else?
probably, but they might well catch up with you next time you get a pull in germany
'A LOT' is 17 points (i had 16 at one time
) within five years (points disappear after 2 years UNLESS you've got some more in the meantime, then they all stay for up to five years from the original offence)
'A LOT' is 17 points (i had 16 at one time
) within five years (points disappear after 2 years UNLESS you've got some more in the meantime, then they all stay for up to five years from the original offence)if it doesn't mention points, then in theory you haven't got any
it should say something about punkte being eingetragen in the Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt in Flensburg, usually right under the amount of the fine
i have heard of people not registered as living in germany only getting fines and not points for quite 'bad' offences though
if they do give you points on this 'flensburger konto' they have to tell you when it gets to, i think, 11 points, when you have the option of doing a course that will reduce your points (you can do this earlier, but they don't have to tell you until 11) then at , i think, 14 points you HAVE TO do this course, with no reduction
if they don't tell you this, the law says they can't ban you
there's a standard form letter you can send to flensburg where they send back your points history, if you have legal cover any german lawyer can do this. it's worth getting cheap legal cover for this, from the ADAC or someone, cos sometimes these guys can find a simple loophole (i know a bloke in düsseldorf if you need one) and if you ever do have to go to court, you're ok
as a general guide, up to 20kph over the limit - no points
21-25kph - 1 point
25-30kph - 3 points
then climbing from there
it should say something about punkte being eingetragen in the Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt in Flensburg, usually right under the amount of the fine
i have heard of people not registered as living in germany only getting fines and not points for quite 'bad' offences though
if they do give you points on this 'flensburger konto' they have to tell you when it gets to, i think, 11 points, when you have the option of doing a course that will reduce your points (you can do this earlier, but they don't have to tell you until 11) then at , i think, 14 points you HAVE TO do this course, with no reduction
if they don't tell you this, the law says they can't ban you
there's a standard form letter you can send to flensburg where they send back your points history, if you have legal cover any german lawyer can do this. it's worth getting cheap legal cover for this, from the ADAC or someone, cos sometimes these guys can find a simple loophole (i know a bloke in düsseldorf if you need one) and if you ever do have to go to court, you're ok
as a general guide, up to 20kph over the limit - no points
21-25kph - 1 point
25-30kph - 3 points
then climbing from there
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