1989 Porsche 911 clutch
Discussion
Ive got a 1989 911 3.2 Carerra sport that needs a new clutch. the current one slips when really giving the car the right boot, but otherwise is fine.
I have found a Sachs kit of parts on Eurocarparts for £375 inc VAT.
How much should a indie specialist charge to fit this?
Any tips or things to watch out for please?
TiA.
Rav
I have found a Sachs kit of parts on Eurocarparts for £375 inc VAT.
How much should a indie specialist charge to fit this?
Any tips or things to watch out for please?
TiA.
Rav
Rav do yourself a very big favour and go and buy a genuine Porsche clutch kit. Take it from me they are not the same regardless of their claims. They maybe manufactured by the same company but they do not have the same weight or feel. Secondly if I was an independant and you turn up with your own clutch kit I would be inclined unless I was desperate for work to suggest that if you were clever enough to go and buy your own cluch kit you must be clever enough to install the unit yourself. Bear in mind that the indie will probably only get 20% discount of Porsche retail price if that so he is not making a fortune from supplying and installing a new clutch assembly.
Buy the sachs clutch it is OE spec for your car.
I've seen a few companies, mostly down london way that are pretty reasonable for clutch jobs, have a flick through 911 and porsche worlds classifieds, I would guess £5-600 including clutch. I'd advise you to try to get a clutch kit from the us if you can, try allzim.com thats who I got my 964 clutch from and with the exchange rate it worked out very cheap!
I do my own clutches, but it is one job I would really say very few home mechanics should try, it isn't complicated but it is heavy and hard work, and you need to know what your doing. Lets put it this way I would happily pay 200 quid for someone else to do the job and anyone who knows how tight I am knows how much that shows I hate the job!
On the positive I will be amazed if the flywheel is damaged, especially if it has only just started to slip, the plates seem to wear out on the pressure plate side first and obviously you change the pressure plate.
You may as well get a full service done at the same time as the oil lines need breaking to drop the engine, and it is easier to set tappets etc with the motor out, also may as well bung new plugs in depending how old they are.
Oliver
I've seen a few companies, mostly down london way that are pretty reasonable for clutch jobs, have a flick through 911 and porsche worlds classifieds, I would guess £5-600 including clutch. I'd advise you to try to get a clutch kit from the us if you can, try allzim.com thats who I got my 964 clutch from and with the exchange rate it worked out very cheap!
I do my own clutches, but it is one job I would really say very few home mechanics should try, it isn't complicated but it is heavy and hard work, and you need to know what your doing. Lets put it this way I would happily pay 200 quid for someone else to do the job and anyone who knows how tight I am knows how much that shows I hate the job!
On the positive I will be amazed if the flywheel is damaged, especially if it has only just started to slip, the plates seem to wear out on the pressure plate side first and obviously you change the pressure plate.
You may as well get a full service done at the same time as the oil lines need breaking to drop the engine, and it is easier to set tappets etc with the motor out, also may as well bung new plugs in depending how old they are.
Oliver
Speak to any Porsche garage that has stuck lots of clutch kits in Porsche's and they'll all tell you that they are not the same. They are cheaper for a reason. For the sake of what a £100 it pointless.
No different to brake discs stated OE. They warp, Genuine Porsche does not. However you pays your money and you makes the choice. Just trying to be helpful.
No different to brake discs stated OE. They warp, Genuine Porsche does not. However you pays your money and you makes the choice. Just trying to be helpful.
graeme36s said:
Speak to any Porsche garage that has stuck lots of clutch kits in Porsche's and they'll all tell you that they are not the same. They are cheaper for a reason. For the sake of what a £100 it pointless.
No different to brake discs stated OE. They warp, Genuine Porsche does not. However you pays your money and you makes the choice. Just trying to be helpful.
Sure, but Sachs are not some cheapo aftermarket outfit. They're a high quality specialist and I doubt they would sell inferior quality stuff. Porsche are bound to mark up their prices. Anyone know if the Porsche supplied clutches are really any better? Or is it the same part with a Porsche sticker?No different to brake discs stated OE. They warp, Genuine Porsche does not. However you pays your money and you makes the choice. Just trying to be helpful.
graeme36s said:
No different to brake discs stated OE. They warp, Genuine Porsche does not.
Not my experience on a similar car (SC 204bhp race car). I had braking problems my first season and one of the things we tried changing was the discs - to genuine Porsche. If anything (though nothing in it really) they warped quicker than the Zimmerman items I used before and have used ever since.Porsche do not make clutches. Sachs clutches are the same as those Porsche supply, but without the Porsche box, same as (depending on model) Pagid or Textar brake pads are the same whether they come in the manufacturer's box or if they've been placed in a box with Porsche written on the side.
Buy whatever makes you happiest but I'm not too bothered about what's written on the boxes I throw away.
graeme36s said:
Speak to any Porsche garage that has stuck lots of clutch kits in Porsche's and they'll all tell you that they are not the same. They are cheaper for a reason. For the sake of what a £100 it pointless.
No different to brake discs stated OE. They warp, Genuine Porsche does not. However you pays your money and you makes the choice. Just trying to be helpful.
I am with graeme on this.............they should be the same but they are not.one looks and feels like a quality item the other doesnt, put the two side by side and you can tell.....its false economyNo different to brake discs stated OE. They warp, Genuine Porsche does not. However you pays your money and you makes the choice. Just trying to be helpful.
This nonsense irritates me, the sachs part is the same as the porsche part. As stated Porsche do not make clutches sachs do, porsche then buy the sachs clutch and put it in a porsche box. The Porsche clutch I took out of mine was a sachs part, I then ordered a new clutch from Porsche and guess what......Sachs part.
Next time I ordered the sachs parts from elsewhere and saved a big lump of money. Guess what.....Same part numbers, same parts, identical, same, etc.
There are lots of things that are the same as Porsche (and indeed any other manufacturer) but in different boxes, take textar pads for instance, when you send your pride and joy to an OPC guess what gets fitted, Textar pads, why? Because they are the same but cheaper.
HOWEVER spurious parts should be avoided, I bought a handbrake cable from a well known online supplier, bought the £5 cheaper spurious part, didn't fit, and was damaged in the fitting process so couldn't be returned, so cost me the price of the spurious part and the genuine one.
Just requires common sense thats all.
What I will say is if buying parts in genuine boxes makes you feel better or you imagine a difference great you spend the extra money, but don't try to put other people off because seriously the parts in this case are the same.
On the whole subject of imagined differences an amusing story for you:
I used to sell cars, sadly never Porsche's the highest I rose was Alfa Romeo, but when working for renault and citroen we used to sell this useless product called platinum paint protection, it was basically snake oil, was supposed to seal the paint and protect it, give a better finish and make it easier to maintain, it is still available in various different names.
The method of selling would be to walk a customer up to the nearest car in the showroom and demonstrate the fact that we had paint protected half the bonnet, and asked them to rub the back of their hand over the two halves (as the back of the hand glides much easier over the paint, makes it feel slippery and is much less sensitive than the bottom of the hand).
Guess what....9 out of 10 customers perceived a difference, not because they believed me or could feel a difference but the presentation made it believable, which is one of the big reasons vw still manages to sell overpriced, underbuilt and out of date cars.
Rant over.
Next time I ordered the sachs parts from elsewhere and saved a big lump of money. Guess what.....Same part numbers, same parts, identical, same, etc.
There are lots of things that are the same as Porsche (and indeed any other manufacturer) but in different boxes, take textar pads for instance, when you send your pride and joy to an OPC guess what gets fitted, Textar pads, why? Because they are the same but cheaper.
HOWEVER spurious parts should be avoided, I bought a handbrake cable from a well known online supplier, bought the £5 cheaper spurious part, didn't fit, and was damaged in the fitting process so couldn't be returned, so cost me the price of the spurious part and the genuine one.
Just requires common sense thats all.
What I will say is if buying parts in genuine boxes makes you feel better or you imagine a difference great you spend the extra money, but don't try to put other people off because seriously the parts in this case are the same.
On the whole subject of imagined differences an amusing story for you:
I used to sell cars, sadly never Porsche's the highest I rose was Alfa Romeo, but when working for renault and citroen we used to sell this useless product called platinum paint protection, it was basically snake oil, was supposed to seal the paint and protect it, give a better finish and make it easier to maintain, it is still available in various different names.
The method of selling would be to walk a customer up to the nearest car in the showroom and demonstrate the fact that we had paint protected half the bonnet, and asked them to rub the back of their hand over the two halves (as the back of the hand glides much easier over the paint, makes it feel slippery and is much less sensitive than the bottom of the hand).
Guess what....9 out of 10 customers perceived a difference, not because they believed me or could feel a difference but the presentation made it believable, which is one of the big reasons vw still manages to sell overpriced, underbuilt and out of date cars.
Rant over.
Ollie..........
now breathe.
I put a sachs power clutch in mine when it was done by the mighty Pragon in Five Ashes.
It looked the bo
ocks, so did the bill.
Ooops, soon came to £1650 [ no doubt paid for sumpters CGT!]
with flywheel, RMS trans gaitors etc.
Did the lot while it was out.
Ill remember the car a lot longer than the money.
now breathe.
I put a sachs power clutch in mine when it was done by the mighty Pragon in Five Ashes.
It looked the bo
ocks, so did the bill.Ooops, soon came to £1650 [ no doubt paid for sumpters CGT!]
with flywheel, RMS trans gaitors etc.
Did the lot while it was out.
Ill remember the car a lot longer than the money.
stuttgartmetal said:
Ollie..........
now breathe.
I put a sachs power clutch in mine when it was done by the mighty Pragon in Five Ashes.
It looked the boocks, so did the bill.
Ooops, soon came to £1650 [ no doubt paid for sumpters CGT!]
with flywheel, RMS trans gaitors etc.
Did the lot while it was out.
Ill remember the car a lot longer than the money.
But in this case, as discussed previously, he's selling the car so whilst it makes good sense to do such jobs with the lump out it wont happen in this case.now breathe.
I put a sachs power clutch in mine when it was done by the mighty Pragon in Five Ashes.
It looked the bo
ocks, so did the bill.Ooops, soon came to £1650 [ no doubt paid for sumpters CGT!]
with flywheel, RMS trans gaitors etc.
Did the lot while it was out.
Ill remember the car a lot longer than the money.
uktrailmonster said:
Why would a genuine Sachs clutch be any different than an official Porsche one made by Sachs? I don't know the answer by the way, just curious.
I did mine six months ago, and I can honestly say hat there was no evidence to suggest that it had ever been changed (especially with respect to the release fork pin) and the new Sachs job was visually identical to the old one, except that the new one was obviously new.I mean, even the areas between the machined and umachined castings were the same. That to me says the that they used the same manufacturing process, and the same patterns for the castings.
But hey, I don't mind if people want to pay more..... It's your money!
If you ask me, the Porsche clutch is more expensive, because Porsche recognise that clutches are heavy and unweildly. They also recognise that other people can produce relatively standard things like this better than they can. There probably isn't as much room for them to make a heathy profit on a clutch than there is on a whole Cayenne, and they don't want the image of a grotty aftermarket parts outfit.
In general I suspect that you pay more fora Porsche clutch because they'd rather you buy a Sachs one!
The Sachs lightweight clutch is a different beast, however, whilst it's better in many respects, the standard porsche/sachs clutch is pretty much as bulletproof as something like a clutch is going to get.
The other thing to be very aware of with the clutch is all the other things that need to be done because of the clutch change. Many problems on a car like this are lurking. They're fine all the time that you leave them alone, but if you do something invasive like the clutch, it is difficult to avoid the escalation of costs in other areas.
I actually think that you've made the right decision to get the clutch yourself and give it to the mechanic. It sets a precedent. Get the mechanic to look at your particular car, and ask him what he thinks the worst it could cost is. It's a safer bet overall, and at the end of the day, if you want it done right, it's going to cost what it costs.
I can't advise on your car and I only have the experience of doing mine. Whereas a mechanic will (hopefully) have the experience of many. For reference mine ended up costing £1250, just in parts. I did the job myself. No flywheel needed, standard sachs clutch, new fork, pin and bearings.... I had the starter reconditioned, did loads of gaiters, throttle linkage, fuel pipes, slave cylinder, rear disks and drums, all new nuts and bolts.
Probably best described as the light duty mid section overhaul (No gearbox). Next up is the heavy duty rear end overhaul! (When I can afford it)!
Edited by dilbert on Thursday 27th September 23:08
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