Help! I want an R1 enigined Westfield/Locost but........
Discussion
Hi! Im new to this site but could do with a bit of help! I just sold my Skyline GTST and want to replace it but can't make up my mind for various reasons what to buy! I've narrowed it down to 3 cars:
Skyline R32 GTR (not standard spec) but unsure as 4wd
TVR Chimaera 4.0 HC
Westfield/Locost R1 engined kit car
I'm struggling to find any info about the performance of the bec compared to other road cars so bit unsure. Any help really appreciated!
Skyline R32 GTR (not standard spec) but unsure as 4wd
TVR Chimaera 4.0 HC
Westfield/Locost R1 engined kit car
I'm struggling to find any info about the performance of the bec compared to other road cars so bit unsure. Any help really appreciated!
May I suggest either the Westfield site (http://boardroom.wscc.co.uk/) or the locost website (http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/)? I have never been in a Skyline, so couldn't say how fast they are or how they handle, I can tell you a BEC 7 will give you a huge grin every time you start it up. They handle like I couldn't believe and aren't as fragile as people will lead you to believe.
Editted to add that weties make three (IIRC) bec's, the megablade/bird/busa. This being powered by either the fireblade, blackbird or hyabusa engines.
Editted to add that weties make three (IIRC) bec's, the megablade/bird/busa. This being powered by either the fireblade, blackbird or hyabusa engines.
Edited by Snake the Sniper on Saturday 29th September 19:49
Westfield/Locost R1 means you should probobly be looking at an MK Indy R1. Westfield do not make an R1 car to my knowledge. £7-10K will buy you and awesome MK Indy. There are several about at the moment, R1, Fireblade and zx9. My only advice is try to get a go in one first. Your shortlist includes a Skyline GTR also....... one of those cars is an absolute tool which you can get away with murder in while driving around at 100mph.......and the other is an MK Indy. On paper figures may be similar, 0-60 4 secs, 0-100 under 10 secs, but that is where the similarity ends. The Skyline takes very little skill to drive fast in any weather,like a Subaru or EVO, the MK (and all other lightweight BEC's come to that) is a different proposition altogether. It will kick your ass if you let it, big style. No ABS, traction control, power steering, servo, active yaw control, ect. ect.
In short, be honest with yourself what you want to do with the car (either one) or you will end up with something you do not really want.
Go (very) fast on public roads, all weather, big flames, 400bhp, 15mpg and monster running costs (even bigger if you track it), idiot proof handling, take the Skyline.
Trackday special, sunny weather or "Motorbike gear on" driving (like me!) minimal running costs, 30mpg, fast as f*** on track, but be prepared to go back to school with proper car control, take the MK.
In short, be honest with yourself what you want to do with the car (either one) or you will end up with something you do not really want.
Go (very) fast on public roads, all weather, big flames, 400bhp, 15mpg and monster running costs (even bigger if you track it), idiot proof handling, take the Skyline.
Trackday special, sunny weather or "Motorbike gear on" driving (like me!) minimal running costs, 30mpg, fast as f*** on track, but be prepared to go back to school with proper car control, take the MK.
also check out stuart taylor motorsport if you like the BEC route... they have more trophys in their cabinet than Man U.
http://www.stuart-taylor.co.uk/
http://www.stuart-taylor.co.uk/
I just noticed you were asking about performance figures. On the road, BECs are not that amazing (in my experience) due to their lightweight and the state of our roads. They are a bit "lively" and take a lot of concentration to drive fast as if you get it wrong only YOU can save yourself. On country lanes, my wifes Subaru is probobly just as quick, in the R1 Phoenix I COULD be quicker but i would quite literally scare the s*** out of myself doing it!!! On track they are a different proposition altogether. The R1 car would murder it. In a straight line BEC's are as quick as most things, but they score in slow to medium speed bends where they handle like big go-karts. There is nothing like throwing it through a tight chicane at 40mph and sliding it like a kart. If speed on a track is what you want, then there is NO way you can go quicker for less money, and certainly less running costs. They do not wear out tyres and brakes like normal cars, and a new engine and 6-speed sequential gearbox will set you back about £700 and 4 hours work.
Yep, depends on what performance parameter's you're looking at. If its standing start acceleration under three figures or track laptime / handling then the BEC will be quicker than the others in a straight line (unless the Skyline is tuned), and will murder either of them round most tracks pretty much regardless of the other car's state of tune.
As an example, here's a lap of Cadwell by Evo magazine in a 997 GT3RS, which Im sure would be significantly quicker than a Skyline or Chimaera, and here's a lap in my Locost R1, which (only from rough timing on the video admittedly) seems to be a good 1-2s quicker than the Porker despite me driving!
If its high speed acceleration you're looking at though, or you're wanting a car with some chance of it being usable regularly on the road, not just Sunny weekends, then the other two are going to tick more of your boxes.
As an example, here's a lap of Cadwell by Evo magazine in a 997 GT3RS, which Im sure would be significantly quicker than a Skyline or Chimaera, and here's a lap in my Locost R1, which (only from rough timing on the video admittedly) seems to be a good 1-2s quicker than the Porker despite me driving!
If its high speed acceleration you're looking at though, or you're wanting a car with some chance of it being usable regularly on the road, not just Sunny weekends, then the other two are going to tick more of your boxes.
Edited by LocoBlade on Saturday 29th September 20:47
Furyblade_Lee said:
I just noticed you were asking about performance figures. On the road, BECs are not that amazing (in my experience) due to their lightweight and the state of our roads. They are a bit "lively" and take a lot of concentration to drive fast as if you get it wrong only YOU can save yourself. On country lanes, my wifes Subaru is probobly just as quick, in the R1 Phoenix I COULD be quicker but i would quite literally scare the s*** out of myself doing it!!! On track they are a different proposition altogether. The R1 car would murder it. In a straight line BEC's are as quick as most things, but they score in slow to medium speed bends where they handle like big go-karts. There is nothing like throwing it through a tight chicane at 40mph and sliding it like a kart. If speed on a track is what you want, then there is NO way you can go quicker for less money, and certainly less running costs. They do not wear out tyres and brakes like normal cars, and a new engine and 6-speed sequential gearbox will set you back about £700 and 4 hours work.
Hi Furyblade Lee, I note from your profile you have an R1 STM Phoenix.... awesome bit of kit and was what I nearly went for before I bought my Caterham... How are you enjoying it? is it track only, or road as well? Cheers JakeR
ETA: and you're a Surrey boy as well
Edited by JakeR on Saturday 29th September 21:12
Don't take Lee's word for it - he's a serious nutter!
We were both in a recent party to Zolder for a two day track event. Lee and his delightful drove there and back in the R1 (Whilst the rest of us had roofs or hoods at least) and then promptly got on track and murdered most of the opposition. I think he calls GT3s 'meat' and that makes me 'easy meat'!
I am very suprised that a BEC and the heavyweight road cars are on the same wish list. It really is like chalk and cheese. If your fast car experiences are built on the likes af a quick Skyline, then you must get some time in a BEC before you buy. The BEC will be fast on the track, very, very fast; but the manner of it doing so will be a different world in driving experience from the computer assisted world of the Skyline.
We were both in a recent party to Zolder for a two day track event. Lee and his delightful drove there and back in the R1 (Whilst the rest of us had roofs or hoods at least) and then promptly got on track and murdered most of the opposition. I think he calls GT3s 'meat' and that makes me 'easy meat'!
I am very suprised that a BEC and the heavyweight road cars are on the same wish list. It really is like chalk and cheese. If your fast car experiences are built on the likes af a quick Skyline, then you must get some time in a BEC before you buy. The BEC will be fast on the track, very, very fast; but the manner of it doing so will be a different world in driving experience from the computer assisted world of the Skyline.
There are other R1 engined kit cars out there too!
I wanted the performance but not an open wheel design, so I went for a Fisher Fury. If it's seven style you want, I'd say go for a Striker myself.
Rob
http://www.robcollingridge.com/FuryR1/
I wanted the performance but not an open wheel design, so I went for a Fisher Fury. If it's seven style you want, I'd say go for a Striker myself.
Rob
http://www.robcollingridge.com/FuryR1/
Cheers for your help! I know the cars I have shortlisted are all very different. I won't be using the car on track, will be as a second car. Must admit I am growing on the idea of the chimaera as a balance between the other two, and the idea of the big v8 is v appealing! Just concerned about the prices of chimaera engines as I am far from rich lol! and have heard of many problems with 32 gtr gearboxes, but I do understand none can be driven on a budget. I am unsure about trying a GTR as from what I have seen they are difficult to sell and 4wd is a bit off putting as my previous cars include 325i, 200sx, mr2 turbo and skyline GTS
d1.wiganer said:
Just concerned about the prices of chimaera engines as I am far from rich lol!
The chimaera engines are the RV8 and are pretty reliable so i don't know why your concerned, the only trouble is the 4.0 aint that quick(or the 5.0 IMO) and unless you spend money on suspension they don't handle either, i was totally unimpressedIf the performance of a Chim HC 280bhp is similar to that of a stage 2 GTR roughly 350bhp I must admit the sound of the V8 is v tempting! What model Chim was yours? did u have any problems with it and was the car easy to sell? Handling not too much of an issue as to me you cant beat Rwd and power! How did your Chim compare performance wise to other road cars? cheers!
Never had a Chimaera have a look at my profile
You quote 280bhp that would be TVR's own figures for a 4.0, a good 5.0 is usually only 275bhp(TVR quote 320-340) although you do get the odd one with more and some with less, TVR are always very optomistic with their figures.
You quote 280bhp that would be TVR's own figures for a 4.0, a good 5.0 is usually only 275bhp(TVR quote 320-340) although you do get the odd one with more and some with less, TVR are always very optomistic with their figures.
Edited by X-man on Sunday 30th September 15:03
Edited by X-man on Sunday 30th September 15:18
Given your other choices and given that you won't be taking it on track, I think a BEC is going to be too extreme for what you want the car for. Personally I don't really enjoy driving my car on the road that much and the few times per year it gets out on the road is hard to justify without tracking it, where it really makes sense and comes alive.
There are people that drive BECs regularly (or any quick Sevens for that matter), but I think you need to have the mentality similar to people that regularly ride a motorbike in terms of the pre drive preparation required (helmet, waterproofs etc) and accepting that when you get to your destination you'll look like you've been dragged through a hedge backwards!
There are people that drive BECs regularly (or any quick Sevens for that matter), but I think you need to have the mentality similar to people that regularly ride a motorbike in terms of the pre drive preparation required (helmet, waterproofs etc) and accepting that when you get to your destination you'll look like you've been dragged through a hedge backwards!
Locoblade has a fair point there. I can't just jump in the Indy and naff off for a run. I have to check all the fluids, including the fuel as I have no gauge, find my waterproof jacket and driving fleece, and finally clean my helmet visor, as I tend to forget when I get in. I then have to go out, get the car out, start her up so the engine can begin getting warm. Then push her out onto the road (no reverse), get in, get comfy and do the harnesses up. Only then do I actually start driving! When I arrive at my destination I then stink of Indy fumes! I have no bother at all doing this (it only takes 15 mins), but others may not be so dedicated! 
I think the massive grin factor more than makes up for it.
I think the massive grin factor more than makes up for it.LocoBlade said:
Given your other choices and given that you won't be taking it on track, I think a BEC is going to be too extreme for what you want the car for. Personally I don't really enjoy driving my car on the road that much and the few times per year it gets out on the road is hard to justify without tracking it, where it really makes sense and comes alive.
Shame upon you! Whilst I admit the lack of doors, roof, reverse gear and the noise don't make it an everyday practical proposition, my Fury R1 was designed for the road :-)I'd agree though. If you want a car for everyday use, then don't get one with a bike engine. It's loud, raw, manic and you will want to drive everywhere far too quickly. Gear changes are clunky, hill starts require a lot of practice and kit cars are not really designed to survive the UK's salted, winter roads.
Personally, I run one as a second (third if you include the wife's) car and drive a cheap runaround in between my proper driving :-) Insurance for all three cars is less than £700 a year (fully comp, PNCD) and running costs for a BEC are pretty minimal given the low mileage. If you build it yourself, you are going to service it too, so all in all, they are very cheap cars to run. I seem to be averaging below 15mpg but that's a small price to pay for the enjoyment.
Rob
Addmitedly I haven't owned any of your suggestions, but here are a few thoughts....
1) The Skyline - to me (impressive as they are) - these feel like very fast 'everyday' cars. I wouldn't want one as a second car.
2) The BEC 'seven - I'm sure if you're prepared to drive it like a nutter it'll be faster than anything else you can get for the same price. Very full on, especially seems BEC kits tend to be mroe track orientated, so there's a good chance you won't get things like doors, full height screen, hood etc. Therefore it really does become difficult to use a car like that as anything other than a toy. I love my Sylva (although not BEC it's very minimal) but even after a few weeks it's annoying me I don't get the chance to drive it more often, which is why I'm thinking after a year or two blasting round in that my next purcahse might be......
3) TVR - a good old fashioned V8 sportscar should also be fairly 'full on' and feel much more special (IMHO) than an uber-saloon like a Skyline, M5 or Scooby. However it also has a decent boot, a waterproof hood, lockable doors and so on. Which means you can get your fix everyday on the way to work and back, not just on a sunny evening once you've got back, got the car out the garage, got all the appropriate gear on etc.
So, I'd be torn between 2 and 3. The bike engined car is probably marginally more exciting, but you may only get to use it once a week.
1) The Skyline - to me (impressive as they are) - these feel like very fast 'everyday' cars. I wouldn't want one as a second car.
2) The BEC 'seven - I'm sure if you're prepared to drive it like a nutter it'll be faster than anything else you can get for the same price. Very full on, especially seems BEC kits tend to be mroe track orientated, so there's a good chance you won't get things like doors, full height screen, hood etc. Therefore it really does become difficult to use a car like that as anything other than a toy. I love my Sylva (although not BEC it's very minimal) but even after a few weeks it's annoying me I don't get the chance to drive it more often, which is why I'm thinking after a year or two blasting round in that my next purcahse might be......
3) TVR - a good old fashioned V8 sportscar should also be fairly 'full on' and feel much more special (IMHO) than an uber-saloon like a Skyline, M5 or Scooby. However it also has a decent boot, a waterproof hood, lockable doors and so on. Which means you can get your fix everyday on the way to work and back, not just on a sunny evening once you've got back, got the car out the garage, got all the appropriate gear on etc.
So, I'd be torn between 2 and 3. The bike engined car is probably marginally more exciting, but you may only get to use it once a week.
IF TVR / V8 grunt and sound appeal, but handling , <4 sec 0-60mph of a Seven type roadster appeal, why not have best of both worlds and think about a Westfield Seight or Dax Rush V8 - 4.6ltrs in 600kg is ferocious yet tractable and cheap to maintain (only highly stressed part in a Seight or Dax Rush V8 is the driver / passenger !!).
Check out our website http://rushowners.se7ens.net/ and the link to Dax's own D J Sportscars website for more info and pictures. Dax aslo do a turbocharged Huyabusa based BEC version which is totally RAW!
Check out our website http://rushowners.se7ens.net/ and the link to Dax's own D J Sportscars website for more info and pictures. Dax aslo do a turbocharged Huyabusa based BEC version which is totally RAW!
Would take you up on your offer Lee, but I'm from North West! So couldn't see that happening...cheers though. Must admit the idea of a chimaera is growing on me as long as it has more power than my standard (ish) GTS did. I'm well into the idea of RWD (what the GTR isn't) and V8 power so thinking I may as well try one- can always sell it if it ain't for me!
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