Health & Safety hampers life-saving by police
Discussion
Living is a constant dynamic [if that's not a contradiction in terms]risk assessment, but formally requiring compliance with procedures (which might well require reading them, or having them read over the radio*, before throwing a life-belt?
The full policy statement reads:
"Devon and Cornwall Constabulary do not expect or require any member of staff to enter water in a rescue attempt of any person or animal under any circumstances. Life-saving equipment such as life-belt, throw line, throw bag or buoyancy aid may be used where such use is in accordance with dynamic risk assessment procedures."
It concludes:
"The task of rescuing members of the public, or animals, from water lies primarily with other emergency services that are equipped and trained for such tasks."
Streaky
The full policy statement reads:
"Devon and Cornwall Constabulary do not expect or require any member of staff to enter water in a rescue attempt of any person or animal under any circumstances. Life-saving equipment such as life-belt, throw line, throw bag or buoyancy aid may be used where such use is in accordance with dynamic risk assessment procedures."
It concludes:
"The task of rescuing members of the public, or animals, from water lies primarily with other emergency services that are equipped and trained for such tasks."
Streaky
* This is not to imply that police officers cannot read, merely that officers on foot (are there any?) might not have the paperwork to hand.
streaky said:
Living is a constant dynamic [if that's not a contradiction in terms]risk assessment, but formally requiring compliance with procedures (which might well require reading them, or having them read over the radio*, before throwing a life-belt?
The full policy statement reads:
"Devon and Cornwall Constabulary do not expect or require any member of staff to enter water in a rescue attempt of any person or animal under any circumstances. Life-saving equipment such as life-belt, throw line, throw bag or buoyancy aid may be used where such use is in accordance with dynamic risk assessment procedures."
It concludes:
"The task of rescuing members of the public, or animals, from water lies primarily with other emergency services that are equipped and trained for such tasks."
Streaky
I don't see anything unusual in that.The full policy statement reads:
"Devon and Cornwall Constabulary do not expect or require any member of staff to enter water in a rescue attempt of any person or animal under any circumstances. Life-saving equipment such as life-belt, throw line, throw bag or buoyancy aid may be used where such use is in accordance with dynamic risk assessment procedures."
It concludes:
"The task of rescuing members of the public, or animals, from water lies primarily with other emergency services that are equipped and trained for such tasks."
Streaky
* This is not to imply that police officers cannot read, merely that officers on foot (are there any?) might not have the paperwork to hand.
It doesn't say that they can't, just that it's not a requirement that they do. Quite standard fare today where your employer has not specifically trained you for that role.
vonhosen said:
streaky said:
Living is a constant dynamic [if that's not a contradiction in terms]risk assessment, but formally requiring compliance with procedures (which might well require reading them, or having them read over the radio*, before throwing a life-belt?
The full policy statement reads:
"Devon and Cornwall Constabulary do not expect or require any member of staff to enter water in a rescue attempt of any person or animal under any circumstances. Life-saving equipment such as life-belt, throw line, throw bag or buoyancy aid may be used where such use is in accordance with dynamic risk assessment procedures."
It concludes:
"The task of rescuing members of the public, or animals, from water lies primarily with other emergency services that are equipped and trained for such tasks."
Streaky
I don't see anything unusual in that.The full policy statement reads:
"Devon and Cornwall Constabulary do not expect or require any member of staff to enter water in a rescue attempt of any person or animal under any circumstances. Life-saving equipment such as life-belt, throw line, throw bag or buoyancy aid may be used where such use is in accordance with dynamic risk assessment procedures."
It concludes:
"The task of rescuing members of the public, or animals, from water lies primarily with other emergency services that are equipped and trained for such tasks."
Streaky
* This is not to imply that police officers cannot read, merely that officers on foot (are there any?) might not have the paperwork to hand.
It doesn't say that they can't, just that it's not a requirement that they do. Quite standard fare today where your employer has not specifically trained you for that role.
But back to the water issue. We have lots of water up here. The Waters here do have a nasty undercurrent despite the calm gloss on the surface. Time is of the essence in throwing out a life-line and getting the Rescue Teams to the scene. I don't think there is time to stop and think "must get out my handbook or radio management for advice" By the time - you've done that - person in trouble has either gone under or been pulled further out by the currents.
However, we have, fortunately, a good few local heroes amongst Cumbria's Police Force who have waded in and rescued folk in the past who were in trouble but not too far out from the banks and lake shores.
I guess we are just a common sense lot up here 
(tongue in cheek 
) Mad Moggie2 said:
vonhosen said:
streaky said:
Living is a constant dynamic [if that's not a contradiction in terms]risk assessment, but formally requiring compliance with procedures (which might well require reading them, or having them read over the radio*, before throwing a life-belt?
The full policy statement reads:
"Devon and Cornwall Constabulary do not expect or require any member of staff to enter water in a rescue attempt of any person or animal under any circumstances. Life-saving equipment such as life-belt, throw line, throw bag or buoyancy aid may be used where such use is in accordance with dynamic risk assessment procedures."
It concludes:
"The task of rescuing members of the public, or animals, from water lies primarily with other emergency services that are equipped and trained for such tasks."
Streaky
I don't see anything unusual in that.The full policy statement reads:
"Devon and Cornwall Constabulary do not expect or require any member of staff to enter water in a rescue attempt of any person or animal under any circumstances. Life-saving equipment such as life-belt, throw line, throw bag or buoyancy aid may be used where such use is in accordance with dynamic risk assessment procedures."
It concludes:
"The task of rescuing members of the public, or animals, from water lies primarily with other emergency services that are equipped and trained for such tasks."
Streaky
* This is not to imply that police officers cannot read, merely that officers on foot (are there any?) might not have the paperwork to hand.
It doesn't say that they can't, just that it's not a requirement that they do. Quite standard fare today where your employer has not specifically trained you for that role.
But back to the water issue. We have lots of water up here. The Waters here do have a nasty undercurrent despite the calm gloss on the surface. Time is of the essence in throwing out a life-line and getting the Rescue Teams to the scene. I don't think there is time to stop and think "must get out my handbook or radio management for advice" By the time - you've done that - person in trouble has either gone under or been pulled further out by the currents.
However, we have, fortunately, a good few local heroes amongst Cumbria's Police Force who have waded in and rescued folk in the past who were in trouble but not too far out from the banks and lake shores.
I guess we are just a common sense lot up here (tongue in cheek ) If you haven't had first aid training, then there is nothing to stop you stepping in. There is also nothing to stop the person you treat from suing you if you cock up.
The employer won't 'require' you to step in & deal with things you haven't been trained for, or it leaves them open to being sued by you if it goes wrong. If you do, it's your own decision.
They can 'require' you to act where it is part of your job & you have the right equipment & training to carry out that role.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 30th September 11:33
Mad Moggie2 said:
So.. if you are not trained by your employer in First Aid and came across someone lying unconscious in the street - you would not check to see if person was breathing, clear airways and instigate rescuscitation and place in recovery position?
If you hadn't had at least some some level of first aid training or experience then you wouldn't even know to do the above actions.vonhosen said:
That's not what I said.
If you haven't had first aid training, then there is nothing to stop you stepping in. There is also nothing to stop the person you treat from suing you if you cock up.
Yes there is. The Good Samaritans Act protects you from any law suits as long as you have acted in good faith with the intention of helping.If you haven't had first aid training, then there is nothing to stop you stepping in. There is also nothing to stop the person you treat from suing you if you cock up.
over_the_hill said:
vonhosen said:
That's not what I said.
If you haven't had first aid training, then there is nothing to stop you stepping in. There is also nothing to stop the person you treat from suing you if you cock up.
Yes there is. The Good Samaritans Act protects you from any law suits as long as you have acted in good faith with the intention of helping.If you haven't had first aid training, then there is nothing to stop you stepping in. There is also nothing to stop the person you treat from suing you if you cock up.
recall reading about some good samaritan who took the helmet off a biker rider who had crashed, despite the driver telling him not to, guy was just wanting to get him to breathe more easily... thing is the helmet was the only thing keeping his skull together, so when the helmet was removed, his brain fell out
Isn't this really just a way of passing the buck to the staff member when it all goes wrong? If the 'official policy' is that you don't do something and you know that but decide to do it anyway your boss can just point at the policy and wash his hands.
I'm reminded of the recent PCSO / drowning boy story and this blog http://blog.ippimail.com/cyberitinerantz/?p=6
I'm reminded of the recent PCSO / drowning boy story and this blog http://blog.ippimail.com/cyberitinerantz/?p=6
Mad Moggie2 said:
However, we have, fortunately, a good few local heroes amongst Cumbria's Police Force who have waded in and rescued folk in the past who were in trouble but not too far out from the banks and lake shores. I guess we are just a common sense lot up here (tongue in cheek )
So having noted those in trouble are 'not too far out from the banks and lake shores' and decided to enter the water taking that into account haven't these officers carried out a 'dynamic risk assessment'? I guess we are just a common sense lot up here (tongue in cheek ) Heroism is usually associated with those who throw caution to the wind and jump in regardless of the risk.
As a counter-point:
... a teenager drowned when he was thrown in a lake by a gang and pelted with stones to stop him climbing out.
[ ... ]
Martin Eaton, of West Midlands Ambulance Service, said, "When [ambulance] crews arrived, they found two police officers searching in the water."
Sadly they could not find the boy in time to save him. Let's hope they don'y get into trouble with the H&S 'police' in their force - Streaky
PS - two men have been arrested in connection - S
... a teenager drowned when he was thrown in a lake by a gang and pelted with stones to stop him climbing out.
[ ... ]
Martin Eaton, of West Midlands Ambulance Service, said, "When [ambulance] crews arrived, they found two police officers searching in the water."
Sadly they could not find the boy in time to save him. Let's hope they don'y get into trouble with the H&S 'police' in their force - Streaky
PS - two men have been arrested in connection - S
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