Turbo'ing the Merc V8

[Burba]

I assume it's possible to do so, dependant on reworking the bay to include the trubo, cooler, pipework etc.

Question is, what do I go for and where can I look to get more information about going about doing something like this.

It's the 5.0 V8 in the ML, and i'm considering tuning the block and turbo'ing it to get good strong numbers. In standard spec it's 300 odd so i'd be looking for 450-500.

Or is it cheaper to souce an SL/CL55 engine and install?

[SplatSpeed]

what a good idea

[chuntington101]

sounds like a great plan mate!

the engine should beable to take 5psi no problems. what year is it??

Chris.

[Burba]

well i'm glad to hear i haven't been laughed out the room

It's an 03 car, with 40k on the clock currently.

I'm going to lose more money chopping it in and trying to upgrade to a CayTur or similar so why not look at alternatives right?

[SplatSpeed]

i think 10 psi with an intercooler should be good

[Burba]

ok, so i've figured out that i have options on boost levels ...

... but what turbo's, pipework, coolers should i be looking at.
specs and links would be good too!

[SplatSpeed]

Burba said:

ok, so i've figured out that i have options on boost levels ...

... but what turbo's, pipework, coolers should i be looking at.
specs and links would be good too!

if you can make it to the south coast

i could run a simulation if i can find the file for your engine

[Howitzer]

Is that the M119 engine?

If so I would forget turbos and fit a Procharger, more effective on an engine like that imo, one mainly for the road.

I'm building a 5.6 V8 Twin Turbo for my MK1 Escort, Merc blocks are incredibly strong and the internals are well made.

Go for it !!

Dave!

[chuntington101]

Burba said:

ok, so i've figured out that i have options on boost levels ...

... but what turbo's, pipework, coolers should i be looking at.
specs and links would be good too!

well you have 5.0ltrs to spin the turbos up so id go for something like Garrett GT28R's. should flow enough. intercooler, well as big as you can.

on the turbo loctaion, and i know im going to get laughd at for this one, but have you thought about puting them at the back?? there is a US comapny that sells rwmote turbo systems and they are pretty good. ok they dont spool quiet as fast as front mounts and they might make a little less power. but they are a dam sight easier to fit in there! lol

if you just running something small like a GT35R (600bhp turbo) on a 5.0ltr and you will have almost instant responce and gobs of power! the exhaust side isn't to hard as you normal use most of the stock system, just replacing the back section (and the silencer) with the turbo and downpipe that can carry a silencer if you want. intake piping can be a pain but on your type of car (high off the ground) there will be loads of clearance for the cold piping.

here is a link, i can post a few sites where there are loads of guys using these kits and getting GOOD numbers.

http://www.ststurbo.com/

here is some of the SUV/offroaders/trucks they do kits for:

http://www.ststurbo.com/gm_trucks - GM trucks
http://www.ststurbo.com/hummer_h2 - Hummer
http://www.ststurbo.com/dodge_ram_srt_10 - doge ram Srt-10 (the V10 viper engined one!)

what you think???

Chris.

[Howitzer]

I think will be more work to fit turbos, also forget about Intercoolers in a tight configuration like that.

Chargecoolers, and a Procharger would be a good practical set up.

Dave!

[chuntington101]

Howitzer said:

I think will be more work to fit turbos, also forget about Intercoolers in a tight configuration like that.

Chargecoolers, and a Procharger would be a good practical set up.

Dave!

Dave, why would remote turbos be harder to fit than a procharger?? Procharger dont make brakets for the Merc so they would have to be custom made up. also if the engine bay it tight already then trying to hang a supercharger on it isn't going to help. not sure on the layout of the car but you will need to sit the 'charger either at thr front, or to the side.

the remote turbo will basically sit where the back box(s) once lived. then it just a casue of finding a decent route for the cold piping to the front. a small air 2 air cooler could be best for road drving.

also the way the Prochager dilivers its boost is high up the rpm band. this is gread on a car that you can rev the nuts off and keep it reving but i dont think the Merc fits the bill. a better option would be a 'charger from a supercharded merc, but then you might as well do the whole engine swap! lol

thansk Chris.

[Pentoman]

The basic block should be strong for plenty of power. I like the idea of the turbos .
The Merc tuners tend to go with superchargers though on all the more recent Merc engines, perhaps due to packaging? Could be worth browsing Carlsson, Renntech, AMG, Brabus and so on to get an idea of what they do the engine. Costs will be through the roof I imagine though!

edit:
Here you go http://www.renntechmercedes.com/w163_pricelist.pdf


ML 500
288 hp @ 5600 rpm; 325 lb-ft @ 2700 - 4250 rpm
___________________________________________________________________
RENNtech ECU upgrade** 1495
part No. 54_163_00_31
HP gain 10 hp TOTAL HP 298 @ 5600 rpm
TQ gain 12 lb-ft TOTAL TQ 337 @ 2700 - 4250 rpm
___________________________________________________________________
PACKAGE 1
Carbon fiber airbox and ECU upgrade** 2395
part No. 01_163_00_09
HP gain 25 hp TOTAL HP 313 @ 5600 rpm
TQ gain 20 lb-ft TOTAL TQ 345 @ 3000 - 4600 rpm
___________________________________________________________________
PACKAGE 2
RENNtech Supercharger with Intercooler 15,900
and ECU upgrade**
part No. 09_163_00_34
HP gain 155 hp TOTAL HP 443 @ 5750 rpm
TQ gain 122 lb-ft TOTAL TQ 447 @ 2400 - 5900 rpm

Edited by Pentoman on Wednesday 3rd October 11:59

[Howitzer]

chuntington101 said:

Howitzer said:

I think will be more work to fit turbos, also forget about Intercoolers in a tight configuration like that.

Chargecoolers, and a Procharger would be a good practical set up.

Dave!

Dave, why would remote turbos be harder to fit than a procharger?? Procharger dont make brakets for the Merc so they would have to be custom made up. also if the engine bay it tight already then trying to hang a supercharger on it isn't going to help. not sure on the layout of the car but you will need to sit the 'charger either at thr front, or to the side.

the remote turbo will basically sit where the back box(s) once lived. then it just a casue of finding a decent route for the cold piping to the front. a small air 2 air cooler could be best for road drving.

also the way the Prochager dilivers its boost is high up the rpm band. this is gread on a car that you can rev the nuts off and keep it reving but i dont think the Merc fits the bill. a better option would be a 'charger from a supercharded merc, but then you might as well do the whole engine swap! lol

thansk Chris.

I think the idea of rear mounted turbos is great, but not for the UK. The road conataminents, thought of a high boosting turbo being soaked by a puddle, general grime etc would put me off. Making a custom bracket is a few hours of work where making a new exhaust system would be the same surely?

Also you have to think how the gearbox will be affected by the changes, the cruise control etc etc

I still think a Procharger is the easiest route, but rear mounted ones do have merits aswell.

Renntech 6.5 litre M119 engine for the win then haha

Dave!

[Burba]

sorry guys, been at a conference so away from my machine!

some good suggestions here - 'charge vs turbo.

I was looking at turbo's vs charging as i've heard it's generally a cheaper option and is more efficent in terms of energy usage. also (and i know i shouldn't be even thinking about this) but the mpg would be better with the turbo's than the charger!

what about 2 small turbos?
piping is required, as is exhaust work and then cooler and location.

anyone have any ideas on costs involved?

ps. renntech solution, does that inc fitting?

[Howitzer]

If you mount them in the rear I would be worried about road conditions and how that would affect the turbos. If you mount them in the bay then think of all the extra heat.

http://www.procharger.com/superchargers.shtml

http://www.chargecooler.co.uk/

Food for thought and neat solutions.

Dave!

[Burba]

Howitzer said:

If you mount them in the rear I would be worried about road conditions and how that would affect the turbos. If you mount them in the bay then think of all the extra heat.

http://www.procharger.com/superchargers.shtml

http://www.chargecooler.co.uk/

Food for thought and neat solutions.

Dave!

they do look tasty don't they... and with the way the dollar is...

any pro-charged?
what else would be required?
costs assocaiated?

[SplatSpeed]

Burba said:

Howitzer said:

If you mount them in the rear I would be worried about road conditions and how that would affect the turbos. If you mount them in the bay then think of all the extra heat.

http://www.procharger.com/superchargers.shtml

http://www.chargecooler.co.uk/

Food for thought and neat solutions.

Dave!

they do look tasty don't they... and with the way the dollar is...

any pro-charged?
what else would be required?
costs assocaiated?

extra fuel

the supercharger is driven by the drivetrain not the exhaust

also the limited boost means that you will reduce the max poweroutput to drive the charger

you cannot just up the boost to counteract this as the engine is not low compression

[chuntington101]

Howitzer said:

If you mount them in the rear I would be worried about road conditions and how that would affect the turbos. If you mount them in the bay then think of all the extra heat.
Dave!

good points Dave.

the contaminates could be a prolbem, but a simple steel plate covering the turbo would reduce the effects to almost nothing. as for the exhaust system, you use the stock system and just replace the rear section/back box with the turbo. its is simpler to run a single than twins.

also with any forced induction you are going to have to think about the Ecu. i dont even want to tink how complex they are a new Mercs! its something you might want to look at before making you mind up! dont know if there is any way of 'hacking' the stock softwear. also got the think about the MAF. turning it into a blow through will work, but only to a levle. there are alwayus way to make sure you get enough fuel into the engine, uipping injector presure is the normal way, but its better to have the ECU sort the fueling out.

looking at some picks of the ML, its engine bay looks VERY crampt! that might be becuase of all the covers and stuff. also fornt mount turbos will mean running new manifolds. this will add exspence.

here is a BMW M5 with remote turbos. could you run something similar????

thanks Chris,

[Pentoman]

I think the renntech option includes fitting? Not sure though. One major downside though - they're in the USA I believe!

I think they were started by a couple of ex-AMG, or ex-Brabus guys. Well so the story goes....

[Burba]

i think i've got some digging to do...

... feel free to post any more links ....