Long brake travel on an Impreza
Discussion
I had all the brake pads changed on my 03 impreza at the 60K service last week and it has come back with a brake pedal that feels as though it will hit the floor before you get any "bite" at all. It was a bit long when I took it in and I knew some work would be required but it has come back worse. When challenged the garage claim it will just be the pads bedding in but I can't help feeling its a bit more than that.
Apparently the car was road tested but I 'm not sure they used the brakes!
Would the brakes just need bleeding or a whole fuid replacement? (or is that done at a routine service at some point). To be fair they wanted it back asap and it goes tomorrow but should the garage (main dealer)have left like this?
Added to that there is a dreadful vibration from the steering wheel which feels just like unbalanced wheels. This definitley wasn't like that before I took it in. Again initially they claim not to have touched the wheels but somethings happened. Poorly fitted pad or are these symptoms related and will they improve, before I go protesting.
I can't accept it was road tested properly as both these problems would have come up immediately.
Apparently the car was road tested but I 'm not sure they used the brakes!
Would the brakes just need bleeding or a whole fuid replacement? (or is that done at a routine service at some point). To be fair they wanted it back asap and it goes tomorrow but should the garage (main dealer)have left like this?
Added to that there is a dreadful vibration from the steering wheel which feels just like unbalanced wheels. This definitley wasn't like that before I took it in. Again initially they claim not to have touched the wheels but somethings happened. Poorly fitted pad or are these symptoms related and will they improve, before I go protesting.
I can't accept it was road tested properly as both these problems would have come up immediately.
60K service is.....
Engine oil, Sump plug washer, Oil filter, Engine coolant, Fuel filter, Air filter, Spark Plugs, Transmission and diff oil, Brake fluid.
If you really have that much pedal travel then i would ask the garage to check the brakes again. It may well be the pads do need bedding in and they won't bite until you apply lots of pressure but then again it may also have some air in the system. When you use the brakes try a quick double pump of the foot to see if they get harder after after the second quick pump. If they do get harder then it may well be one of the following....air in the system, master brake cylinder or caliper piston rubbers/seals gone or on their way out.
If the rotors and pads seem OK then it must be one of the above. Standard Scooby's have a slightly soft brake pedal but not overly so. The best way to cure all that is to get new upgraded rotors, upgrade pads and stainless steel braided flexible brake hoses all round plus DOT5.1 brake fluid. Not a cheap excercise but well worth it for the totally transformed brake feel and stopping power. That's the first major thing i did with mine because i felt the OEM setup was pretty poor for such a high performance vehicle and now i have excellent fade free brakes ready for lots of abuse on a track day
As for the vibration it may well be tyres need balancing, wheel/s buckled, or rotors badly warped, enough to induce vibration.
I hope some of this helps.
Engine oil, Sump plug washer, Oil filter, Engine coolant, Fuel filter, Air filter, Spark Plugs, Transmission and diff oil, Brake fluid.
If you really have that much pedal travel then i would ask the garage to check the brakes again. It may well be the pads do need bedding in and they won't bite until you apply lots of pressure but then again it may also have some air in the system. When you use the brakes try a quick double pump of the foot to see if they get harder after after the second quick pump. If they do get harder then it may well be one of the following....air in the system, master brake cylinder or caliper piston rubbers/seals gone or on their way out.
If the rotors and pads seem OK then it must be one of the above. Standard Scooby's have a slightly soft brake pedal but not overly so. The best way to cure all that is to get new upgraded rotors, upgrade pads and stainless steel braided flexible brake hoses all round plus DOT5.1 brake fluid. Not a cheap excercise but well worth it for the totally transformed brake feel and stopping power. That's the first major thing i did with mine because i felt the OEM setup was pretty poor for such a high performance vehicle and now i have excellent fade free brakes ready for lots of abuse on a track day
As for the vibration it may well be tyres need balancing, wheel/s buckled, or rotors badly warped, enough to induce vibration.
I hope some of this helps.
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 1st October 23:31
In view of the immediate difference before and after it is not a wear issue.
Like ScoobieWRX said it is most likely to be incorrect bleeding after the fluid change.
As for them not touching your wheels...tell them I will pay handsomely to come and watch them change fluid and pads with the wheels on
I would immediately check for missing balance weights, and (don't laugh) correctly tightened wheel nuts. I once had a wheel fall off 100m from the dealers! I would also check if you have unidirectional tyres that they have been replaced on the correct sides. Sounds stupid, but I have seen all of these done by 'professionals'.
Like ScoobieWRX said it is most likely to be incorrect bleeding after the fluid change.
As for them not touching your wheels...tell them I will pay handsomely to come and watch them change fluid and pads with the wheels on
I would immediately check for missing balance weights, and (don't laugh) correctly tightened wheel nuts. I once had a wheel fall off 100m from the dealers! I would also check if you have unidirectional tyres that they have been replaced on the correct sides. Sounds stupid, but I have seen all of these done by 'professionals'.
I would check that they have actually changed the brake fluid... Also have they bled the brake system properly after the change. when i had my pads done the pedal had very little travel. but now that i have dilberatey let the fluid go down a bit as i have a 60k service in a fwe weeks.
Another one to get better feel and reduce pedal travel would be to have braided brake hoses fitted!
Another one to get better feel and reduce pedal travel would be to have braided brake hoses fitted!
check the fluid, hopefully its not a case of them not putting one of the bleed valves back on properly and its leaking out !!
OR the new fluid might have got air pockets in it causing excessive pedal travel.
Most definitely sounds like a fluid issue to me. Failing that then it could be a shafted master cylinder.
OR the new fluid might have got air pockets in it causing excessive pedal travel.
Most definitely sounds like a fluid issue to me. Failing that then it could be a shafted master cylinder.
Agree with the other lad's, sometime's new pads make your pedal feel softer untill beeded in but don't normally get massive travel thats normally only because you have air in the lines, but check your brake lines just to make sure there in good nick.
Take it have you got the brembo's (would of thought so)?? if so there's no way without scratching the shat out of your wheel's they'd bleed the outter piston's!
I'm a ralli-art tech and work on Evo's near all day, and i remove the wheels from my customers cars for a brake inspection at least every year sometimes every 6mths depending on what they drive like and depending on what the fluid looks like and what the boiling point is bleed the system.
I'm sure they use the same brakes as most Scooby'd i've seen and after i change the brake fluid the pedal is harder then a bloke on viagra!! lol
You should be able to tell if they have changed it or if they have cracked off the nipple's unless using racing fluid its normally a really light tan sort of like.... apple juice so check your ress for level and condition.
Also look round the nipple's shouldn't be all dirty or corroded(as normally they'll get abit crappy even after a year) as brake fluid is really lubricating and will take off most crap from the rest of the nipple, hope fully when they finished working on the brakes they would of cleanned them all up while the wheel's were off and maybe buffed them up quick! (little anal but i do)
Go back kick up a MASSIVE FUSS!! if they haven't serviced your car correctly then you could land them in MEGA SHAT dude!!!! and get them to measure the disc's while they are there and compare to min thickness if it's clos change your dic's as you give them alot of stick then you could over heat them and have the lovely worpping going on!
Oh stand there and watch them do it, they should bleed the inner piston's first then the outter that way you are pulling fresh fluid straight across not old fluid thats been working the inner piston's for a year or 2. also should do "at least" 20 pumps on the brake pedal per caliper!! and usally use a 1ltr of brake fluid per bleed!!
Good luck dude
Take it have you got the brembo's (would of thought so)?? if so there's no way without scratching the shat out of your wheel's they'd bleed the outter piston's!
I'm a ralli-art tech and work on Evo's near all day, and i remove the wheels from my customers cars for a brake inspection at least every year sometimes every 6mths depending on what they drive like and depending on what the fluid looks like and what the boiling point is bleed the system.
I'm sure they use the same brakes as most Scooby'd i've seen and after i change the brake fluid the pedal is harder then a bloke on viagra!!
lolYou should be able to tell if they have changed it or if they have cracked off the nipple's unless using racing fluid its normally a really light tan sort of like.... apple juice so check your ress for level and condition.
Also look round the nipple's shouldn't be all dirty or corroded(as normally they'll get abit crappy even after a year) as brake fluid is really lubricating and will take off most crap from the rest of the nipple, hope fully when they finished working on the brakes they would of cleanned them all up while the wheel's were off and maybe buffed them up quick! (little anal but i do)
Go back kick up a MASSIVE FUSS!! if they haven't serviced your car correctly then you could land them in MEGA SHAT dude!!!! and get them to measure the disc's while they are there and compare to min thickness if it's clos change your dic's as you give them alot of stick then you could over heat them and have the lovely worpping going on!
Oh stand there and watch them do it, they should bleed the inner piston's first then the outter that way you are pulling fresh fluid straight across not old fluid thats been working the inner piston's for a year or 2. also should do "at least" 20 pumps on the brake pedal per caliper!! and usally use a 1ltr of brake fluid per bleed!!
Good luck dude
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