200 bhp CVH?

[triumphdave]

I am running a Dax rush one of only a couple with a CVH (1600) engine,as you can imagine it is lacking a bit in power.I have seen in a few places this magical figure of 200bhp as being the ideal minimum power for a Rush.My question is,is it possible to get this sort of power from a CVH(non turbo).I have spoken to the main man at Dax about changing the engine for a Vauxhall red top or similer but he advised me to stick to the CVH engine my chassis was designed for.He suggested a RS turbo,but I didnt realy want to go down the turbo route if possible it would mean a lot of extra work.Please feel free to comment

[Mr2Mike]

200bhp from a normaly aspirated CVH is just not realistic. A 2.0L Zetec would be a reasonably simple straightforward conversion, but you'd have to spend a good amount on the engine to extract 200bhp from one, e.g. head work, cams etc.

A 20XE in good condition will manage 200bhp with just bolt on parts e.g. throttle bodies and well designed exhaust manifold, but they are quite tall engines so you will need a lowered sump (Caterham make one) or dry sump, and a bellhousing to mate it up to your Ford gearbox (SBD, Yukspeed etc make them).

[Black5]

triumphdave said:

I have seen in a few places this magical figure of 200bhp as being the ideal minimum power for a Rush.

For what? . . . . 1/4 miles against a dragster?

[Furyblade_Lee]

A mate had a Striker with 200+bhp Turbo CVH, f****** mental! Undriveable really, when the boost came in, it just lit up and went sideways. Quite dangerous in that particular car, not sure what diff ect it was running. Not really the best option I fear.

[triumphdave]

Quote"A 20XE in good condition will manage 200bhp with just bolt on parts e.g. throttle bodies and well designed exhaust manifold, but they are quite tall engines so you will need a lowered sump (Caterham make one) or dry sump, and a bellhousing to mate it up to your Ford gearbox (SBD, Yukspeed etc make them)."

I quite liked the idea of changing the engine for something more modern,but the guy at Dax didnt seem to think it was a good idea.I got the feeling there was a lot of extra work involved.Maybe it would involve altering the chassis in some way.Pretty sure the exhaust exits on the opposite side also.
There is a website for a company called "CNC Heads" that claims to get 160bhp from a CVH with one of its CNC milled heads.I might see what they say as "Black5" says i wasnt intending to race Dragsters,Just make my drive to work a bit more interesting.

[Furyblade_Lee]

The good thing about the XE is they are nigh on indestructible as I believe they have steel crank and rods as standard. My mate was British 2-litre Hot rod Champ in an Audi TT clone, and runs those at about 230bhp. He gets a whole year out of an engine between rebuilds, racing roughly every fourtnight. You have to leave the internals pretty stock. If you can make one fit and the weight penalty is not an issue they are a far better bet than a CVH.

[X-man]

The XE doesn't have steel crank/rods as standard they are just a really strong engines the early ones have the cosworth cast heads and forged pistons and all have i beam rods, idealy you want a coscast head with coil pack conversion and a later block as the earlier ones have heavier cranks

[Kevp]

I had a CVH in a Westfield.
It was stroked to 2 litre. Had a modified camshaft but only upto hydrolic tappets limits. On twin 45s it made 155bhp.

To go further requires a lot of money. dont waste it.

I now run a zetec 2.ol on injection but it is standard with 176bhp.

I found the best thing was to stay off the pies & cakes. This saved a lot of money & gained more tha 20bhp.

[Mojocvh]

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/CVH.htm

Have a read and inwardly digest.

rgds

MoJo.

[X-man]

Mojocvh said:

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/CVH.htm

Have a read and inwardly digest.

rgds

MoJo.

Didn't read all of it(got bored) just the cost, and it seems like a lot of money for 170bhp

[Furyblade_Lee]

For a CHEAP 170bhp in a lightweight engine, easily mated to a Ford RWD gearbox look no furthur than a VVC K-series. 143bhp + 160bhp versions both can make 170'ish with a good exhaust and intake. My old Libra made 172bhp with one of these and it never overheated or blew up, despite being used very hard. Economical and tractable too, the 160 is a little tricky to source now but 143's £700'ish from a breakers. Just add a 52mm throttle body (£100) and the intake / exhaust to give great power versus weight over you front wheels.

[triumphdave]

Furyblade_Lee said:

For a CHEAP 170bhp in a lightweight engine, easily mated to a Ford RWD gearbox look no furthur than a VVC K-series. 143bhp + 160bhp versions both can make 170'ish with a good exhaust and intake. My old Libra made 172bhp with one of these and it never overheated or blew up, despite being used very hard. Economical and tractable too, the 160 is a little tricky to source now but 143's £700'ish from a breakers. Just add a 52mm throttle body (£100) and the intake / exhaust to give great power versus weight over you front wheels.

Unfortunately although it seems like cheap BHP I would have to add the cost of other parts for the conversion from CVH to Zetech VVC.red top .etc Its not just the price of the engine from a breakers.With the CVH everything else is already in place so the money spent goes only on extra power,not exhaust manifolds and pipes,fuel injection pumps and managment systems,throttlebodies etc,the list goes on.

[Kevp]

Its still cheaper to change the engine.

To get 200bhp is thousands spent on the head, pluse a larger cc. Maybe a ZVH. You wont even get those figures by turbo. http://www.specialisedengines.co.uk/index.html

You can get good power from any of the engines in the above replies. They will fit staight onto your gearbox. Will only need manifolds & some diy pipework/wiring alteratons.

I had my CVH to Zetec conversion done in a weekend. It did need a rolling road session but you will need that on a tuned cvh anyway.

Good luck.

[X-man]

Kevp said:

Its still cheaper to change the engine.

To get 200bhp is thousands spent on the head, pluse a larger cc. Maybe a ZVH. You wont even get those figures by turbo. http://www.specialisedengines.co.uk/index.html

You can get good power from any of the engines in the above replies. They will fit staight onto your gearbox. Will only need manifolds & some diy pipework/wiring alteratons.

I had my CVH to Zetec conversion done in a weekend. It did need a rolling road session but you will need that on a tuned cvh anyway.

Good luck.

I agree with Kev, i take it you are using a type 9 gearbox already? if so then its like Kev has said only a bellhousing and change the mounting points for the engine etc not a boatload of work, i've seen 2.0 zetecs with 200hp for 12-1500 quid( a bit dear i thought), and VX Redtops well you can pick up a VX lump for peanuts 2-300 quid and you then only need a set of 45 webers and an ignition ecu and an decent inlet and you are straight upto 170- 180hp, i've seen them for sale with 190-200hp for 5-800 quid(ready to go), this would leave you with nearly 3K to spend on other things, this is just my opinion.

Edited by X-man on Monday 8th October 13:17

[triumphdave]

X-man said:

Kevp said:

Its still cheaper to change the engine.

To get 200bhp is thousands spent on the head, pluse a larger cc. Maybe a ZVH. You wont even get those figures by turbo. http://www.specialisedengines.co.uk/index.html

You can get good power from any of the engines in the above replies. They will fit staight onto your gearbox. Will only need manifolds & some diy pipework/wiring alteratons.

I had my CVH to Zetec conversion done in a weekend. It did need a rolling road session but you will need that on a tuned cvh anyway.

Good luck.

I agree with Kev, i take it you are using a type 9 gearbox already? if so then its like Kev has said only a bellhousing and change the mounting points for the engine etc not a boatload of work, i've seen 2.0 zetecs with 200hp for 12-1500 quid( a bit dear i thought), and VX Redtops well you can pick up a VX lump for peanuts 2-300 quid and you then only need a set of 45 webers and an ignition ecu and an decent inlet and you are straight upto 170- 180hp, i've seen them for sale with 190-200hp for 5-800 quid(ready to go), this would leave you with nearly 3K to spend on other things, this is just my opinion.

Edited by X-man on Monday 8th October 13:17

I can see what you are saying but straight away I would have to add the price of a new bonnet and side panel (both have holes in the wrong place)an exhaust silencer plus I am sure a lot more when you actually get down to the conversion.
Is there anybody out there that has actually done a CVH conversion in a kit car that could shed some more light on what is involved and a better idea on the cost.Also what would actually fit without too much alteration to the chassis etc.

[X-man]

triumphdave said:

Kevp said:

I had my CVH to Zetec conversion done in a weekend. It did need a rolling road session but you will need that on a tuned cvh anyway.

Good luck.

Is there anybody out there that has actually done a CVH conversion in a kit car that could shed some more light on what is involved and a better idea on the cost.

I know Kev runs a classic stylus, a bit different to yours i know i expect he will shed some light on it a bit later.

[triumphdave]

I have just re-read through the posts and can I just say,I never intended to spend £1000s on this project.The Head I had seen was about £500ish and acording to CNCheads that would have given me 160bhp,because they are CNC milled they can replicate the original flow tested master.I already run M/C carbs and a Megajolt ignition so hopefuly that would of contributed a bit more so hopefuly I could of got quite a quick engine I know its not 200bhp but I can see that its not realistic.I have read the Pumaracing articles before but sort of got the impression it was quite old so things might have moved on a bit(i.e the heads are hand machined).As I said before I quite liked the idea of changing the engine for something more modern but the Dax chaps didnt seem to think it would be cost effective.I didnt want to buy an engine to find out it wouldnt fit due to it hitting the firewall or it was miles to tall etc.Its been an intresting discussion and I appreciate everybodys contribution,please keep it coming

[Mr2Mike]

triumphdave said:

I have just re-read through the posts and can I just say,I never intended to spend £1000s on this project.The Head I had seen was about £500ish and acording to CNCheads that would have given me 160bhp,

The head would not give that power by itself! 160bhp would be in conjunction with a cam and probably throttle bodies or DCOE fueling, and a decent exhaust.

[Nurburglover]

I have a 1.6 CVH that puts out 140 at the Wheels. (Westfield SEW) It's completely driveable. No tempererment. Has more power everywhere than the standard car. From 4000rpm it really takes off but pulls well up to that too. All started with an ex fiesta challange head. But they were restricted with carbs. This is on twin 40s. Still needs a decent exhaust system. Curently running a Ford Transit one that looks. Well. Like a Ford Transit. Everyone said just scrap the engine & drop in a Zetec. But even a stock 2 litre will cost 4K for all the bits you need. Cost 2.5K to up rate the cvh. (For the Developement. Won't cost you that much. If you want to ride in the car just PM me!) Joy of it is when you out gun a 2 litre zetec you should see the look on there face when they see whats under your bonnet.!!!!
The one in the Dax is probably lean burn! Mine was. Idiots. Forget Puma. The secret is in matchting the cam to the head.
You don't need throttle bodies. Good way to waste money. This car matches my Porshe for Horse power!!! In the wet its a bit lively. Goes sideways most of the time.
(Dastek Dyno. Rick woods racing, Stockport.)

Edited by Nurburglover on Saturday 13th October 20:43

Edited by Nurburglover on Saturday 13th October 20:51

[Mojocvh]

Nurburglover said:

I have a 1.6 CVH that puts out 140 at the Wheels. (Westfield SEW) It's completely driveable. No tempererment. Has more power everywhere than the standard car. From 4000rpm it really takes off but pulls well up to that too. All started with an ex fiesta challange head. But they were restricted with carbs. This is on twin 40s. Still needs a decent exhaust system. Curently running a Ford Transit one that looks. Well. Like a Ford Transit. Everyone said just scrap the engine & drop in a Zetec. But even a stock 2 litre will cost 4K for all the bits you need. Cost 2.5K to up rate the cvh. (For the Developement. Won't cost you that much. If you want to ride in the car just PM me!) Joy of it is when you out gun a 2 litre zetec you should see the look on there face when they see whats under your bonnet.!!!!
The one in the Dax is probably lean burn! Mine was. Idiots. Forget Puma. The secret is in matchting the cam to the head.
You don't need throttle bodies. Good way to waste money. This car matches my Porshe for Horse power!!! In the wet its a bit lively. Goes sideways most of the time.
(Dastek Dyno. Rick woods racing, Stockport.)

Edited by Nurburglover on Saturday 13th October 20:43

Edited by Nurburglover on Saturday 13th October 20:51

What cam are you running?