Importance of specialist stamps in the book
Discussion
Can I just canvass a little opinion on the importance of having a known specialist stamp the book for a 6k service?
I would always use a specialist for doing something like the tappet adjustment and for the more general check-over (i.e. for the 12k service), but it seems like out of a £600+VAT bill for an oil, filter and plug change, about £500 is purely for the dealer stamp.
If you were buying your Cerb again, would you be put off if one of the 6k's had been done by a non-TVR specialist independent?
I would always use a specialist for doing something like the tappet adjustment and for the more general check-over (i.e. for the 12k service), but it seems like out of a £600+VAT bill for an oil, filter and plug change, about £500 is purely for the dealer stamp.
If you were buying your Cerb again, would you be put off if one of the 6k's had been done by a non-TVR specialist independent?
As a potential Cerbera buyer I can tell you that in my opinion it's the details in a vehicle's history that help understand the way that it's been cared for. While the idea of saving a little on the service is probably sensible (put the difference into a saving's account for the time it needs something major), as a buyer I would note a non-specialist service as potentially suggesting the owner (or a previous owner) may have cut other maintenance corners. So I'd probably mark that against a car I was thinking of buying. Pretty subjective I accept, but when/if you come to sell that confidence thing could be the difference between a timely sale or no. As I said, this is just my opinion - I'm sure othrs may take a different view.
A good question really, but I think the answer is Yes, it does matter, although £600 for a 6k service does sound a lot.
The 6k service is a lot more than just an oil and filter change.
http://www.henley-tvr.com/servlets/sfs?s=yp58JwRUC...
I have an old Honda that I have once had up to 140 (it was rock steady as it happens
) but most of the time it toodles along taking me to work and along the motorway at 80, sorry I mean 70, and all I ever do to it is change the oil and filter twice a year, if something breaks on it, then it's no big deal..
Now the Cerb is a 180mph beast, and even though I never go that fast, there are times when I overtake a convoy of 6 cars 2 lorries and 1 caravan, in 3 milliseconds flat and pull back in just 6 inches before there's a right handed hairpin, and go round it comfortably. To do that I need confidence that my car has been checked over by someone who knows what they are doing, and what to look for. So seeing that stamp in the book would give me assurance, as a potential buyer, that the car has been owned by someone who has looked after it.
I don't think a Cerb is the type of car that you should skimp on, it's part and parcel of owning one.
Look what happened to Richard Hammond because no one bothered to check the tyres!
PS - Couldn't resist it, any excuse
Overtaking
The 6k service is a lot more than just an oil and filter change.
http://www.henley-tvr.com/servlets/sfs?s=yp58JwRUC...
I have an old Honda that I have once had up to 140 (it was rock steady as it happens
) but most of the time it toodles along taking me to work and along the motorway at 80, sorry I mean 70, and all I ever do to it is change the oil and filter twice a year, if something breaks on it, then it's no big deal..Now the Cerb is a 180mph beast, and even though I never go that fast, there are times when I overtake a convoy of 6 cars 2 lorries and 1 caravan, in 3 milliseconds flat and pull back in just 6 inches before there's a right handed hairpin, and go round it comfortably. To do that I need confidence that my car has been checked over by someone who knows what they are doing, and what to look for. So seeing that stamp in the book would give me assurance, as a potential buyer, that the car has been owned by someone who has looked after it.
I don't think a Cerb is the type of car that you should skimp on, it's part and parcel of owning one.
Look what happened to Richard Hammond because no one bothered to check the tyres!
PS - Couldn't resist it, any excuse
Overtaking
Edited by JensenA on Saturday 6th October 18:39
Sorry, I've worded the first post badly - I'm not suggesting that I take it to kwik-fit for a quick wipe with an oily rag. I mean just having a mechanic other than one of the common indy/dealer names shown on the service book. The place thats done the most recent work is a bently specialist and the two other options come with demonstrably equivelant experience.
GazzaB - don't worry, the car will certainly be looked after properly. Trust me
GazzaB - don't worry, the car will certainly be looked after properly. Trust me
Nefarious said:
Can I just canvass a little opinion on the importance of having a known specialist stamp the book for a 6k service?
I would always use a specialist for doing something like the tappet adjustment and for the more general check-over (i.e. for the 12k service), but it seems like out of a £600+VAT bill for an oil, filter and plug change, about £500 is purely for the dealer stamp.
If you were buying your Cerb again, would you be put off if one of the 6k's had been done by a non-TVR specialist independent?
Take it to a well known indipendant for the important stuff ie services and MOT's etc and then get your friend or indeed yourself to do the ad hoc stuff as it arises - which it will.I would always use a specialist for doing something like the tappet adjustment and for the more general check-over (i.e. for the 12k service), but it seems like out of a £600+VAT bill for an oil, filter and plug change, about £500 is purely for the dealer stamp.
If you were buying your Cerb again, would you be put off if one of the 6k's had been done by a non-TVR specialist independent?
£600 + VAT sounds a bit steep for a 6K.
MB
Alternative learn how to do this stuff yourself. The AJP8 isn't that complicated.
That way when you've just overtaken that stream of cars and are doing that suspectly heroic, 'just before a hairpin' manouver, the last few seconds of your life will be spent reliving the best moments of your life rather than cursing your luck for taking it to a guy you don't know, that sorted your car with a hangover because of a sessn he was dragged to by one of his emegrating mates, and couldn't do a proper job on your car that morning before you picked it up, because he and his wife were late for marriage counselling.
. If you don't know, learn. If you can't afford the time to learn about your car you perhaps shouldn't then you should think about another type of car.
Cerbs aren't about money, or dealer stamps. Their about constant maintenance. On buying another cerb I wouldn't even bother to look at the stamps.
That way when you've just overtaken that stream of cars and are doing that suspectly heroic, 'just before a hairpin' manouver, the last few seconds of your life will be spent reliving the best moments of your life rather than cursing your luck for taking it to a guy you don't know, that sorted your car with a hangover because of a sessn he was dragged to by one of his emegrating mates, and couldn't do a proper job on your car that morning before you picked it up, because he and his wife were late for marriage counselling.
. If you don't know, learn. If you can't afford the time to learn about your car you perhaps shouldn't then you should think about another type of car.Cerbs aren't about money, or dealer stamps. Their about constant maintenance. On buying another cerb I wouldn't even bother to look at the stamps.
http://www.dulfordautocouk.moonfruit.com/
ask richard for a list of what he does / checks then tell me if you think you can get better value by going else where
custard
ask richard for a list of what he does / checks then tell me if you think you can get better value by going else where
custard
Gazzab said:
but a bentley bloke wont know cerbs.
OK, to clarify further - the "Bentley bloke" is Mulsanne Motors, which Alan MacDonald (TVR dealer in Dalkeith) uses, so he's certainly dealt with his fair share of TVRs before.My second option is Pitstop Northern, which again, has significant TVR experience (recommendations on here, and from a friend who previously owned a Chimp). Seems like a really nice guy, and is clearly willing to go the extra mile with servicing, but he's not keen on doing the full 12k service because of some of the specialist jobs (valve clearances, specifically)
I have no doubts whatsoever over the experience or theoretical ability to do a 6k service on the Cerb, but neither are "known faces", and if its got to go the Dreadnought or similar for its 12k anyway, then may make sense to take it there in the first place.
The third option is to take it back to the bloke who re-built the engine for its 12k (who's going to know that engine better), but use the same guy as I'm using for the "add-on" work in between to do the 6k.
I've got a list, currently at 2 pages and growing, of elective/preventative jobs, that as a new owner, I want to get done ASAP for peace of mind (and because I'm a bit obsessive!). Some of it I'll do myself, and some of it I'll use a guy I've dealt with lots before - he looks after a variety of classics (inc a Jensen Interceptor and a DB4), as well as a few competition cars (inc historics). OK, he's got the least TVR-specific experience of the three 6k options, but I know this guy, and he might as well as personally invented the internal combustion engine for his level of knowledge, and is completely fastidious in his work. If its "only" a 6k, the is a certain argument for doing it while we've got it in bits for the other jobs and then send it off the Andy (the engine builder), for its full check-over and 12k.
Hut49 said:
julian64 said:
On buying another cerb I wouldn't even bother to look at the stamps.
Good luck selling it However one has to be realistic about this and accept that most people buy because of how shiny the paintwork is and how the car shakes like when you kick the tyres.
I am prepared, and always have been, to take that hit to look after the car the way I want to. Would be hypocritical of me not to, as that is exactly the sort of person I buy the car off.
RUSSELLM said:
I must admit, that in my dealings with TVR dealers...I would see a car having a FTVRSH as a bad thing
Does the FSH guarantee the engine and chassis are ok ?
I didn't think so.
So you're saying a FSH but from an Indy? Does the FSH guarantee the engine and chassis are ok ?
I didn't think so.
Or hope that the seller was handy with a set of spanners? In fact if there are several owners that all have been.
If I was buying another Cerb, I wouldn't care if it's got dealer history, indie history or no history.
It's the car that's sat in front of you that you're buying, not the one that had a five grand service back in 1998.
Picture the scene... Two cars in front of you, both say £20K. Car number one uses oil and has a knackered chassis, but has thousands of pounds of receipts and a full TVR service history.
Car number two has a perfect engine, perfect chassis and no history.
Which one do you buy ?
It's the car that's sat in front of you that you're buying, not the one that had a five grand service back in 1998.
Picture the scene... Two cars in front of you, both say £20K. Car number one uses oil and has a knackered chassis, but has thousands of pounds of receipts and a full TVR service history.
Car number two has a perfect engine, perfect chassis and no history.
Which one do you buy ?
RUSSELLM said:
If I was buying another Cerb, I wouldn't care if it's got dealer history, indie history or no history.
It's the car that's sat in front of you that you're buying, not the one that had a five grand service back in 1998.
Picture the scene... Two cars in front of you, both say £20K. Car number one uses oil and has a knackered chassis, but has thousands of pounds of receipts and a full TVR service history.
Car number two has a perfect engine, perfect chassis and no history.
Which one do you buy ?
Yeah, but you still want to know that certain jobs have been done/checked regularly - like oil changes. I thik receipts are more important than stamps. It's the car that's sat in front of you that you're buying, not the one that had a five grand service back in 1998.
Picture the scene... Two cars in front of you, both say £20K. Car number one uses oil and has a knackered chassis, but has thousands of pounds of receipts and a full TVR service history.
Car number two has a perfect engine, perfect chassis and no history.
Which one do you buy ?
Although personally I'd still like to see the first 3 years servicing done with main dealer stamps and at least the next 3 years servicing done with indie specialists. From then on it comes down to costs vs return. Either way, I'd expect to see receipts from new to current.
You can't really cheat with receipts, but you can with stamps. I've actually seen someone seeling a stamped handbook on Ebay once
Do any of you stamp likers ever check whether the stuff that's been charged for and stamped for has actually been done.
Having a ramp means I have quite a lot of TVR owners ask to use it for one thing or another. All in all I rekon I've had about thiry different cars on it.
I've had a particular Cerb who checked if a filter had been replaced at a service. It hadn't. He took the car back to said dealer and complained. The dealer was most appologetic and took the car straight off him to redo the service 'at their expense'.
Does anyone want to bet when he bought the car back to me whether the filter had been changed? We didn't even check anything else they had done.
Another chap had virtually nothing holding his exhausts in the air, another had a finger loose sump plug. Many have had really bad rust just dying for a little care and attention, or water clips that had actually broken with just rust holding the pipe on. All of these things with a recent or very recent service. Which granted isn't actually on the service shedule, but I bet an owner looking at them would have attended to them rather than wait for the disaster.
On chap took his car to a dealer on no fewer than six occasions because of a leaking propshaft seal. Not once in any of those trips did they actually change the seal.
I'm not berating dealers, although it probably sounds like it. I'm saying that the stamps in a service book, or the receipts for that matter aren't worth squat to a buyer who is about to lay out his cash.
If you have a choice between a good car with a full service history and one without I would choose the one with. But the cars would have to be identical condition. The only reason I would choose the one with would be the wealth of buyers out there that put so much store in the paperwork.
Having a ramp means I have quite a lot of TVR owners ask to use it for one thing or another. All in all I rekon I've had about thiry different cars on it.
I've had a particular Cerb who checked if a filter had been replaced at a service. It hadn't. He took the car back to said dealer and complained. The dealer was most appologetic and took the car straight off him to redo the service 'at their expense'.
Does anyone want to bet when he bought the car back to me whether the filter had been changed? We didn't even check anything else they had done.
Another chap had virtually nothing holding his exhausts in the air, another had a finger loose sump plug. Many have had really bad rust just dying for a little care and attention, or water clips that had actually broken with just rust holding the pipe on. All of these things with a recent or very recent service. Which granted isn't actually on the service shedule, but I bet an owner looking at them would have attended to them rather than wait for the disaster.
On chap took his car to a dealer on no fewer than six occasions because of a leaking propshaft seal. Not once in any of those trips did they actually change the seal.
I'm not berating dealers, although it probably sounds like it. I'm saying that the stamps in a service book, or the receipts for that matter aren't worth squat to a buyer who is about to lay out his cash.
If you have a choice between a good car with a full service history and one without I would choose the one with. But the cars would have to be identical condition. The only reason I would choose the one with would be the wealth of buyers out there that put so much store in the paperwork.
julian64 said:
Do any of you stamp likers ever check whether the stuff that's been charged for and stamped for has actually been done.
Having a ramp means I have quite a lot of TVR owners ask to use it for one thing or another. All in all I rekon I've had about thiry different cars on it.
I've had a particular Cerb who checked if a filter had been replaced at a service. It hadn't. He took the car back to said dealer and complained. The dealer was most appologetic and took the car straight off him to redo the service 'at their expense'.
Does anyone want to bet when he bought the car back to me whether the filter had been changed? We didn't even check anything else they had done.
Another chap had virtually nothing holding his exhausts in the air, another had a finger loose sump plug. Many have had really bad rust just dying for a little care and attention, or water clips that had actually broken with just rust holding the pipe on. All of these things with a recent or very recent service. Which granted isn't actually on the service shedule, but I bet an owner looking at them would have attended to them rather than wait for the disaster.
On chap took his car to a dealer on no fewer than six occasions because of a leaking propshaft seal. Not once in any of those trips did they actually change the seal.
I'm not berating dealers, although it probably sounds like it. I'm saying that the stamps in a service book, or the receipts for that matter aren't worth squat to a buyer who is about to lay out his cash.
If you have a choice between a good car with a full service history and one without I would choose the one with. But the cars would have to be identical condition. The only reason I would choose the one with would be the wealth of buyers out there that put so much store in the paperwork.
I do agree you. However some of us don't get much choice in servicing.... we have to get someone to do it and we have to trust them to do it. Thankfully there are lots of garages with good reputations. But Julian, if you're offering......!!!Having a ramp means I have quite a lot of TVR owners ask to use it for one thing or another. All in all I rekon I've had about thiry different cars on it.
I've had a particular Cerb who checked if a filter had been replaced at a service. It hadn't. He took the car back to said dealer and complained. The dealer was most appologetic and took the car straight off him to redo the service 'at their expense'.
Does anyone want to bet when he bought the car back to me whether the filter had been changed? We didn't even check anything else they had done.
Another chap had virtually nothing holding his exhausts in the air, another had a finger loose sump plug. Many have had really bad rust just dying for a little care and attention, or water clips that had actually broken with just rust holding the pipe on. All of these things with a recent or very recent service. Which granted isn't actually on the service shedule, but I bet an owner looking at them would have attended to them rather than wait for the disaster.
On chap took his car to a dealer on no fewer than six occasions because of a leaking propshaft seal. Not once in any of those trips did they actually change the seal.
I'm not berating dealers, although it probably sounds like it. I'm saying that the stamps in a service book, or the receipts for that matter aren't worth squat to a buyer who is about to lay out his cash.
If you have a choice between a good car with a full service history and one without I would choose the one with. But the cars would have to be identical condition. The only reason I would choose the one with would be the wealth of buyers out there that put so much store in the paperwork.
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