Elise/VX220 - 6ft5?

[snozzberry]

Hiya, I'm buying either an Elise or a VX220 next summer when I turn 21.

Obviously I have a few concerns, being insurance and how tall I am...

Firstly, at 21 what would be the sensible limit insurance wise...would there be a difference between the S1 and S2 for insurance? I know the VX220 N/A would work out cheaper but my heart keeps swaying towards the Elise.

Secondly, which gives the most head/leg room. Headroom is more of a concern than legroom, providing I don't hit knee on the gearstick! The S1, S2 or VX200? Also, will adding a hard roof to the S1 or S2 provide some more headroom or are the soft tops better? Ideally I'll want the hard top anyway, as I prefer the styling of the Exige and am not keen on driving around with the roof off in this country anyway.

Thirdly, what are the main differences between the S1 and S2 beside the Toyota engine?

Obviously the Toyota engine is more reliable and ...more powerful?? but are there changes to the chassis, suspension, brakes or anything like that too? Is the S2 the better drive?

Thanks a lot for any input, I know it's probably a silly choice to make but I'm only going to be young once and I want to be able to fully enjoy it!

Oh and one more thing, does anyone here A) use their Lotus as their daily hack and B) leave it outside, i.e does not have a garage?

Thanks.

[rfoster]

Hi,
I drive mine every day and it's left outside overnight (have done with my 5 Lotuses) - no problems there. Insurance will be a crippler at 21 though, try www.confused.com for ideas on prices. I'd suggest you go & drive S1's and S2's and see which you prefer, they all had the same K Series engines until 2004 when the Toyota lump was first introduced.

[kambites]

Most S2s still had the K-series engine. The Toyota was introduced in parallel with the K-series for a while, then they stopped the K when Rover went under. The S1 probably has a little more head room because the seats have a little less padding but they're a bit harder to get in and out of. Whether you'll fit will depend on exactly how you're built... there's not really a substitute for trying one.

Insurance will hurt - you haven't said how much no-claims bonus you have and that makes a huge difference.

I'd guess over half of the people on here use their Elie as a daily drive. If you're going to keep it outside and use it all winter, it's probably worth considering air conditioning for demisting purposes.

ETA: Oh and the hardtop covers part of the front window so if you can drive one with a soft top on, you may still not be able to drive it with a hard top. I'm speaking from experience of a genuine lotus short-roof hardtop.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 10th October 12:29

[whygee02]

Headrooom wont be the problem, they're deceptively generous...once you're in. Getting in and out will take a bit of practice but should be okay.

Without going into all the differences between s1 and s2 elises (lots of forums/wikis have this documented), s1 is more hardcore, s2 is (slightly) more refined and lots of posts suggest more practical for every day use.

Early s2's still used the Rover K engine (mine !) which is generally rock solid, HGF is debatably a problem but this has also been debated to death elsewhere.

HTH

[kambites]

whygee02 said:

Headrooom wont be the problem, they're deceptively generous...once you're in. Getting in and out will take a bit of practice but should be okay.

That's not necessarily true. One of my lodgers' heads touches the roof and he's only six foot. I'm also six foot and I have about 4 inches of clearance (but need to put a spacer behind the steering wheel to be able to reach it properly)... all depends on what shape you are.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 10th October 12:31

[kambites]

Oh and a VX220, even the Turbo, will probably be cheaper to insure. Not sure why - just the way it is.

[JeremyK]

I'm about 6'5 and have had one s1 and two s2's and I don't find it a problem at all.

[NathanE]

The S2 is normally considered the better built car. The suspension is Bilstein which fixed a lot of ride quality problems in the S1.

[snozzberry]

Thanks for your comments people.

So really I'm looking at a standard S2 Elise or VX220.

I know the insurance will kill, but I've prepared myself for it and I know that if I don't get one now, I never will and I'll live to regret it. You only live once and I doubt I'll be able to run a 2 seater in a few years time.

I'll be 21, no NCB and driving for 4 years so I'm sure it'll sting.

Nice to know some people as tall as me have been okay. If it's a problem can you buy different sub-frames and/or seats and adjust the wheel? Would you say you have the same headroom as something like a Ford Focus or is it considerably less. I've seen some people driving around in VX's and Elises and it looks like their head is above the top of the door frame.

Is the K-Series engine more tunable/powerful than the Toyota?

Once again, thanks. :-)

[fleetelise]

kambites said:

whygee02 said:

Headrooom wont be the problem, they're deceptively generous...once you're in. Getting in and out will take a bit of practice but should be okay.

That's not necessarily true. One of my lodgers' heads touches the roof and he's only six foot. I'm also six foot and I have about 4 inches of clearance (but need to put a spacer behind the steering wheel to be able to reach it properly)... all depends on what shape you are.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 10th October 12:31

Yeah, second that. I'm 6 foot, and my leg is against the gear stick when in 5th. I am a little on the fat side mind you!

[kambites]

snozzberry said:

Is the K-Series engine more tunable/powerful than the Toyota?

The K was offered in various states of tune in the S2:
Standard car: 120bhp
111S/111/Sport 160: 158bhp
Sport 135: 135bhp
Sport 190: 190bhp (Called the VHPD. very rare and not very reliable)

The Toyota lump was offered in two states of tune (in the Elise):
111R/R/Sport Racer: 190bhp
S: 134bhp (I think)


So generally the K-series is less powerful. The K is also lighter than the Toyota so power to weight ratios for the K-series engined cars are better than you'd think from the above figures and some would argue that the lighter engine gives better handling.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 10th October 14:19

[LivinLaVidaLotus]

Answer to headroom, is that you need to try them all and see, differing body proportions mean people of the same height may be okay or may not be.

Insurance - try Elephant, they seem to be one of the best for younger drivers.

[Chris49]

LivinLaVidaLotus said:

Answer to headroom, is that you need to try them all and see, differing body proportions mean people of the same height may be okay or may not be.

Insurance - try Elephant, they seem to be one of the best for younger drivers.

Agreed. However my brother is 6.5 and about 13 stone and he can gracefully get in and out of my S1 and the old mans S2.

Actually as a sub note he is 22 and got some rediculous quotes for insuring an Elise, wisely decided to leave it til his 25th and he had a little more road experience.

[ganglandboss]

Ikemi's the man to ask, he's 21 and runs an Elise.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?memberId=82083&name= 

[redevil]

21 and 0 no claims is going to be horrendous, but try Admiral. Car wise, i've found the S2 alot more expensive to insure than an S1 (standard engines). The VX220 on the other hand is cheaper to insure than both.

[cyberface]

Worth searching on the vx220.org.uk forums, there appear to be reasonable quotes for 21 year olds on N/A VX220s, much more so than Lotus branded cars.

[crackthatoff]

redevil said:

The VX220 on the other hand is cheaper to insure than both.

Buy ya don't want to do that !!!

[snozzberry]

Well my head is saying VX220 (as long as it fits in it haha) but my heart is saying Lotus.

I'll get some quotes on all 3.

[Ikemi]

ganglandboss said:

Ikemi's the man to ask, he's 21 and runs an Elise.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?memberId=82083&name= 

snozzberry said:

Firstly, at 21 what would be the sensible limit insurance wise...would there be a difference between the S1 and S2 for insurance?

Unfortunately there is quite a difference in insurance premiums between the S1 and S2 variants at our age level. I can only guess this is due to the fact that the car is younger, is of a newer design and is more likely to be insured at a higher value. However it was enough for me to choose the S1 outright, which wasn't a bad thing, as I love the styling of the S1
As mentioned, the S1 is a very 'raw' drive in comparison to the S2. However, like me you stated that this will be a car if you don't buy now, you never will ... So go for something that is really raw and enjoy it! There will be time in the future for more luxurious cars!
The VX220 is a bit cheaper than the S1 - For me it was about £50 - But it all depends on the postcode lottery!

My insurance is crippling. I don't think I would ever pay so much for insurance again, but I must admit that once you are out driving the car, it all seems worth it! Some excellent advice I picked up from the people here is: Always go fully comp! I cannot stress it enough. Third Party Fire and Theft is very tempting, as I imagine it'll be half the price of fully comp policies ... However it is just not worth the risk! You need to be covered so that if you do lose the rear end (and you will!) and happen to crash, your insurance company will hopefully pay out.

I am covered with Kwik-Fit, which is Southern Rock. I'm 21 with 1.5 years driving experience and 1 years NCB, good postcode, fully comp for £2,600. This was the cheapest quotation I received. The majority were £3,200 or above. Elephant were £4,700! It might be worth adding other drivers to your policy - It may bring your premium down. Also limiting your annual mileage can save you money.

Try Confused.com and MoneySuperMarket.com ... Then get on the phone and haggle

snozzberry said:

Secondly, which gives the most head/leg room. Headroom is more of a concern than legroom, providing I don't hit knee on the gearstick! The S1, S2 or VX200? Also, will adding a hard roof to the S1 or S2 provide some more headroom or are the soft tops better? Ideally I'll want the hard top anyway, as I prefer the styling of the Exige and am not keen on driving around with the roof off in this country anyway.

The S1 will have more headroom because of it's thin bucket seats. There are also a lot of 6ft5 owners who have detachable Momo steering wheels to ease entry and exit. Also don't dismiss the soft top just yet! It is a fantastic feeling driving on a sunny day or at night with the roof off. With the windows down you feel as if you're driving at a faster rate too!

snozzberry said:

Oh and one more thing, does anyone here A) use their Lotus as their daily hack and B) leave it outside, i.e does not have a garage?

Yes and yes! I believe the majority of people on here drive their cars everyday. I've had no problems ... More reliable and fuel efficient that my previous Peugeot 306!

snozzberry said:

I know the insurance will kill, but I've prepared myself for it and I know that if I don't get one now, I never will and I'll live to regret it. You only live once and I doubt I'll be able to run a 2 seater in a few years time.

Good on you! My thoughts exactly ... I vowed to own one of these cars ever since I first spotted one 10 years ago. It is the best thing I have ever down and haven't regreted one moment of ownership! The people here and at meets are really friendly and willing to help on any problems you have. It's like being part of an extended family, what with each Lotus owner waving at each other whilst passing - An incredible feeling when this happens to you for the first time.

However keep in the back of your mind, as I have done ... You probably won't be able to sell the car when you need to! I can't imagine life without it ... Unless the next car is a S2 or Exige

Good luck, let us know what happens and go fully comp!

[miro]

kambites said:

Oh and a VX220, even the Turbo, will probably be cheaper to insure. Not sure why - just the way it is.

Its a vauxhall and no one would nick it