Excessive violence or not??
Discussion
i was just watching this video, this moron headbutts a cop, and i just dont know what to think of it, i cant decide wether or not if it was excessive or not....
http://www.jokeroo.com/extremevideos/guy_headbutts...
just wanted opinions.
http://www.jokeroo.com/extremevideos/guy_headbutts...
just wanted opinions.
Edited by Jeremy Kyle on Wednesday 10th October 21:55
???
yes, it was somewhat excessive
hopefully he got a good 'falling down the stairs'
edit: to clear up
excessive by the yoof
neat trick by the cop, "he assaulted me by dripping blood on me, your honour!" "hmm, how did he come to be bleeding?"
yes, it was somewhat excessive
hopefully he got a good 'falling down the stairs'
edit: to clear up
excessive by the yoof
neat trick by the cop, "he assaulted me by dripping blood on me, your honour!" "hmm, how did he come to be bleeding?"
Edited by hugoagogo on Wednesday 10th October 22:01
Jeremy,
If he did that in "non-namby-pamby" country, he'd simply have been shot!
Absolutely OUTRAGEOUS that you even considered it excessive force I'm afraid mate..
Assaulting an Officer about the Queen's business should carry a Prison Sentence
- Deep breath*
If he did that in "non-namby-pamby" country, he'd simply have been shot!
Absolutely OUTRAGEOUS that you even considered it excessive force I'm afraid mate..
Assaulting an Officer about the Queen's business should carry a Prison Sentence
L14MNV said:
Jeremy,
If he did that in "non-namby-pamby" country, he'd simply have been shot!
Absolutely OUTRAGEOUS that you even considered it excessive force I'm afraid mate..
Assaulting an Officer about the Queen's business should carry a Prison Sentence
calm down mate!- Deep breath*
If he did that in "non-namby-pamby" country, he'd simply have been shot!
Absolutely OUTRAGEOUS that you even considered it excessive force I'm afraid mate..
Assaulting an Officer about the Queen's business should carry a Prison Sentence
its the push of the face i thought was a bit off this is what made the chav headbutt him imo.
btw he looked like he needed a beating regardless if the bib was excessive or not!
and wasnt the chavs face funny when he headbutted bib and he didnt fall down! "that was hard"
Edited by Jeremy Kyle on Wednesday 10th October 22:06
Jeremy Kyle said:
L14MNV said:
Jeremy,
If he did that in "non-namby-pamby" country, he'd simply have been shot!
Absolutely OUTRAGEOUS that you even considered it excessive force I'm afraid mate..
Assaulting an Officer about the Queen's business should carry a Prison Sentence
calm down mate!- Deep breath*
If he did that in "non-namby-pamby" country, he'd simply have been shot!
Absolutely OUTRAGEOUS that you even considered it excessive force I'm afraid mate..
Assaulting an Officer about the Queen's business should carry a Prison Sentence
its the push of the face i thought was a bit off this is what made the chav headbutt him imo.
btw he looked like he needed a beating regardless if the bib was excessive or not!
and wasnt the chavs face funny when he headbutted bib and he didnt fall down! "that was hard"
Edited by Jeremy Kyle on Wednesday 10th October 22:06
I’d suggest the push in the face which the Officer gave the lad would be classified as a “pre-emptive strike”. The lad’s body language was aggressive and was acting the goat.
The fact he walked straight up to the Officers face, the Officer has prevented him head butting him and I too believe he should have deployed a full canister of PAVA/CS gas in the little shits eyes!!
I still can’t believe children now-a-days........unbelievable!!
that was definatley NOT exessive that cocky little bastard that nutted the cop should have had his head kicked in as a lesson
if he is prepared to do that to a person who is paid to protect him he has no place in society and a good kickin
would help him learn that
p.s. if that doesn't work electrocute the little f
r
if he is prepared to do that to a person who is paid to protect him he has no place in society and a good kickin
would help him learn that
p.s. if that doesn't work electrocute the little f
rAlso
1 thats not the whole story, only a clip. What were they up to before,for one to be restrained before the other?
2 The police were out numbered and being threatened.
Self defence by the police IMHO
if those kids behave like that towards the police imagine how the would treat other "normal" people!
1 thats not the whole story, only a clip. What were they up to before,for one to be restrained before the other?
2 The police were out numbered and being threatened.
Self defence by the police IMHO
if those kids behave like that towards the police imagine how the would treat other "normal" people!
I have actually no idea wether excessive violence was used in that video or not because it doesn't tell the whole story.
There is one lad on the floor allready being cuffed.
Now they look like a bunch of chavs but are they or is that a predjudiced opinion from someone middle class. Or an assumtion.
Why was the lad on the floor?
Did the other youth feel threatened.
Was the policemans body language threatening and did the push in the face create a situation giving the youth no other option but to respond.
You would need to know why the police were there in the first place to know wether any actions by either party were excessive.
There is one lad on the floor allready being cuffed.
Now they look like a bunch of chavs but are they or is that a predjudiced opinion from someone middle class. Or an assumtion.
Why was the lad on the floor?
Did the other youth feel threatened.
Was the policemans body language threatening and did the push in the face create a situation giving the youth no other option but to respond.
You would need to know why the police were there in the first place to know wether any actions by either party were excessive.
Don't know the background history but the cop provoked him with a push to the face. That would annoy anybody into fight or flight. That wasn't needed. The other guy had a think, didn't know what else to do without losing face so nutted the cop. Reckon I'd have took him down (the cop) but with some more style. Both of them were out of order imo. Cop abusing powers and civvie being like a thug followed by cop doing the same. A lose, lose situation.
Sorry not to conform chaps - I don't buy into the whole BiB bashing gig, and invairably see Chavs for what they are (in their youth); But, if a Police Officer palmed me in the face without an attempt to cuff me I would put him on his arse and ensure he stayed there.
I'm in agreement that the whole story of the clip is not seen, but palming the guy does not calm the situation - either arrest or call for back-up, not assult.
If the 'chav' in question got busted for this I'd be appalled - sorry if that offends.
Best,
Donny
I'm in agreement that the whole story of the clip is not seen, but palming the guy does not calm the situation - either arrest or call for back-up, not assult.
If the 'chav' in question got busted for this I'd be appalled - sorry if that offends.
Best,
Donny
I really do feel sorry for the police these days.
they seem to be in a permanant lose lose situation.
there is always someone to claim they acted unfairly, or too harshly.
At the end of the day, these guys work very hard, and for what?
Chavs to headbutt them?
Drunks to openly abuse them on the street?
we all know i could go on...
How would you react if it was you, or a family member who felt intimidated and threatened?
cut these guys some slack. They do a very difficult job, and most of them do it very well. In this case, I trust in his judgement, that this was the right thing to do.
they seem to be in a permanant lose lose situation.
there is always someone to claim they acted unfairly, or too harshly.
At the end of the day, these guys work very hard, and for what?
Chavs to headbutt them?
Drunks to openly abuse them on the street?
we all know i could go on...
How would you react if it was you, or a family member who felt intimidated and threatened?
cut these guys some slack. They do a very difficult job, and most of them do it very well. In this case, I trust in his judgement, that this was the right thing to do.
Donny, I'm guessing you have no idea about Officer Safety Techniques or Police training. I've broken your post down in an attempt to answer some of your points (not to have a dig at you).
Having been in a similar situation myself on many an occasion, people will get involced for no reason, and not usually on the side of the BiB, just because someone's been arrested on "their" patch/estate/manor. There are some places you could have arrested Peter Sutcliffe/Ian Huntley/Harold Shipman, and the locals would have a go at you, just because you're BiB. (Cue can of worms about how the Police have lost the respect of the public because of speed enforcement/long resposne times/insert your choice of poor Police service here... )
We don't know what is in the officer's mind. He could have previously been assaulted by the subject, so is using preemption to try and deal with him, which, as long as it can be jsutified, is lawful. The BiB may have intelligence that the lad carries weapons. There are a LOT of variables, but as you've said, it's another of those situations where we don't know the full story, so difficult to be completely prescriptive about it.
DonnyMac said:
...if a Police Officer palmed me in the face...
That strike (known as a "palm strike" ) is a technique that is approved, taught and used on a regular basis by the BiB. It has much less injury potential for the suspect than being hit with a fist or baton, especially in the face.DonnyMac said:
...without an attempt to cuff me...
You can (should) only ever cuff a compliant subject. I can't get sound when I play the clip back, so I can't hear what is said (by BiB, subject or third parties). The palm strike is designed to distract the subject (a "mental stun" ) and also put them off balance.DonnyMac said:
I would put him on his arse and ensure he stayed there...
You've also obviously never tried to handcuff a non-compliant subject. It is extremely difficult to do, with the chances of injury to either party rising exponentially.DonnyMac said:
I'm in agreement that the whole story of the clip is not seen, but palming the guy does not calm the situation
What would calm it? As you say, the clip doesn't show the whole story (and I'm posting without the benefit of sound as well, so I could be talking complete blocks if the BiB is saying "Fark off sonny I'm going to slap you good..." )DonnyMac said:
- either arrest or call for back-up, not assault.
Well it looks to me like he is arresting him! Police officers are allowed to use reasonable force (as are MoP). With only the pictures, everything in that clip is against the BiB. There is a colleague on the floor with a subject. The BiB are outnumbered, and no doubt there are more reinforcements more readily avaiable for the "chavs" as you call them, rather than the BiB. It's amazing how quickly "friends and onlookers" appear out of the woodwork and feel obliged to get stuck in, because the BiB have arrested "our Kylie/our Tyson".Having been in a similar situation myself on many an occasion, people will get involced for no reason, and not usually on the side of the BiB, just because someone's been arrested on "their" patch/estate/manor. There are some places you could have arrested Peter Sutcliffe/Ian Huntley/Harold Shipman, and the locals would have a go at you, just because you're BiB. (Cue can of worms about how the Police have lost the respect of the public because of speed enforcement/long resposne times/insert your choice of poor Police service here... )
We don't know what is in the officer's mind. He could have previously been assaulted by the subject, so is using preemption to try and deal with him, which, as long as it can be jsutified, is lawful. The BiB may have intelligence that the lad carries weapons. There are a LOT of variables, but as you've said, it's another of those situations where we don't know the full story, so difficult to be completely prescriptive about it.
I think it's fairly sad that anyone would even consider that striking an officer in uniform was in any way justifiable. Provocation or no. It's akin to stoning fireman or ambulance crew - totally out of order.
Hopefully the sentence will reflect this and he will be looking at serious time.
Hopefully the sentence will reflect this and he will be looking at serious time.
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