Pondering an Elise
Discussion
Hello all.
Am considering switching the 964 for an Elise of similar value - somewhere around £15k. Based on a trawl through old motoring mags (EVO, Car) the 111s seems to get a pretty good press, as does the newer Toyota engined car (as do all other Elises ever made, to be fair!)
At the risk of provoking a similar response to the typical 964 vs 993 vs 996 conversations on the Porsche forum
, what are the views as to which is the better bet for around my price range? Is it worth stretching to the newer version?
Am considering switching the 964 for an Elise of similar value - somewhere around £15k. Based on a trawl through old motoring mags (EVO, Car) the 111s seems to get a pretty good press, as does the newer Toyota engined car (as do all other Elises ever made, to be fair!)
At the risk of provoking a similar response to the typical 964 vs 993 vs 996 conversations on the Porsche forum
, what are the views as to which is the better bet for around my price range? Is it worth stretching to the newer version?PaulZR said:
Cheers.
General preference would be for something with a decent torque spread across the rev-range - I confess I have never been a huge fan of 'obviously' twin cam engines (Honda VTEC for example).
The R has a massive kick at 6300rpm when the second cam kicks in so you probably want to avoid that (motorsport ECU changes that to 5750 rpm). The K series engine is not known for its torque either, the VVC powered 111S is better but not great.General preference would be for something with a decent torque spread across the rev-range - I confess I have never been a huge fan of 'obviously' twin cam engines (Honda VTEC for example).
Try having a look at Audi converted cars, huge amounts of torgue. You'll only squeeze an S1 converted one for your 15k though.
Paul RN said:
PaulZR said:
Cheers.
General preference would be for something with a decent torque spread across the rev-range - I confess I have never been a huge fan of 'obviously' twin cam engines (Honda VTEC for example).
The R has a massive kick at 6300rpm when the second cam kicks in so you probably want to avoid that (motorsport ECU changes that to 5750 rpm). The K series engine is not known for its torque either, the VVC powered 111S is better but not great.General preference would be for something with a decent torque spread across the rev-range - I confess I have never been a huge fan of 'obviously' twin cam engines (Honda VTEC for example).
Try having a look at Audi converted cars, huge amounts of torgue. You'll only squeeze an S1 converted one for your 15k though.
111S is the best road car variant in the S2 range I think.I think its the torqueist (?) drive of them all, and to be recommended.
Later S isnt bad either, but you wont get in one of those at £15k.
Drive one, if you like cars that tell you whats happening, you will never buy another sports car.
Later S isnt bad either, but you wont get in one of those at £15k.
Drive one, if you like cars that tell you whats happening, you will never buy another sports car.
Zebede29 said:
Paul RN said:
PaulZR said:
Cheers.
General preference would be for something with a decent torque spread across the rev-range - I confess I have never been a huge fan of 'obviously' twin cam engines (Honda VTEC for example).
The R has a massive kick at 6300rpm when the second cam kicks in so you probably want to avoid that (motorsport ECU changes that to 5750 rpm). The K series engine is not known for its torque either, the VVC powered 111S is better but not great.General preference would be for something with a decent torque spread across the rev-range - I confess I have never been a huge fan of 'obviously' twin cam engines (Honda VTEC for example).
Try having a look at Audi converted cars, huge amounts of torgue. You'll only squeeze an S1 converted one for your 15k though.
I certainly agree that the VVC is the better option for the progressive application of its torgue though.
Drive as many of the different engine models as you can to see what you like!
If you search you'll find plenty of 111S vs 111R arguments to trawl through! 
The best answer is to test drive both. My findings after doing so:
The best answer is to test drive both. My findings after doing so:
- 111R with touring pack was a bit more refined than the 111S, which has a 'touring pack' as standard.
- The 111S felt lighter on its feet than the 111R.
- The 111R's servo brakes weren't to my taste. The pedal sunk too low and the pedal action was a bit light for me. Heel and toe was also virtually impossible. Problem solved when the electronic throttle came in (2005?), but at £15k you wouldn't be looking at these models I don't think. Pedal feel good on the 111R though.
- The 111R's ride and handling seemed a little better than the 111S - a little more finely judged. I haven't spent long enough with both cars to say this with authority and conviction though.
- The power delivery of the 111R was very odd. Nothing till about 6,000+ and then a sudden kick. I'm not sure if I owned and cherished a car how much I'd experience this, especially seeing as it comes at quite a high speed in 2nd gear. I'd want the engine completely warmed up (10 minutes drive) before I went anywhere near this point.
- Do a search for my graphs of power/weight over the rev range for both cars - there's not as much in it performance wise as you might think. IIRC, the 111R has the slight edge above the power band, and the 111S the slight edge below it.
- I've no doubt that the Toyota engine is more durable.
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 15th October 10:05
From what you've said, it sounds like a 111S is the best car for you. It was my prefered choice for a number of reasons - torque, ease of driving, fuel economy/tax band...
Try a 111R though, you might find you like the obviously twin cam nature of it in such a light car even if you didn't in more mundane cars. It does feel a bit gutless at low revs though where the 111S pulls reasonably hard everywhere in the rev range.
Try a VX220t too.
Try a 111R though, you might find you like the obviously twin cam nature of it in such a light car even if you didn't in more mundane cars. It does feel a bit gutless at low revs though where the 111S pulls reasonably hard everywhere in the rev range.
Try a VX220t too.
buy my old bus....
S2's are depreciating through the floor, mainly due to their homosexual owners leaving in droves to buy Audi TT's in a nice shade of duck-egg blue.
Lairy-arsed SVA Sport 160's however are for blokes that eat yorkie-bars and would never consider wearing chaps & straps or growing a dodgy moustache.
A future classic by any measure and yours for only £13,000!
S2's are depreciating through the floor, mainly due to their homosexual owners leaving in droves to buy Audi TT's in a nice shade of duck-egg blue.
Lairy-arsed SVA Sport 160's however are for blokes that eat yorkie-bars and would never consider wearing chaps & straps or growing a dodgy moustache.
A future classic by any measure and yours for only £13,000!
PaulZR said:
Thanks for the advice chaps. VX220 T is a bl**dy good idea actually - £15k seems to get a pretty decent example. Looks like it's between that and a 111s.
Yep - good choices. Do drive the 111R though - you might as well as £15k is a fair wedge to spend if you'll never know whether you'd have preferred the R.Paul RN said:
Zebede29 said:
Paul RN said:
PaulZR said:
Cheers.
General preference would be for something with a decent torque spread across the rev-range - I confess I have never been a huge fan of 'obviously' twin cam engines (Honda VTEC for example).
The R has a massive kick at 6300rpm when the second cam kicks in so you probably want to avoid that (motorsport ECU changes that to 5750 rpm). The K series engine is not known for its torque either, the VVC powered 111S is better but not great.General preference would be for something with a decent torque spread across the rev-range - I confess I have never been a huge fan of 'obviously' twin cam engines (Honda VTEC for example).
Try having a look at Audi converted cars, huge amounts of torgue. You'll only squeeze an S1 converted one for your 15k though.
I certainly agree that the VVC is the better option for the progressive application of its torgue though.
Drive as many of the different engine models as you can to see what you like!
My point was that for a standard production model the 111S makes good sense on the kind of budget the poster has available - and it's factory-sorted from birth in all essential areas.
People forget that Elise ownership relative to regular car driving is a TOTALLY different world, we (existing owners) all get so used to Lotuses of various guises and sometimes when a prospective new owner needs advice, something like an Audi converted car would just scare him/her off to the nearest Porsche dealership with their head in their hands weeping and begging for a "normal" car!
Zebede29 said:
Paul RN said:
Zebede29 said:
Paul RN said:
PaulZR said:
Cheers.
General preference would be for something with a decent torque spread across the rev-range - I confess I have never been a huge fan of 'obviously' twin cam engines (Honda VTEC for example).
The R has a massive kick at 6300rpm when the second cam kicks in so you probably want to avoid that (motorsport ECU changes that to 5750 rpm). The K series engine is not known for its torque either, the VVC powered 111S is better but not great.General preference would be for something with a decent torque spread across the rev-range - I confess I have never been a huge fan of 'obviously' twin cam engines (Honda VTEC for example).
Try having a look at Audi converted cars, huge amounts of torgue. You'll only squeeze an S1 converted one for your 15k though.
I certainly agree that the VVC is the better option for the progressive application of its torgue though.
Drive as many of the different engine models as you can to see what you like!
My point was that for a standard production model the 111S makes good sense on the kind of budget the poster has available - and it's factory-sorted from birth in all essential areas.
People forget that Elise ownership relative to regular car driving is a TOTALLY different world, we (existing owners) all get so used to Lotuses of various guises and sometimes when a prospective new owner needs advice, something like an Audi converted car would just scare him/her off to the nearest Porsche dealership with their head in their hands weeping and begging for a "normal" car!
Pop along to the next "buckles" meet for Nyloc and there should be a good few folk to have a word with, Tue 23rd. Just a couple of miles from York.
Details on website for meets.
Dunx.
http://forum.nyloc.org/
Details on website for meets.
Dunx.
http://forum.nyloc.org/
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