electrical colours
Discussion
Think this may be legal issue so SPL (also my fave forum) is the place to post it.
All to do with the new 'harmonised' electrical wiring colours, and a well known DIY store.
Apparently the new colours are to bring us into live with something or other, and to avoid discrimination againsts colour blind people becoming electricians (may just be pub talk however)
Old installation wiring colours were..........
Red - Live
Black - Neutral,
central copper conductor - earth
All fairly easy to work out - Red is the painful wire.
Flex used to be the same but sometime in the 70's I think changed to........
Brown - Live
Blue - Neutral
green/yellow - earth
Not quite as obvious but been with us for 30 years or so - not too much of a prob.
The 3 phase colours were......
Red - Live
Yellow - Live
Blue - Live
Black - Neutral
Bit of a swap with Blue but it's usually only eletricians that deal, and not joe public as domestic houses don't usually have 3 phase supplies to them.
And now the new colours...............
Flex colours remain..........
3 phase is now
Brown - Live
Black - Live
Grey - Live
Blue - neutral
So, black is now live, blue is neutral again, and grey is the newbie.
What makes things even more interesting is the fact that a well known DIY store is selling 3 phase delta cable as single phase for it's armoured cable, with instructions on what the core colours are..........
Brown - Live
Grey - Neutral
Black - Earth.
So, if you've not fallen asleep already, a summary.
Black - live, or neutral, or earth
Blue - Live, or neutral,
grey - Live, or neutral,
So, watch those black wires!
All to do with the new 'harmonised' electrical wiring colours, and a well known DIY store.
Apparently the new colours are to bring us into live with something or other, and to avoid discrimination againsts colour blind people becoming electricians (may just be pub talk however)
Old installation wiring colours were..........
Red - Live
Black - Neutral,
central copper conductor - earth
All fairly easy to work out - Red is the painful wire.
Flex used to be the same but sometime in the 70's I think changed to........
Brown - Live
Blue - Neutral
green/yellow - earth
Not quite as obvious but been with us for 30 years or so - not too much of a prob.
The 3 phase colours were......
Red - Live
Yellow - Live
Blue - Live
Black - Neutral
Bit of a swap with Blue but it's usually only eletricians that deal, and not joe public as domestic houses don't usually have 3 phase supplies to them.
And now the new colours...............
Flex colours remain..........
3 phase is now
Brown - Live
Black - Live
Grey - Live
Blue - neutral
So, black is now live, blue is neutral again, and grey is the newbie.
What makes things even more interesting is the fact that a well known DIY store is selling 3 phase delta cable as single phase for it's armoured cable, with instructions on what the core colours are..........
Brown - Live
Grey - Neutral
Black - Earth.
So, if you've not fallen asleep already, a summary.
Black - live, or neutral, or earth
Blue - Live, or neutral,
grey - Live, or neutral,
So, watch those black wires!
bryan35 said:
What makes things even more interesting is the fact that a well known DIY store is selling 3 phase delta cable as single phase for it's armoured cable, with instructions on what the core colours are..........
Brown - Live
Grey - Neutral
Black - Earth.
Not quite - if it's 3-phase 3-wire (i.e. for use in a balanced 3-phase load being connected as you say DETLA), then the cable is correct, as the earth is the Steel Wire Armour. So that is:Brown - Live
Grey - Neutral
Black - Earth.
Brown L1
Grey L2
Black L3
SWA Earth
I'm sure they cannot legally sell it for any other use (EU Directive, CE Marking & all that).
Edit to add: The SWA must be earthed to make any installation compliant in the UK
Edited by Smiler. on Monday 15th October 09:40
All I did was heat shrink colours over the cables to make it clear what they were.
Rather do my own electrical work and have it inspected than trust an electrician. Then you know the jobs been done right.
Once got a 'qualified' electrician in and the prat had used 1.5 twin and earth for one part a ring main (socket to socket)
He insisted that you could do that, and as I hadn't read the 16th ed wasn't in a place to disagree. In actual fact, he'd run out of 2.5 and using 1.5 saved him from going to the wholesalers.
Wasn't a fan of tightening screws and securing dis boards to the wall either. Had to re-do the lot.
Rather do my own electrical work and have it inspected than trust an electrician. Then you know the jobs been done right.
Once got a 'qualified' electrician in and the prat had used 1.5 twin and earth for one part a ring main (socket to socket)
He insisted that you could do that, and as I hadn't read the 16th ed wasn't in a place to disagree. In actual fact, he'd run out of 2.5 and using 1.5 saved him from going to the wholesalers.
Wasn't a fan of tightening screws and securing dis boards to the wall either. Had to re-do the lot.
bryan35 said:
Apparently the new colours are to bring us into live with something or other,
Considering subject matter has to be the Freudian slip of the day.Aren't they contravening some regs, or is it a case of not illegal to sell but illegal to use it that way?
Needs reporting or at least questioning with TPTB imo.
Smiler. said:
bryan35 said:
What makes things even more interesting is the fact that a well known DIY store is selling 3 phase delta cable as single phase for it's armoured cable, with instructions on what the core colours are..........
Brown - Live
Grey - Neutral
Black - Earth.
Not quite - if it's 3-phase 3-wire (i.e. for use in a balanced 3-phase load being connected as you say DETLA), then the cable is correct, as the earth is the Steel Wire Armour. So that is:Brown - Live
Grey - Neutral
Black - Earth.
Brown L1
Grey L2
Black L3
SWA Earth
I'm sure they cannot legally sell it for any other use (EU Directive, CE Marking & all that).
Edit to add: The SWA must be earthed to make any installation compliant in the UK
The store ought to be reported to Trading Standards.
Smiler. said:
bryan35 said:
not being a pedant, but black is L2, not L1.
Eh?Edited by Deva Link on Monday 15th October 11:53
Deva Link said:
Smiler. said:
bryan35 said:
not being a pedant, but black is L2, not L1.
Eh?Edited by Deva Link on Monday 15th October 11:53
That'll learn me not to read from the draft BSI Issue
Non of this actually matters in domestic installations, as part "p" of the building regulations has made it virtually illegal for the diy'er to do electrical work, unless within accepted scope of allowable work, or is tested by the council, even trades including electricians should be part p registered to do work.
THEY CAN AND THEY WILL PROSECUTE if you fail to comply.
The change in cable colours was brought about to "harmonise" with european standards, i believe this is to allow foreign workers to easily work in the uk having trained abroad, not that there aren't other reasons, such as we can now use cheaper european cable.(not sure about the colour blind bit)
cable colours for a three phase supply(415v)4 core armoured cable were
red- live 1
yellow- live 2
blue- live 3
black- neutral
earthing it taken from amourings of cable in most cases
when the circuit was single phase
red- live 1
yellow- earth(cpc)
blue neutral
under the harmonised system
cable colours for a three phase supply(415v)4 core armoured cable
brown- live 1
black- live 2
grey- live 3
blue-neutral
when the circuit is single phase
brown- live 1
black- earth(cpc)
grey- neutral
although it adds to the confusion the black is used for the earth as it is taken to be the centre conductor of the cable, though conductors should identified with a colour marker to show useage.
The cable most people are likely to come across is "twin and earth" as used in houses, where there are two cables and an earth conductor insulated in a pvc outer, as you are looking at red/black or brown and blue this simplifies the process, especially if all in one standard, and as just about all electrical items come with a fitted plug that's something else that no longer has to be done
edited for spelling
THEY CAN AND THEY WILL PROSECUTE if you fail to comply.
The change in cable colours was brought about to "harmonise" with european standards, i believe this is to allow foreign workers to easily work in the uk having trained abroad, not that there aren't other reasons, such as we can now use cheaper european cable.(not sure about the colour blind bit)
cable colours for a three phase supply(415v)4 core armoured cable were
red- live 1
yellow- live 2
blue- live 3
black- neutral
earthing it taken from amourings of cable in most cases
when the circuit was single phase
red- live 1
yellow- earth(cpc)
blue neutral
under the harmonised system
cable colours for a three phase supply(415v)4 core armoured cable
brown- live 1
black- live 2
grey- live 3
blue-neutral
when the circuit is single phase
brown- live 1
black- earth(cpc)
grey- neutral
although it adds to the confusion the black is used for the earth as it is taken to be the centre conductor of the cable, though conductors should identified with a colour marker to show useage.
The cable most people are likely to come across is "twin and earth" as used in houses, where there are two cables and an earth conductor insulated in a pvc outer, as you are looking at red/black or brown and blue this simplifies the process, especially if all in one standard, and as just about all electrical items come with a fitted plug that's something else that no longer has to be done
edited for spelling
Edited by Brite spark on Monday 15th October 17:34
Edited by Brite spark on Monday 15th October 17:49
Brite spark said:
Non of this actually matters in domestic installations, as part "p" of the building regulations has made it virtually illegal for the diy'er to do electrical work, unless within accepted scope of allowable work, or is inspected by the council, even trades including electricians must be part p registered to self certify work.
THEY CAN AND THEY WILL PROSECUTE if you fail to comply.
The change in cable colours was brought about to "harmonise" with european standards, i believe this is to allow foreign workers to easily work in the uk having trained abroad, not that there aren't other reasons, such as we can now use cheaper european cable.(not sure about the colour blind bit)
cable colours for a three phase supply(400v)4 core armoured cable were
red- live 1
yellow- live 2
blue- live 3
black- neutral
earthing it taken from amourings of cable in most cases
when the circuit was single phase
red- live 1
yellow- earth(cpc) (with green/yellow sleeving)
blue neutral (with black sleeving)
under the harmonised system
cable colours for a three phase supply(400v)4 core armoured cable
brown- live 1
black- live 2
grey- live 3
blue-neutral
when the circuit is single phase
brown- live 1
black- earth(cpc) (with green/yellow sleeving)
grey- neutral (with blue sleeving)
although it adds to the confusion the black is used for the earth as it is taken to be the centre conductor of the cable, though conductors must be identified with a colour marker to show useage.
The cable most people are likely to come across is "twin and earth" as used in houses, where there are two cables and an earth conductor sheathed in a pvc outer, as you are looking at red/black or brown and blue this simplifies the process, especially if all in one standard, and as just about all electrical items come with a fitted plug that's something else that no longer has to be done
edited for spelling
Edited for accuracy!THEY CAN AND THEY WILL PROSECUTE if you fail to comply.
The change in cable colours was brought about to "harmonise" with european standards, i believe this is to allow foreign workers to easily work in the uk having trained abroad, not that there aren't other reasons, such as we can now use cheaper european cable.(not sure about the colour blind bit)
cable colours for a three phase supply(400v)4 core armoured cable were
red- live 1
yellow- live 2
blue- live 3
black- neutral
earthing it taken from amourings of cable in most cases
when the circuit was single phase
red- live 1
yellow- earth(cpc) (with green/yellow sleeving)
blue neutral (with black sleeving)
under the harmonised system
cable colours for a three phase supply(400v)4 core armoured cable
brown- live 1
black- live 2
grey- live 3
blue-neutral
when the circuit is single phase
brown- live 1
black- earth(cpc) (with green/yellow sleeving)
grey- neutral (with blue sleeving)
although it adds to the confusion the black is used for the earth as it is taken to be the centre conductor of the cable, though conductors must be identified with a colour marker to show useage.
The cable most people are likely to come across is "twin and earth" as used in houses, where there are two cables and an earth conductor sheathed in a pvc outer, as you are looking at red/black or brown and blue this simplifies the process, especially if all in one standard, and as just about all electrical items come with a fitted plug that's something else that no longer has to be done
edited for spelling
Edited by Brite spark on Monday 15th October 17:34
Edited by Brite spark on Monday 15th October 17:49
The Local authority will not test an electrical installation. They will (if you can get them off their arses) inspect the installation and demand certificates.
Nominal voltage, as of January 2005, is 400V three phase and 230V single phase.
There is no alternative colour codes. When using cables that are incorectly colour coded, you must sleeve the cables to identify them. BS 7671 does not specify that you use yellow as earth (old colours) or black as neutral (new colours) prior to sleeving, it is just the most common choice.
The primary purpose of the grey outer sheathing on 'twin & earth' is to provide mechanical protection, not insulation, which is provided by the covering on the copper conductors.
Sorry to be a pedantic git!
funny when you think.
Environmentalist rattle on about not leaving the telly in standby to save the polar ice caps (or something) and yet dropping the supply voltage means an increase in supply current at the local end with more losses in the cable as heat.
AND, 'energy efficient' light bulbs make it worse. Nomal fillament bulbs will just be a bit dimmer, whereas electronic bulbs just draw more current to compensate!
fantastic!
Environmentalist rattle on about not leaving the telly in standby to save the polar ice caps (or something) and yet dropping the supply voltage means an increase in supply current at the local end with more losses in the cable as heat.
AND, 'energy efficient' light bulbs make it worse. Nomal fillament bulbs will just be a bit dimmer, whereas electronic bulbs just draw more current to compensate!
fantastic!
Brite spark said:
The change in cable colours was brought about to "harmonise" with european standards...
And wouldn't it be great if it did? In France neutral MUST be blue - this has been the case for many years if not always - earth MUST be green/yellow but line, or live, or phase can be any other colour. Typically they've used black, but lo and behold, around the same time that the UK 'harmonized' and stopped using red as a phase conductor, guess what the French started using?....Plotloss said:
Are we not harmonising with europe?
Losing a volt or two every year until it gets to 220v?
As someone has said, you will still measure around 240V, which is within tolerance (216-253V). As new substation equipment is installed as part of routine replacement, the voltage will drop. The grid will still distribute at the same voltages as present, only substation equipment will change.Losing a volt or two every year until it gets to 220v?
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