From 111R to 2-11?

[bher]

In my quest for more track day joy, I am playing with the idea of changing my track oriented 111R (ohlins, A048, ARB, ,Pagid, harnesses) for a road legal version of the 2-11.
This resolve my endless dilema of supercharging my elise officialy (MY08 SC elise) of non offic (bemani, komotech,...)

The good points are
very very efficient track weapon
Lotus official and probably better resale value, even than elise/exige
looking very odd in my usual urban area


The bad points are
Belgium is as rainy as England
looking very odd in my usual urban area
40,000£ is a lot for less
12 month garanty only (why?)

Any comments?

[Gooby]

Dont you use your car as a daily driver?
the 2-11 has no heater and no windscreen and no roof.

TBH, I think it is a bit of a bad idea.

[Boggy]

Morning all,

I'd love the 2 11 but as Gooby said if you use your car more than once a week on the road the Exige/Elise is the way to go. Not saying for one minute that I wouldn't have the 2 11 as I would but I'd have to have a Europa as well

Boggy

[toxic frog]

Gooby said:

Dont you use your car as a daily driver?
the 2-11 has no heater and no windscreen and no roof.

TBH, I think it is a bit of a bad idea.

does it have a 12v lighter socket?.... if it does, then then surely you can plug yourself in with some heated clothing and view the car as jolly large motorcycle.

[DsDetective]

I'm thinking of getting a cheap hatch-back for when it's rainy or I can't be arsed and a 2-11 for all of the rest of the time

I know a couple of people who've driven one and I've never known them to be so utterly smitten with a car. Haven't had a go myself yet - which is probably a good thing for my bank balance!

[TonyHetherington]

Fish used to have an Atom. You could only really use it's full potential on the track (obviously. It was rapid as anything). Anyway, in the 15 or 20 track days that he did he got, in total, over all of them, 3 flying laps.

The rest of the time he spent over taking people in "normal" road cars.

Now, the point I'm trying to make is that I think cars can be too good for the track, and even in "advanced" groups on a track day, cars like the 2-11 will be overtaking everything all day and you'll never get an opportunity to enjoy the experience that it has. would you have more fun than, say, an Exige?

It is a flipping awesome machine, however, do think about the above anecdote from an ex-Atom owner (not me).

[RobM77]

With a background in owning and riding in Caterhams, all I can say regarding the 2-11 is that the main issue is weatherproofing. It's easy to throw an extra fleece on if it gets cold, or some waterproofs if it rains, but it's the car's interior that I'd worry about the most in such conditions.

I was thinking about the 2-11 on the walk home from work last night. It's one hell of a car, but £40k is an awful lot of money. There's no question that I'd have one if I already had an Elise and maybe a Cayman or NSX for long journeys etc etc, but I can't help thinking that a £20k Elise and a £20k Caterham/Radical would be a better option, and possibly a cheap tow car also. If you have the space, that's what I'd do.

[TonyHetherington]

It's a good point, Rob. For the £40k that is required there are perhaps other avenues you could go; like you say, Caterham or Radical and a tow car, something like that.

[bher]

Thanks for the replies.

I have a very normal car for everyday use.

In fact, I did 20,000 miles on 2 years with the elise and mainly track days. I use it every week end for a short drive when not on track, just for the fun, very seldom for driving one of my 3 kids or shopping.

I am now facing the big question to go more hard core but I DO NOT WANT a trailer OR to keep the elise till belgian MOT rule will refuse it (due to the mods) and then move to something more everyday friendly but efficient (second hand GT3RS?)

Good question about the 12V socket, I will check saturday if the dealer got the one he expect.

[bher]

TonyHetherington said:

Now, the point I'm trying to make is that I think cars can be too good for the track, and even in "advanced" groups on a track day, cars like the 2-11 will be overtaking everything all day and you'll never get an opportunity to enjoy the experience that it has. would you have more fun than, say, an Exige?
.

Very interesting comment. As I do not want to be alone ahead of everybody (assuming my driving style allows it). Sane competition is very positive and entertaining. But as I mentionned in other topics the improvement coming from the exige S, even at 240bhp does not probably worth the money in comparaison to my car (I mean in my hands). The 2-11 is probably in another league


Do you think that the inside in NOT waterproof? I hope it is otherwise it is a NO-NO.

Edited by bher on Tuesday 16th October 10:33

[RobM77]

TonyHetherington said:

It's a good point, Rob. For the £40k that is required there are perhaps other avenues you could go; like you say, Caterham or Radical and a tow car, something like that.

Thanks. It's important not to go too far though. For a long period I had an old E36 325i and a Caterham, and at the end of the day it cheesed me off that I had £22k's worth of cars but drove round in a barge all day! Thus my reccomendation of keeping the Elise.

Your point is well worth heeding as well Tony. Caterhams are enormous fun on track, but on ordinary track days the performance differential to other cars made it all a bit silly. Even my bog standard VVC Caterham was overtaking M3s, Clios, Elises, 911s etc at the rate of about seven or eight per lap. The best escape from this are obviously Caterham track days (I bet you won't find a 2-11 one...), more expensive RMA days etc where the cars are faster, or test days if you have a license. Having said that, I'm almost certain that the 2-11 would be more fun to drive than an Elise or an Exige, so it's a toss up between the two it seems.

[Boggy]

bher said:

Thanks for the replies.

I have a very normal car for everyday use.

In fact, I did 20,000 miles on 2 years with the elise and mainly track days. I use it every week end for a short drive when not on track, just for the fun, very seldom for driving one of my 3 kids or shopping.

I am now facing the big question to go more hard core but I DO NOT WANT a trailer OR to keep the elise till belgian MOT rule will refuse it (due to the mods) and then move to something more everyday friendly but efficient (second hand GT3RS?)

Good question about the 12V socket, I will check saturday if the dealer got the one he expect.

No problem then I'd buy the 2 11, I'd hope it would be waterproof inside thou

Boggy

[RobM77]

If it's just for occasional drives I'd definitely go for something a bit more hardcore than the Elise - the 2-11 should be perfect. Based on what you've said above, don't go for a Radical, the passenger seat isn't really one and you'll want to trailer it everywhere. Caterhams still take some beating - try and get a test drive in a 7 before you part with the cash for the 2-11 - the general feeling in a 7 is of less sophistication than the Lotus chassis - more edgy and thus demanding a smoother driving style to go fast.

[Furyous]

2-11 is a superb drive.The extra power and lower weight really do make it feel a much more positive and alive car, even compared with a zige S.

As far as it being too fast for track days, I reckon that its going to take some while before anyone is fully pushing it hard enough to be overtaking everything.

[RobM77]

Furyous said:

2-11 is a superb drive.The extra power and lower weight really do make it feel a much more positive and alive car, even compared with a zige S.

As far as it being too fast for track days, I reckon that its going to take some while before anyone is fully pushing it hard enough to be overtaking everything.

That would depend on the experience and ability of the driver. In racing, when trying new cars, most experienced drivers are normally within a second or two of the pace after only around five or six laps. You'd get so close you wouldn't notice the difference visually after ten of fifteen laps.

[S Works]

How much is the cost to Bemani vs. the cost to buy a 2-eleven?

Then factor in year 1-3 depreciation, and I think you'll find the Bemani starts becoming a rather compelling alternative if you want more power.

If you don't want an aftermarket kit, I'd be inclined to hang on until '08 Benoit and see if Lotus do end up coming out with an SC'd Elise. Might be cheaper to return yours to standard, keep the upgraded parts you have, then transfer onto a new factory SC'd car if that's what you prefer.

[bher]

S Works said:

If you don't want an aftermarket kit, I'd be inclined to hang on until '08 Benoit and see if Lotus do end up coming out with an SC'd Elise. Might be cheaper to return yours to standard, keep the upgraded parts you have, then transfer onto a new factory SC'd car if that's what you prefer.

You are reading in my brain but that was last week thinking. I was very interested by the 2008 SC elise which will pop up at Tokyo motorshow on oct 26th.
But according to my sources, the retrofit kit won't be available before 2009.
The price of the 2008 SC elise is "only" 6500£ less than the 2-11. I agree I will loose a lot by not transfering all the good bits I have now on my elise but I can sell them separetely...

[RobM77]

bher said:

S Works said:

If you don't want an aftermarket kit, I'd be inclined to hang on until '08 Benoit and see if Lotus do end up coming out with an SC'd Elise. Might be cheaper to return yours to standard, keep the upgraded parts you have, then transfer onto a new factory SC'd car if that's what you prefer.

You are reading in my brain but that was last week thinking. I was very interested by the 2008 SC elise which will pop up at Tokyo motorshow on oct 26th.
But according to my sources, the retrofit kit won't be available before 2009.
The price of the 2008 SC elise is "only" 6500£ less than the 2-11. I agree I will loose a lot by not transfering all the good bits I have now on my elise but I can sell them separetely...

Do bear in mind that you might get the power of a 2-11, but you'll never quite get the feeling of immediacy or lightweight handling I'm presuming the 2-11 has (I've not driven one). For example, I've been in plenty of cars quicker than my Caterham in a straight line, and a few quicker round a track too, but none of them had that same feeling of lightweight.

[squirejo]

I have not driven the 2-11 - but I have owned a caterham and a 340r as trackday cars, as part of a 2-car policy.
I have also tried to run a 'one size fits all' policy - but have concluded there's no such thing. It ddoes not matter how hardcore a road car is - it will be flawed in some way - usually lacking fun factor on the trak. I have just moved from a gallardo to a BMW 335d coupe and an exige 240R. I do not have the luxury of a 4x4, driveway and space for a trailer - as if I did, without question I would have a 211 / Atom etc.
Without this, as the 340r proved to me, no roof = rubbish. Weatherproof or not, I need to drive to and from a trackday and want to be able to go somewhere at the weekend without fear of rain / vandalism etc. it is not fun on the M11 at 7am in the rain with no roof. No windscreen? No thanks.


So far - 240r proving to be very good at everything I want it for.

Edited by squirejo on Tuesday 16th October 16:53

[Stephanie Plum]

What do people mean by waterproof inside the 2-11? If you mean the seats - they look to me like they've been treated - and if they eventually get ruined by prolonged exposure to the wet they aren't going to be that expensive to recover/replace. Not much else in there - the clocks/start button won't get wet unless you park it out in the rain without it's cover on(showerproof one) - they are also designing a tonneau cover, so not really an issue?

Not bothered about the overtaking on track days - though I will select my circuits carefully - Brands Hatch Indy will be a no no for example, whereas the Gp would be fab The Honda powered cars will be catching me up on some of the longer straights anyway, so no difference to being in one of those really?