Travel during company time Q??
Discussion
I am currenlty going through a disagreement with my boss regarding travel time to and from a confrence.
Facts.
confrence is 140 mile away from my usual office.
Travel Time was around 2.5 hrs each way.
My usual commute is 15 minutes & 7 miles in length.
I have stuck in my time sheet a claim of 2 x 2.25 hrs for travel and 7 hrs at the confrence. I have also stuck in claim for 266 miles @ 40p per mile.
So my question is on balance if you are away on company business shoulld the company pay for your travel time?? and extra travel expenses?
Thanks
Steve
Facts.
confrence is 140 mile away from my usual office.
Travel Time was around 2.5 hrs each way.
My usual commute is 15 minutes & 7 miles in length.
I have stuck in my time sheet a claim of 2 x 2.25 hrs for travel and 7 hrs at the confrence. I have also stuck in claim for 266 miles @ 40p per mile.
So my question is on balance if you are away on company business shoulld the company pay for your travel time?? and extra travel expenses?
Thanks
Steve
ipsg.glf said:
What reasons did the boss give for this being unreasonable?
I quote direct from email"People sometimes have to travel in their own time to attend client meetings as well as training and this is just part of the job and doesn't warrant coding time or claiming overtime."
But i have been to many other meeting and had no problem claimin g the time or travel expenses incurred, this one seems to be a bit of a pain in the ar5e
Edited by stevieb on Tuesday 16th October 13:37
I would say it depends on one main point...
What do your terms say?
My salesmen are expected to travel in their own time to any meeting/conference/event etc and only claim mileage at an agreed rate. Their terms state - 'hours as necessary'
Other members of staff (office based) would submit a claim for fuel/expenses (at the companies going rate) and I would offer time off in lieu - their terms state 9 - 5.30
Has a precedent already been set by either yourself or another member of staff?
What do your terms say?
My salesmen are expected to travel in their own time to any meeting/conference/event etc and only claim mileage at an agreed rate. Their terms state - 'hours as necessary'
Other members of staff (office based) would submit a claim for fuel/expenses (at the companies going rate) and I would offer time off in lieu - their terms state 9 - 5.30
Has a precedent already been set by either yourself or another member of staff?
If i either got paid for it of time off in lieu i would ba happy, but i am reading into this now and thinking they are trying to make a rpecedent for not paying travel time anymore. For certain members of staff who are on a particular grade or above they do not get paid for working aditional hours. where as i am just one grade below and get paid overtime etc.
I have been working for 2 years in my present job and have never had this problem, but now it seems to be a bit of a sticking point.
Others are concerned in the office that if they go to meetings direct from home they will not be able to claim the extra time spent on works business.
I need to dig my contract out to see what that says
I have been working for 2 years in my present job and have never had this problem, but now it seems to be a bit of a sticking point.
Others are concerned in the office that if they go to meetings direct from home they will not be able to claim the extra time spent on works business.
I need to dig my contract out to see what that says
I think I can guess what your contract will say 
I have a real issue about this as a hired gun. But thats another story. As a staff person it's a bit different because contracts normally say the usual guff, i.e. you may be required to work extra hours in the execution of your duties.
In other words, bend over - all of your time is ours.
I have a real issue about this as a hired gun. But thats another story. As a staff person it's a bit different because contracts normally say the usual guff, i.e. you may be required to work extra hours in the execution of your duties.
In other words, bend over - all of your time is ours.
Olf said:
mogul said:
Olf said:
In other words, bend over - all of your time is ours.
Hang on, no one makes you work at any given company.If you don't agree with the terms, don't accept the job
The rest has been edited and removed by me.....
Edited by mogul on Wednesday 17th October 06:47
Edited by mogul on Wednesday 17th October 07:03
stevieb said:
mogul said:
Olf said:
In other words, bend over - all of your time is ours.
Hang on, no one makes you work at any given company.If you don't agree with the terms, don't accept the job
A quiet word should not be a problem and it will at least let you know where you stand.
Personally I wouldn't bother with the travel time as long as it was only occasional.
As you say, when you get to a certain level, you do the hours necessary to get the job done as opposed to the hours in your contract.
If this was a regular thing then the company should put it into terms & conditions of employment that you're expected to travel and that this is part of company time.
There may also be an H&S issue around travelling 2.5 hours at each end and then doing a days work in between - although many people do this.
As you say, when you get to a certain level, you do the hours necessary to get the job done as opposed to the hours in your contract.
If this was a regular thing then the company should put it into terms & conditions of employment that you're expected to travel and that this is part of company time.
There may also be an H&S issue around travelling 2.5 hours at each end and then doing a days work in between - although many people do this.
Our rules are something like this:
We'll always pay for the costs incurred in travel.
We only pay for time (either TOIL or overtime) if the travel time is outside the reasonable limits of a working day. i.e. overnight, over the weekend or exceedingly unsociable hours.
So if I had to get up at 6AM to travel to a conference and got back home at say 10PM - no pay for travel.
If I have to travel to a conference say in the US leaving on a Saturday AM and go back Tuesday PM - I'd get the 2 days TOIL for the weekend.
We'll always pay for the costs incurred in travel.
We only pay for time (either TOIL or overtime) if the travel time is outside the reasonable limits of a working day. i.e. overnight, over the weekend or exceedingly unsociable hours.
So if I had to get up at 6AM to travel to a conference and got back home at say 10PM - no pay for travel.
If I have to travel to a conference say in the US leaving on a Saturday AM and go back Tuesday PM - I'd get the 2 days TOIL for the weekend.
condor said:
Perhaps they consider that 40p a mile petrol allowance includes a time allowance as well?
I can claim 26p petrol allowance a mile for meetings so think 40p a mile is generous.
40p per mile is the same rate as HMRC. They have done this to reduce the admin burden on staff completing either self assesments Or other HMRC forms every yearI can claim 26p petrol allowance a mile for meetings so think 40p a mile is generous.
It depends on the nature of the contract. If you're working as a defacto employee, as in a temp job through an agency then I would normally expect the company to pay for time and travel expenses for something that is a function of my job.
For something like a course or professional conference that doesn't in anyway benefit the company I wouldn't expect them to pay for this for a temp/contractor, even though they may for it for a permanent employee as they feel this adds to their human capital as a company.
If you're working as a sub contractor - say for example a contract servicing all BP petrol stations, and you normally work out of an office in London, but were required to go to a BP petrol station in Birmingham for some specific function of this job, then I wouldn't expect the company to pay.
Ultimately though it all comes down to the terms of your contract. For future reference I would be absolutely clear about this before you set off. I've had similar things to this and although it can seem a bit pushy, especially if you're just starting, it can avoid a lot of problems later on to be absolutely clear about where you stand before spending your own money.
If they are refusing to pay for something that clearly benefits them, then your strongest line of argument is going to be that you will not do this again out of your own pocket, and if that means the company loses out on sales, or is unable to fulfill it's obligations, then they'd better find a way to get you there that doesn't rely on you, effectively, subsidising them.
For something like a course or professional conference that doesn't in anyway benefit the company I wouldn't expect them to pay for this for a temp/contractor, even though they may for it for a permanent employee as they feel this adds to their human capital as a company.
If you're working as a sub contractor - say for example a contract servicing all BP petrol stations, and you normally work out of an office in London, but were required to go to a BP petrol station in Birmingham for some specific function of this job, then I wouldn't expect the company to pay.
Ultimately though it all comes down to the terms of your contract. For future reference I would be absolutely clear about this before you set off. I've had similar things to this and although it can seem a bit pushy, especially if you're just starting, it can avoid a lot of problems later on to be absolutely clear about where you stand before spending your own money.
If they are refusing to pay for something that clearly benefits them, then your strongest line of argument is going to be that you will not do this again out of your own pocket, and if that means the company loses out on sales, or is unable to fulfill it's obligations, then they'd better find a way to get you there that doesn't rely on you, effectively, subsidising them.
Maxf said:
condor said:
Perhaps they consider that 40p a mile petrol allowance includes a time allowance as well?
I can claim 26p petrol allowance a mile for meetings so think 40p a mile is generous.
Dont forget you can claim the tax on the difference between your rate and HMRC rate back!I can claim 26p petrol allowance a mile for meetings so think 40p a mile is generous.
Though since I probably only do about 600 business miles a year, would it be worth the hassle to fill in a self-assessment form (I'm assuming that's what I'd have to fill in to claim it)?
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