What makes a good budget track day car?
Discussion
I had my first taste of track driving for some time at Kenilworth last weekend along with some other PHers doing the SDBTT charity day. I enjoyed it a lot, but felt I'd have probably got atleast as much enjoyment from a bit more track time in my own car and a little less standing around!
I specifically wanted to put this question to people who have experience of running a dedicated track day car, rather than just posting in GG as I think I have a reasonable idea of the usual suspects and wanted to get a more 'hands on' response
The question is what car would make a good track day toy on a budget (say, absolute max £5k including any mods, preferably much less)? Obviously I'd like something fun and quick enough to keep you interested on a full length track, but beyond that it would also have to offer,
What are peoples views on what really makes a good budget track day car? Can you give me a few specific suggestions?
I specifically wanted to put this question to people who have experience of running a dedicated track day car, rather than just posting in GG as I think I have a reasonable idea of the usual suspects and wanted to get a more 'hands on' response
The question is what car would make a good track day toy on a budget (say, absolute max £5k including any mods, preferably much less)? Obviously I'd like something fun and quick enough to keep you interested on a full length track, but beyond that it would also have to offer,
- A reasonable degree of safety should I get it wrong
- Readily available and inexpensive parts
- Easy to work on (good tool access etc)
- Road legal
What are peoples views on what really makes a good budget track day car? Can you give me a few specific suggestions?
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 16th October 14:29
Off the top of my head, I would extend that list to,
A point a few people have made on other threads is that you could hire some very nice machinery at quite a few different track days for £3k a year and still get the full track time. Maybe renting is worth looking into?
- Mazda MX5 (not for me personally, been there, done that....)
- Porsche 944 (been there too, but this one I'd go back to!)
- e30 BMW 325 or 318iS (see above!)
- 200 SX
- Early Supra (just a guess....)
- Colt Starion
- Pug 205 GTi
- Erm, don't laugh, but Novas seem to be used a lot in club rallying and autotests, maybe these are a good candidate hot hatch wise?
- Sierra XR4 (cheapest RWD car I can think of just about)
- Wildcard FWD - Rover 216 GTi or even a k-series Metro GTi, massively underated little cars
- Mk1 MR2 - that said, I don't think the later cars are as bad as they're made out to be either
- Alfa 75 (the big-ish RWD saloon)
- Nissan Bluebird turbo
- 106 Rallye (these really are very good, much more oversteery than the £30k subaru WRX STi's from last weekend when you lift off)
- Citroen AX GT
A point a few people have made on other threads is that you could hire some very nice machinery at quite a few different track days for £3k a year and still get the full track time. Maybe renting is worth looking into?
Just thought of another one - FWD again - but I've always rather liked these.....
VW Scirocco. I know it's a golf in drag, but I reckon they have a bit more character than the hot hatches for an equally low price. I would feel a bit more like using on the road occasionally too than I would a stripped out hatch!
VW Scirocco. I know it's a golf in drag, but I reckon they have a bit more character than the hot hatches for an equally low price. I would feel a bit more like using on the road occasionally too than I would a stripped out hatch!
I'm not sure how to answer your question. You perhaps need to narrow things down a bit? I ran a track prepped 205 Mi16 for a while and it was a fantastic budget trackday car. However, even at ~800kg it was heavy enough to need a fair amount of consumables like tyres and brakes. A heavier car, like many on your list would be much worse. Do factor that in.
In terms of safety, I once asked a trackday organiser what he thought of the Pug and he said he was glad it had a decent cage in it as they were the only cars he'd ever seen roll it on a trackday! I now run a kit car as I wanted RWD and less weight and flying debris aside, I think it's still a safe enough place to be.
In terms of safety, I once asked a trackday organiser what he thought of the Pug and he said he was glad it had a decent cage in it as they were the only cars he'd ever seen roll it on a trackday! I now run a kit car as I wanted RWD and less weight and flying debris aside, I think it's still a safe enough place to be.
All depends what you are after, I've tracked a Golf for yrs & love them, cheap & easy to maintain & if done properly with the right bits don't need much maintenance other than at season end. Which is where many other rivals really fail as the maintenance just gets silly & they spend more time fixing them than tracking them.
For 16v = easy to achive nice power gains for little £ & can achive 180-200bhp/ton without too much sweat & if you can drive one properly punches way way above the weight of a modded shopping car
There is a Mk2 races series now too.
Many say the same about pug 205s just personally im not a fan.
For RWD-
E30 bmw similar to Golf in running costs- i.e dirt cheap for consumables like wheel bearings, ball joints etc etc are, only thing is e30s rust- a lot, so need to be careful, 325i is of a good pace & lovely noise & respectable grunt (ive got a track 325i e30 also) 318IS less power but well liked & handling is raved about. SeloC series for 318 & 320, but 318is & 325i can fit in other championships.series'
I've had a few 944s, not tracked 'em tho simply as not in Golf/e30 cheapness area, well a 2.5 lux is for some bits but certainly not for all, but S2 & Turbo are definatly not, but heck of a lot more pace than the above contenders is available in Turbo form but so are the running costs. Porker chamipionships for all to fit in as well as a 924 series.
Mx5 well rated if more then a bit underpowered as stock, parts are cheap, handle excellently when modified & quick on twisty tracks but ive no personal experience other than driving a mates briefly. Max5 race series.
200sx, usually see one blow up on most track days ive been to! Special Burger King race series- see your local town centre 
Only joshing a mate of mine raves about his, do go well when properly sorted, but big budget at that level.
For 16v = easy to achive nice power gains for little £ & can achive 180-200bhp/ton without too much sweat & if you can drive one properly punches way way above the weight of a modded shopping car
There is a Mk2 races series now too.
Many say the same about pug 205s just personally im not a fan.
For RWD-
E30 bmw similar to Golf in running costs- i.e dirt cheap for consumables like wheel bearings, ball joints etc etc are, only thing is e30s rust- a lot, so need to be careful, 325i is of a good pace & lovely noise & respectable grunt (ive got a track 325i e30 also) 318IS less power but well liked & handling is raved about. SeloC series for 318 & 320, but 318is & 325i can fit in other championships.series'
I've had a few 944s, not tracked 'em tho simply as not in Golf/e30 cheapness area, well a 2.5 lux is for some bits but certainly not for all, but S2 & Turbo are definatly not, but heck of a lot more pace than the above contenders is available in Turbo form but so are the running costs. Porker chamipionships for all to fit in as well as a 924 series.
Mx5 well rated if more then a bit underpowered as stock, parts are cheap, handle excellently when modified & quick on twisty tracks but ive no personal experience other than driving a mates briefly. Max5 race series.
200sx, usually see one blow up on most track days ive been to!
Special Burger King race series- see your local town centre Only joshing a mate of mine raves about his, do go well when properly sorted, but big budget at that level.Edited by iguana on Tuesday 16th October 20:02
All depends what you are after, I've tracked a Golf for yrs & love them, cheap & easy to maintain & if done properly with the right bits don't need much maintenance other than at season end. Which is where many other rivals really fail as the maintenace just gets silly & they spend more time fixing them than tracking them.
For 16v easy to achive nice power gains for little £ & can achive 180-200bhp/ton without too much sweat & if you can drive one properly punches way way above the weight of a modded shopping car!
There is a Mk2 races series now too.
Many say the same about pug 205s just personally im not a fan.
So thats the gay wheel drive options done.
For RWD-
E30 bmw similar to Golf in running costs- i.e dirt cheap for consumables like wheel bearings, ball joints etc etc are, only thing is e30s rust- a lot, so need to be careful, 325i is of a good pace & lovely noise & respectable grunt (ive got a track 325i e30 also) 318IS less power but well liked & handling is raved about. SeloC series for 318 & 320, but 318is & 325i can fit in other championships.series'
Ive had a few 944s, not tracked 'em tho simply as not in Golf/e30 cheapness area, well a 2.5 lux is for some bits but certainly not for all, but S2 & Turbo are definatly not, but heck of a lot more pace than the above contenders is available in Turbo form but so are the running costs. Porker chamipionships for all to fit in as well as a 924 series.
Mx5 well rated if more then a bit underpowered as stock, parts are cheap, handle excellently when modified & quick on twisty tracks but ive no personal experience other than driving a mates briefly. Max5 race series.
200sx, usually see one blow up on most track days ive been to! Special Burger King race series- see your local town centre Only joshing, with other than the blow up bit- seen quite a few, a mate of mine raves about his, do go well when properly sorted, but big budget at that level.
For 16v easy to achive nice power gains for little £ & can achive 180-200bhp/ton without too much sweat & if you can drive one properly punches way way above the weight of a modded shopping car!
There is a Mk2 races series now too.
Many say the same about pug 205s just personally im not a fan.
So thats the gay wheel drive options done.
For RWD-
E30 bmw similar to Golf in running costs- i.e dirt cheap for consumables like wheel bearings, ball joints etc etc are, only thing is e30s rust- a lot, so need to be careful, 325i is of a good pace & lovely noise & respectable grunt (ive got a track 325i e30 also) 318IS less power but well liked & handling is raved about. SeloC series for 318 & 320, but 318is & 325i can fit in other championships.series'
Ive had a few 944s, not tracked 'em tho simply as not in Golf/e30 cheapness area, well a 2.5 lux is for some bits but certainly not for all, but S2 & Turbo are definatly not, but heck of a lot more pace than the above contenders is available in Turbo form but so are the running costs. Porker chamipionships for all to fit in as well as a 924 series.
Mx5 well rated if more then a bit underpowered as stock, parts are cheap, handle excellently when modified & quick on twisty tracks but ive no personal experience other than driving a mates briefly. Max5 race series.
200sx, usually see one blow up on most track days ive been to!
Special Burger King race series- see your local town centre Only joshing, with other than the blow up bit- seen quite a few, a mate of mine raves about his, do go well when properly sorted, but big budget at that level.Edited by iguana on Wednesday 17th October 00:55
Triumph TR7V8
you may scoff but with knowledge and diy mechanics 5k will get you a very fast track day car, mine beats gti's, caterfields, porsche, nissan 200's, subaru.
i am not bragging honest but check the link below for utube, there are three others to watch.
bags of fun to be had.
by the way i have spent nearer 10k, got a bit carried away, but i was inexperienced at first and spent more money than i should, thats why i mentioned knowledge.
i bought a complete new axle for £600 when all i needed was 2 £50 bearings bugger, but it is all part of learning.
very easy to work on parts easy to find.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ybhc9sYJQ
you may scoff but with knowledge and diy mechanics 5k will get you a very fast track day car, mine beats gti's, caterfields, porsche, nissan 200's, subaru.
i am not bragging honest but check the link below for utube, there are three others to watch.
bags of fun to be had.
by the way i have spent nearer 10k, got a bit carried away, but i was inexperienced at first and spent more money than i should, thats why i mentioned knowledge.
i bought a complete new axle for £600 when all i needed was 2 £50 bearings bugger, but it is all part of learning.
very easy to work on parts easy to find.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ybhc9sYJQ
bin looney said:
Triumph TR7V8
you may scoff but with knowledge and diy mechanics 5k will get you a very fast track day car, mine beats gti's, caterfields, porsche, nissan 200's, subaru.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ybhc9sYJQ
Wasn't yours in CCC or something similar a while back? I'm sure I've got a copy with a TR7 V8 in those colours.you may scoff but with knowledge and diy mechanics 5k will get you a very fast track day car, mine beats gti's, caterfields, porsche, nissan 200's, subaru.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ybhc9sYJQ
As a few people have said, I need to decide what I want..... That's really why I'm on here. To be honest I scoffed at the idea of FWD until I spent a while driving those subarus the other day and concluded that, accomplished as they were, the major part of the fun was taking *a* car to it's limits round a track. And I wasn't sure it would be that much less fun if I was in something a lot less sophisticated than a £25k WRX STi. Maybe something like a 205 GTi or Golf would be as much fun as a RWD sportscar, or atleast very nearly as much fun for a great deal less. If I knew I specifically wanted a small FWD hatch I'd be out looking at 106 Rallye's etc
And whilst I have a vague idea what would be fun, what would be cheap, safe and relatively reliable also is a different matter.If nothing else I have this sat in my garage already,
But I'm not entirely sure I want to end up heading towards a tire wall at any speed in it. It also has a 1970s Fiat twin cam in, which is a glorious engine, but not the easiest or cheapest to come by parts for.
In the past I've had Pug 205, Porsche 944 (well '24S) and BMW e30 road cars and I'd be happy to see any of them back.
I think my plan splits into 3 options,
1) Bangeronomics - spend a disposable ammount of money on a disposable car. Something like a Golf, 205, 309 GTi or maybe even a Sierra or similar. Could later be used for club rallies, autotests etc.
2) Spend a bit more money on a long term car, I would prefer this to be RWD and have a reasonable ammount of poke. The other two options would hopefully be fairly hands off, but this would be more of a project car perhaps too. Could later be used for low cost circuit racing.
3) Hire. I know this sounds a bit 'amateur' but you could get a lot of hired drives in a season for £3k and when it blows up it's someone elses problem. There again, you also loose the fun of owning/building the car and all the money you put into it.
Ok, maybe I haven't exactly made that clearer
my opinion of subaru and evo's has changed since i have done track days, i though they would be awesome, but the four wheel drive makes them understeer. wrecks tyres and need 500bhp to be quick, for 20k+ i think there a real let down, my opinion of course.
cars i have seen on track days are,
bike engined caterfields but you need to be a good driver as they are light and twitchy but to get a seriously quick motor you still need a lot of money.
radicals and race porsches if you have loads of brass.
ferraris usually driven by a guy who thinks he has the fastest car in the world but gets overtaken 100 times by 2k dax kitcars.
only gti i have seen that was quick was one with nitro rest were okay.
pug 205 seen a few like them a lot bags of parts.
mr2 slow.
mx5 slow.
lotus elise lot of money again not sure, better with a westfield.
nissan 200sx heavy car need 500bhp to make em shift.
bmw m3 sound great go well.
TVR sorry but i think they are poor i had one handling was terrible.
rover sd1 well never seen a track car but i would love to V8 one of course.
noble like most supercars too expensive to real push cos cannot to crash.
honda civis are a good front wheel drive car or a astra GTE.
i started out going to oulton park with the car i had at the time a lexus is300 sportscross thinking it was the fastest car on the planet, when i realized it was the slowest and my brakes were completely knackered after 6 laps i sold it to fund a track day car, i wanted rwd and a V8 so i bought a TR7V8 and a TVR 350I sold the TVR cos it just could not handle even with new suspension, TR7 is now my baby and i love working on it and driving it is ace.
hope i have not bored you!!!
cars i have seen on track days are,
bike engined caterfields but you need to be a good driver as they are light and twitchy but to get a seriously quick motor you still need a lot of money.
radicals and race porsches if you have loads of brass.
ferraris usually driven by a guy who thinks he has the fastest car in the world but gets overtaken 100 times by 2k dax kitcars.
only gti i have seen that was quick was one with nitro rest were okay.
pug 205 seen a few like them a lot bags of parts.
mr2 slow.
mx5 slow.
lotus elise lot of money again not sure, better with a westfield.
nissan 200sx heavy car need 500bhp to make em shift.
bmw m3 sound great go well.
TVR sorry but i think they are poor i had one handling was terrible.
rover sd1 well never seen a track car but i would love to V8 one of course.
noble like most supercars too expensive to real push cos cannot to crash.
honda civis are a good front wheel drive car or a astra GTE.
i started out going to oulton park with the car i had at the time a lexus is300 sportscross thinking it was the fastest car on the planet, when i realized it was the slowest and my brakes were completely knackered after 6 laps i sold it to fund a track day car, i wanted rwd and a V8 so i bought a TR7V8 and a TVR 350I sold the TVR cos it just could not handle even with new suspension, TR7 is now my baby and i love working on it and driving it is ace.
hope i have not bored you!!!
I was in your dilema 6 months ago.
I bought a BMW E30 325. RWD and cheap for parts (and if you bend it!), can do most of it yourself. Try and get one with lots of the basic work done - mine had a cage, stripped, poly bushes, braided hoses etc and i got if for loads less than the work that had been done - it looks like a shed but goes like stink and it is light - weight is everything for track days.
If you buy a basic car yourself and start doing the work (stripping and preparing) it takes loads of time and lots more money than buying someone else hard labour! (just speak to anyone who has lost weekends and eves stripping sounddeadening etc with a heat gun) Roll cages too are frighteningly expensive.
i also wanted to drive too and from the circuits in reasonable comfort - so a caterfield etc was out for me as i didn't want to spend most of the day picking dead flies out of my teeth or freezing to death - i'm too much of a girl.
I wanted an E36 M3, but once i priced up the work it was horrifying (quite a heavy car too)
the other thing is i am a cr*p driver and a fast car would flatter me but i would not learn how to be a fast driver. better to buy something cheap/slower and learn to drive it fast (instruction/practice) then graduate on to something quicker. you would be amazed at some of the sheds that can keep up with the expensive/quick cars on track days!
whatever you go for - make sure you get something you like personally (e.g. no good going for Honda just because someone told you they make good track cars if you never really liked them!)
have fun - i wish i had never bought mine - i am totally hooked and i can see this being an expensive hobby in the end!
I bought a BMW E30 325. RWD and cheap for parts (and if you bend it!), can do most of it yourself. Try and get one with lots of the basic work done - mine had a cage, stripped, poly bushes, braided hoses etc and i got if for loads less than the work that had been done - it looks like a shed but goes like stink and it is light - weight is everything for track days.
If you buy a basic car yourself and start doing the work (stripping and preparing) it takes loads of time and lots more money than buying someone else hard labour! (just speak to anyone who has lost weekends and eves stripping sounddeadening etc with a heat gun) Roll cages too are frighteningly expensive.
i also wanted to drive too and from the circuits in reasonable comfort - so a caterfield etc was out for me as i didn't want to spend most of the day picking dead flies out of my teeth or freezing to death - i'm too much of a girl.
I wanted an E36 M3, but once i priced up the work it was horrifying (quite a heavy car too)
the other thing is i am a cr*p driver and a fast car would flatter me but i would not learn how to be a fast driver. better to buy something cheap/slower and learn to drive it fast (instruction/practice) then graduate on to something quicker. you would be amazed at some of the sheds that can keep up with the expensive/quick cars on track days!
whatever you go for - make sure you get something you like personally (e.g. no good going for Honda just because someone told you they make good track cars if you never really liked them!)
have fun - i wish i had never bought mine - i am totally hooked and i can see this being an expensive hobby in the end!
Just been flickign through the PH track day classifieds. A few of the highlights from the lower end of the price range....
If this really is in VGC, it's top bangeronomics,
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/264572.htm
I'm sure it would rust to pieces before I got there, but this is quite cute!
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/261520.htm
One of the usual suspects,
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/251379.htm
And another,
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/211566.htm
Expensive to run, but rather cool,
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/228510.htm
In an ideal world I'd get something RWD in a traditional sportscar mode, but these hot hatches would all fit into club rallying or autotest formulae as well as possibly things like Stock Hatch. They might not be the fastest thing going, but to be honest even the 'formentioned Scooby didn't feel massively fast in a straight line - I'm not really after setting times, just having a bit of a laugh.
The whole thing was spawned by the fact I was offered a track day recently at a very good price and realised my kit car is a work in progress and my daily driver wouldn't last 5 minutes before clutch, driveshafts and brake linings had all headed south. It would be good to have a fun car which can be used regularly and without breaking the bank. A track day one weekend, an autotest the next, maybe a table top rally the following weekend.....
If this really is in VGC, it's top bangeronomics,
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/264572.htm
I'm sure it would rust to pieces before I got there, but this is quite cute!
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/261520.htm
One of the usual suspects,
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/251379.htm
And another,
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/211566.htm
Expensive to run, but rather cool,
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/228510.htm
In an ideal world I'd get something RWD in a traditional sportscar mode, but these hot hatches would all fit into club rallying or autotest formulae as well as possibly things like Stock Hatch. They might not be the fastest thing going, but to be honest even the 'formentioned Scooby didn't feel massively fast in a straight line - I'm not really after setting times, just having a bit of a laugh.
The whole thing was spawned by the fact I was offered a track day recently at a very good price and realised my kit car is a work in progress and my daily driver wouldn't last 5 minutes before clutch, driveshafts and brake linings had all headed south. It would be good to have a fun car which can be used regularly and without breaking the bank. A track day one weekend, an autotest the next, maybe a table top rally the following weekend.....
This is so nice:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/262009.htm
Ignis sports, about 900kg not rear drive but some cheap fairly new low mileage ones around still with warranty. Just rip the back seats out, fit a cage, fit coilovers, remap and you have a reliable fun track car.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/262009.htm
Ignis sports, about 900kg not rear drive but some cheap fairly new low mileage ones around still with warranty. Just rip the back seats out, fit a cage, fit coilovers, remap and you have a reliable fun track car.
Hi guys,
Usually spend time in the Chim forum but thought i'd throw my 2pence into this!
Was mentioned further up, but if you can ignore the fact its not RWD
then a Nova can be a pretty good weapon. We have a (dedicated) trackday car and for the money you can't really beat it. The 2.0 16V redtop practically fits straight in (as does a 2L turbo without TOO much trouble...) and stripped out with a cage its only tipping something like 600KGs at the scales. A bit of camwork and some TB's and you can reliably see well over 200BHP per ton.
Brakes come courtesy of a cavvy V6 and if you fancy being adventurous with gearboxes the lower ratio ones will see some unbelievable 0-60 times. Theres also plenty of suspension mods available thanks to the MP boys - the OP's budget of 5K would get an absolute belter!
HTH
Mark
Usually spend time in the Chim forum but thought i'd throw my 2pence into this!
Was mentioned further up, but if you can ignore the fact its not RWD
then a Nova can be a pretty good weapon. We have a (dedicated) trackday car and for the money you can't really beat it. The 2.0 16V redtop practically fits straight in (as does a 2L turbo without TOO much trouble...) and stripped out with a cage its only tipping something like 600KGs at the scales. A bit of camwork and some TB's and you can reliably see well over 200BHP per ton.Brakes come courtesy of a cavvy V6 and if you fancy being adventurous with gearboxes the lower ratio ones will see some unbelievable 0-60 times. Theres also plenty of suspension mods available thanks to the MP boys - the OP's budget of 5K would get an absolute belter!
HTH
Mark
Well, to be honest if I was going to spend the top end of the (completely arbitrarly choosen) budget I think I'd be looking at something RWD like a 944 or 3 series. It's just personal preference. If I got a FWD hatch I'd spend a grand or two on it as a more or less disposable fun car. If I was going to spend more serious money on it, I'd be looking for something I could get into as more of a long term hobby/project car and whilst hot hatches are awesome (and potentially rapid) bits of kit, my personal preference is for sports cars and coupes.
So, can anyone think of any RWD cars at the lower end of the budget (say, sub £2k!)? All that really springs to mind barring the odd self destructing 200SX is a rather rusty e30 or maybe a Sierra.
I hope the first bit makes sense - if I'm going to spend throwaway money, I'm not really too worried what it is, just that it drives reasonably well and get's me some track time. If I was to start spending a more serious ammount, I'd want something that I enjoyed just having in the garage as a car if that makes sense and in that respect I'm drawn to a spot of retro RWD.
So, can anyone think of any RWD cars at the lower end of the budget (say, sub £2k!)? All that really springs to mind barring the odd self destructing 200SX is a rather rusty e30 or maybe a Sierra.
I hope the first bit makes sense - if I'm going to spend throwaway money, I'm not really too worried what it is, just that it drives reasonably well and get's me some track time. If I was to start spending a more serious ammount, I'd want something that I enjoyed just having in the garage as a car if that makes sense and in that respect I'm drawn to a spot of retro RWD.
sparky11 said:
In that case, I recommend.......
You have got to be joking!Don't get me wrong - I like mk1 & 2 escorts, but they go for something ridiculous like £10k these days ....for a fairly basic spec. Fast ford wise, a Siera or maybe even a Capri would make a usable track banger?
Going slightly further up the price range, I suppose an e36 wouldn't actually be a bad idea, probably cheaper than a 944 and somewhat less rusty (price for price!)
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