Land Registry incorrect (or correct)!!!

[tjdixon911]

Not sure if this is the correct forum to be posting this in but....

We are currently in the process of moving house, we have just received the documentation from our sellers Solicitor showing the boundries, fixtures and fittings etc.... the problem being the Land Registry cuts the Garden in half diagonally to what we were expecting (having seen the physical boundries!)

Obviously this has been raised with the solicitor, I am being reassured that it shouldn't cause a problem but obviously it needs to be sorted before we can proceed further, has anyone else had similar problems and if so what sort of time scale can I expect this to be resolved?

Thanks

Tom

[Piglet]

I'm a property lawyer and I'd be worried!!

What sort of property is it? New build or existing? and most importantly what about the bit of garden that you were expecting to be yours - who's title does that now fall into?

The last thing you want to do is buy a property with a built in boundary dispute! It may though just be an admin error somewhere

[tjdixon911]

Piglet said:

I'm a property lawyer and I'd be worried!!

What sort of property is it? New build or existing? and most importantly what about the bit of garden that you were expecting to be yours - who's title does that now fall into?

The last thing you want to do is buy a property with a built in boundary dispute! It may though just be an admin error somewhere

Thanks Piglet.

It is a 1930's property, I don't know how to find out who's land that is, there is no access to the land appart from a footpath that leads along the back or through the gardens of 3 other properties that back onto the side of the property we're buying... The garden is established so the physical boundries have been there for some time....

I have been told that the council issued a plan (98 ish) when they were planning on installing speed bumps in the area which show the boundry being as it is now, I'm not sure if this would over ride a land registry plan dated 89 or not...

Thanks

Tom

[pcowen]

We had a similar problem, with our land. When we came to change our mortgage, the land registry said part of our house was built outside the plot. The builder had used the physical boundries to the field where he built 2 houses, but the side of ours was outside the boundries the land registry had for the plot. So the physical boudries don'y mean a thing. They came and re measured and still came up with the same answer. We used our new solicitor to sue the one we had used for buying the house as they should have found this out. The solution for us is, the land part of our house is on has no posession on it so you can register it for 12 years, with an insurance so that know one can come along and claim it. After 12 years you can change it to Absolute Posession. We got the old solicotor to pay for the fees and the insurance and the extra we had to pay in mortgage payments while this all happened.

Hope you get it sorted.

[Piglet]

Hi Tom, you need to talk to your solicitor, they will probably have already done an index map search to work out whether the remainder land is registered to anyone or whether it has just been left out.

I can't work out from your post where the land is, is it the front garden or the back garden? If it's the back garden and because of the fencing it is very clearly the garden of the house you are buying and nobody else could be using it then your situation should be pretty straightforward and the existing owner should be asking the Land Registry to rectify the title to the house. Assuming that a previous vendor hasn't flogged it off as part of a infil building scheme!!

If it's the front garden (your reference to speed bumps points me here) then again, if it is clearly enclosed and yours and not used by anyone else(as most 1930's frontages are) then it should again be a matter of rectifying the title assuming there is absolutely no indication that the Local Authority perhaps bought or even CPO'd part of the land as part of road improvements.

If the frontage is open and there might be a debate about whether someone else has used it over the last few years then I would be concerned about whether rights have been gained over it.

Your solicitor needs to investigate the title thoroughly - make sure this is happening, if you are using a volume conveyancer, make doubly sure this is happening.

This is (IMO) something that the vendor needs to fix ahead of any sale or to at worst sell with the benefit of title indemnity insurance but your mortgage lender may have an issue with this anyway.

It's difficult to give much decent advice without seeing the title and working out what has happened.

[tjdixon911]

pcowen said:

We had a similar problem, with our land. When we came to change our mortgage, the land registry said part of our house was built outside the plot. The builder had used the physical boundries to the field where he built 2 houses, but the side of ours was outside the boundries the land registry had for the plot. So the physical boudries don'y mean a thing. They came and re measured and still came up with the same answer. We used our new solicitor to sue the one we had used for buying the house as they should have found this out. The solution for us is, the land part of our house is on has no posession on it so you can register it for 12 years, with an insurance so that know one can come along and claim it. After 12 years you can change it to Absolute Posession. We got the old solicotor to pay for the fees and the insurance and the extra we had to pay in mortgage payments while this all happened.

Hope you get it sorted.

Thanks, the current owners have been there 17years (with the boundries as they are now), does this mean that they can claim absolute possession before we exchange etc... Assuming this has not already been done and the Land Registry isn't up to date!

[tjdixon911]

Piglet said:

Hi Tom, you need to talk to your solicitor, they will probably have already done an index map search to work out whether the remainder land is registered to anyone or whether it has just been left out.

I can't work out from your post where the land is, is it the front garden or the back garden? If it's the back garden and because of the fencing it is very clearly the garden of the house you are buying and nobody else could be using it then your situation should be pretty straightforward and the existing owner should be asking the Land Registry to rectify the title to the house. Assuming that a previous vendor hasn't flogged it off as part of a infil building scheme!!

If it's the front garden (your reference to speed bumps points me here) then again, if it is clearly enclosed and yours and not used by anyone else(as most 1930's frontages are) then it should again be a matter of rectifying the title assuming there is absolutely no indication that the Local Authority perhaps bought or even CPO'd part of the land as part of road improvements.

If the frontage is open and there might be a debate about whether someone else has used it over the last few years then I would be concerned about whether rights have been gained over it.

Your solicitor needs to investigate the title thoroughly - make sure this is happening, if you are using a volume conveyancer, make doubly sure this is happening.

This is (IMO) something that the vendor needs to fix ahead of any sale or to at worst sell with the benefit of title indemnity insurance but your mortgage lender may have an issue with this anyway.

It's difficult to give much decent advice without seeing the title and working out what has happened.

Thanks again Piglet, thats very useful, the area is to the rear of the property, the land registry cuts what is the current Physical Boundry in half Diagonally, there is no access in way of gates to the land in question (from the foot path or the other gardens) the only access is through the car port by the property (within the LR boundries) or over the fence along the side/back!! The area in question isn't big enough to be a building plot!

I will double check with my Solicitor that they have checked the ownership of the land in question....

Thanks again


Tom

[Piglet]

Hi Tom, it does sound like an error then that the Land Registry should rectify. It may take a little time though.

Don't forget to factor in that this is costing you money in legal fees to resolve so you may want to discuss the price with the Seller. It's their title that is defective and they really should have noticed prior to this and certainly prior to it being put up for sale.

Cheers

[pcowen]

tjdixon911 said:

pcowen said:

We had a similar problem, with our land. When we came to change our mortgage, the land registry said part of our house was built outside the plot. The builder had used the physical boundries to the field where he built 2 houses, but the side of ours was outside the boundries the land registry had for the plot. So the physical boudries don'y mean a thing. They came and re measured and still came up with the same answer. We used our new solicitor to sue the one we had used for buying the house as they should have found this out. The solution for us is, the land part of our house is on has no posession on it so you can register it for 12 years, with an insurance so that know one can come along and claim it. After 12 years you can change it to Absolute Posession. We got the old solicotor to pay for the fees and the insurance and the extra we had to pay in mortgage payments while this all happened.

Hope you get it sorted.

Thanks, the current owners have been there 17years (with the boundries as they are now), does this mean that they can claim absolute possession before we exchange etc... Assuming this has not already been done and the Land Registry isn't up to date!

You have to register the land as posessory title and you can only do this if nobody else has a title on it, and it's from that date that the 12 years start, but your solicitor will be more up on this.

[Piglet]

I wouldn't worry about someone own gaining ownership of the bit of land, no-one else is "in occupation" of the piece of land and the owners of the property you are looking at have been in occupation of it so it's not really an issue.

[tjdixon911]

Piglet said:

I wouldn't worry about someone own gaining ownership of the bit of land, no-one else is "in occupation" of the piece of land and the owners of the property you are looking at have been in occupation of it so it's not really an issue.

Thanks again..

I spoke to the Estate Agent yesterday afternoon who is relaying info from the sellers solicitor and they said they are now on the case with the Land Registry and it should be resolved fairly quickly!