SP50A

[JaymzDead]

Got stopped on the M4 near Swindon on Wednesday, a woman in a people carrier was tailgating me and we both got stopped, the copper had no kind of speed measuring equipment but said that he was basing the ticket on the time it took for us to travel between two bridges, is that admissable evidence?

Also the ticket says the offence code is SP50A, anyone know the definition for this?

[Bing o]

JaymzDead said:

Got stopped on the M4 near Swindon on Wednesday, a woman in a people carrier was tailgating me and we both got stopped, the copper had no kind of speed measuring equipment but said that he was basing the ticket on the time it took for us to travel between two bridges, is that admissable evidence?

Also the ticket says the offence code is SP50A, anyone know the definition for this?

Exceeding the limit on a motorway

[CommanderJameson]

For reference, here's a handy page

[SS2.]

JaymzDead said:

..he was basing the ticket on the time it took for us to travel between two bridges, is that admissable evidence?

Yes. His vehicle was probably VASCAR equipped.

JaymzDead said:

Also the ticket says the offence code is SP50A, anyone know the definition for this?

SP50 - exceeding the speed limit on a motorway.

[andmole]

Without incriminating yourself, do you think the accusation of exceeding the motorway speed limit is justified? Be careful how you reply however, because you never know who might be reading this.

[AJS-]

SP50 is normal speeding on motorway. No idea about the A as I've never heard of it.

I believe the say so of an experienced policeman is, sadly, enough to actually get a speeding conviction but this sounds very dodgy. Surely he would at least have had a calibrated speedo and or stop watch? Probably Vascar, but that is definitely speed measuring equipment.

I'd at the very least ask for the numbers and make sure they tally up, because I believe they often hand out these NIPs relying on you simply paying up for want of an easy life. Make life difficult for the buggers as far as you can without making it worse for yourself.

[CommanderJameson]

AJS- said:

SP50 is normal speeding on motorway. No idea about the A as I've never heard of it.

I believe the say so of an experienced policeman is, sadly, enough to actually get a speeding conviction but this sounds very dodgy. Surely he would at least have had a calibrated speedo and or stop watch? Probably Vascar, but that is definitely speed measuring equipment.

I'd at the very least ask for the numbers and make sure they tally up, because I believe they often hand out these NIPs relying on you simply paying up for want of an easy life. Make life difficult for the buggers as far as you can without making it worse for yourself.

The PH BiB will correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I believe to be the truth:

• If two officers are present, their opinion of excess speed alone (one corroborates the other) is enough evidence - no speedo or VASCAR required
• If one officer is present and his speedometer or other speed measuring equipment is calibrated, his opinion of excess speed is sufficient

[SS2.]

CommanderJameson said:

The PH BiB will correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I believe to be the truth:

• If two officers are present, their opinion of excess speed alone (one corroborates the other) is enough evidence - no speedo or VASCAR required
• If one officer is present and his speedometer or other speed measuring equipment is calibrated, his opinion of excess speed is sufficient

The PH BiB will also correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that the usual RTRA 1984 corroboration requirements (ie 'a person shall not be convicted solely on the evidence of one witness...') apply to motorway speeding offences.

[JaymzDead]

Thanks for the link, Commander.

He told us that the VASCAR was not switched on and that he was judging our speed on the time taken to travel between 2 bridges.

TBH I think I'll probably just take my oil on this one and take the points as I did have a clean licence up 'til now, I was just interested to see whether this was admissable in court really. Last time (a long time ago) I went to court for an SP30 (my licence was at the DVLA for a change of address), I got 4 points and £182.00 fine, because it went to court!! Don't want to go through that again!

[FiveStar]

CommanderJameson said:

The PH BiB will correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I believe to be the truth:

• If two officers are present, their opinion of excess speed alone (one corroborates the other) is enough evidence - no speedo or VASCAR required
• If one officer is present and his speedometer or other speed measuring equipment is calibrated, his opinion of excess speed is sufficient

yes correct. To legally do you he either needs the opinion of another policeman or speeding measurement equipment! He cant prosecute if its only his opinion!
were either present?

Edited by FiveStar on Friday 19th October 11:19

[SS2.]

FiveStar said:

To legally do you he either needs the opinion of another policeman or speeding measurement equipment! He cant prosecute if its only his opinion!
were either present?

On a motorway ? Are you sure ?

[AJS-]

FiveStar said:

To legally do you he either needs the opinion of another policeman or speeding measurement equipment! He cant prosecute if its only his opinion!
were either present?

How far does this go though? Taking it to an extreme, say he actually followed you for an hour according to his watch and you covered 100 miles according to the road signs, could he still not do you?

And does he need an exact figure to say what is excess speed?

[FiveStar]

SS2. said:

FiveStar said:

To legally do you he either needs the opinion of another policeman or speeding measurement equipment! He cant prosecute if its only his opinion!
were either present?

On a motorway ? Are you sure ?

No. I was not aware there was any differences when it comes to motorways. anyone know for sure?

[JustinP1]

JaymzDead said:

...He told us that the VASCAR was not switched on and that he was judging our speed on the time taken to travel between 2 bridges.

If you go to court with a solicitor he will get laughed out of court with that evidence.

Even IF VASCAR is turned on the readings are flawed as the operator needs to decide the timings of when the car in front passed the two markers - and this is often shown in court.

So, RoboCop here as will as having an inbuilt stopwatch he has an accurate way of measuring the distance too, and a calculator to work out average speed...

....he is multitasking too as he can do this for not one, but TWO cars at the same time!


Give this guy a medal! Seriously though, is this an effect of trying to reach targets?

If you fight this there is a very good chance that it wont go to court as when the CPS look at the papers of what evidence exists they will drop the case.

[SS2.]

FiveStar said:

SS2. said:

FiveStar said:

To legally do you he either needs the opinion of another policeman or speeding measurement equipment! He cant prosecute if its only his opinion!
were either present?

On a motorway ? Are you sure ?

No. I was not aware there was any differences when it comes to motorways. anyone know for sure?

The corroborative requirements for evidential purposes are provided by Section 89(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. As it stands, these do not apply to motorway speeding offences as Section 17(2) RTRA 1984 (which refers to 'special roads') is specifically excluded from these requirements..

[jwo]

I owuld fight this one without doubt. You are alledged to have exceeded the speed limit, but there is no actual evidence.

[SS2.]

jwo said:

I owuld fight this one without doubt. You are alledged to have exceeded the speed limit, but there is no actual evidence.

Are you saying that, in court, the sworn statement of a serving police officer would not be regarded as 'evidence' ?

[AJS-]

SS2. said:

Are you saying that, in court, the sworn statement of a serving police officer would not be regarded as 'evidence' ?

...Even if he's talking complete twaddle.

[somouk]

You can only be preosecuted if he has sufficent evidence to prove you were doing over the speed limit.

His testimony alone WILL NOT be enough to prosecute you. I would certainly get a legal professional to look into it before handing over your license.

Regards
Mart

[CommanderJameson]

somouk said:

You can only be preosecuted if he has sufficent evidence to prove you were doing over the speed limit.

His testimony alone WILL NOT be enough to prosecute you.

It will if his speedo was calibrated, which it almost certainly was.