Time for a few more Horses in the RA
Discussion
Right Guys it's time for more power in the ra. I'm not having it that dad's scooby is more powerful than mine!
So far the mods overall are:
Engine:
Full decat consisting of what looks like a 3" bore down pipe but a 2.5" bore centre and back box. centre section is non resonated and the backbox is a Hayward and Scott Jap style angle exit,
Blitz Induction kit with engine heat shield,
Hayward and Scott equal length headers - wrapped,
Intercooler deflector,
My02 WRX intercooler to go in,
new ngk pf7b plugs to go in.
Rest of the car:
330mm Big 4 pot brake setup with braided lines to slow it down,
Front and rear upper strut braces,
Lower rear strut brace to go on,
oil temp & pressure plus boost gauges to go in,
harnesses to go in,
soon to be stripped out and possibly a cage fitted - not sure yet.
I want to get the car up to around the 300bhp mark. I had pretty much the above mods on my old wrx and it gave 250 / 240 on a dyno dynamics rolling road. I'm guessing that i have similar power in the ra.
So what route should i look at taking? I've got at most £1500 to spend and was thinking along the lines of uprated fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, either a piggy back ecu or apexi power fc. possibly sell off the centre section and rear box and get a 3" system together with uprated up pipe. or do i keep the exhaust system i have and look at other options, ie, better ecu or bigger injectors, change the turbo?
But most importantly for the biggest gains i will be investing in driver training as imo there's no point giving the car the potential to be quick if i can't drive it quickly!
Your thoughts.
Cheers,
Matt.
So far the mods overall are:
Engine:
Full decat consisting of what looks like a 3" bore down pipe but a 2.5" bore centre and back box. centre section is non resonated and the backbox is a Hayward and Scott Jap style angle exit,
Blitz Induction kit with engine heat shield,
Hayward and Scott equal length headers - wrapped,
Intercooler deflector,
My02 WRX intercooler to go in,
new ngk pf7b plugs to go in.
Rest of the car:
330mm Big 4 pot brake setup with braided lines to slow it down,
Front and rear upper strut braces,
Lower rear strut brace to go on,
oil temp & pressure plus boost gauges to go in,
harnesses to go in,
soon to be stripped out and possibly a cage fitted - not sure yet.
I want to get the car up to around the 300bhp mark. I had pretty much the above mods on my old wrx and it gave 250 / 240 on a dyno dynamics rolling road. I'm guessing that i have similar power in the ra.
So what route should i look at taking? I've got at most £1500 to spend and was thinking along the lines of uprated fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, either a piggy back ecu or apexi power fc. possibly sell off the centre section and rear box and get a 3" system together with uprated up pipe. or do i keep the exhaust system i have and look at other options, ie, better ecu or bigger injectors, change the turbo?
But most importantly for the biggest gains i will be investing in driver training as imo there's no point giving the car the potential to be quick if i can't drive it quickly!
Your thoughts.
Cheers,
Matt.
Great attitude to the mods, you will gain more by being able to drive the thing than by getting a shed load of power from it!
However with your budget I would suggest looking at a SIMTEC ECU from Steve Simpson Motorsport which will come in at around a grand mapped.
We use these on all of the cars that we build (although we are in no way associated with their business, just use good quality products!) and I have been really impressed with the results and the quality of their service.
There are two positives here, 1 - you will maximise the benefits of the mods that have already been made, 2 - you are ready to make other hardware changes in the future and have the ability to get the most out of the future changes.
Leaves you with plenty of change (£500) to do some more work, personally I would look at front mounted intercooler if you are planning on sustained hard use (ie trackdays etc), we have got great results using Evo 6 FM intercoolers on the Murtaya.
I am sure you have already covered off two basics, but well worth revisitng decent tyres and a laser alignment session.
You will get a huge number of different opinions on here as everyone has their own view on what to do when, I hope this may prove to be at least some help.
Neil.
However with your budget I would suggest looking at a SIMTEC ECU from Steve Simpson Motorsport which will come in at around a grand mapped.
We use these on all of the cars that we build (although we are in no way associated with their business, just use good quality products!) and I have been really impressed with the results and the quality of their service.
There are two positives here, 1 - you will maximise the benefits of the mods that have already been made, 2 - you are ready to make other hardware changes in the future and have the ability to get the most out of the future changes.
Leaves you with plenty of change (£500) to do some more work, personally I would look at front mounted intercooler if you are planning on sustained hard use (ie trackdays etc), we have got great results using Evo 6 FM intercoolers on the Murtaya.
I am sure you have already covered off two basics, but well worth revisitng decent tyres and a laser alignment session.
You will get a huge number of different opinions on here as everyone has their own view on what to do when, I hope this may prove to be at least some help.
Neil.
Edited by neilrallying on Monday 22 October 18:00
mneame, get yourself over to surrey scoobies and ask the question...
Many people over there have use jolly green monster to map there cars either on a rolling road or on road. i believe he uses the Apexi ECU as a replacement for the OEM one and results have been around 290-300 for a classic STI wagon. so i think you may get somewhere near that before you need any new turbo etc.
see
http://www.jollygreenmonster.com/
and speak to simon.
Steve
See thread
1st Remap
http://www.surreyscoobies.co.uk/forums/showthread....
and 2nd remap
http://www.surreyscoobies.co.uk/forums/showthread....
Many people over there have use jolly green monster to map there cars either on a rolling road or on road. i believe he uses the Apexi ECU as a replacement for the OEM one and results have been around 290-300 for a classic STI wagon. so i think you may get somewhere near that before you need any new turbo etc.
see
http://www.jollygreenmonster.com/
and speak to simon.
Steve
See thread
1st Remap
http://www.surreyscoobies.co.uk/forums/showthread....
and 2nd remap
http://www.surreyscoobies.co.uk/forums/showthread....
The only problem with the simtek is finding someone in the south who can map the things! You need a special dongle.
Has your car got the Td04 , or Td05? I'd go with a power FC, Simon is a good bet for the mapping and he will supply the ecu at a good cost.
Or drop me a mail, and i'll see what i can sort out with Pat.
As far as i can remember, there is no need to uprate the fuel pump for 300 either.
Has your car got the Td04 , or Td05? I'd go with a power FC, Simon is a good bet for the mapping and he will supply the ecu at a good cost.
Or drop me a mail, and i'll see what i can sort out with Pat.
As far as i can remember, there is no need to uprate the fuel pump for 300 either.
neilrallying said:
Great attitude to the mods, you will gain more by being able to drive the thing than by getting a shed load of power from it!
However with your budget I would suggest looking at a SIMTEC ECU from Steve Simpson Motorsport which will come in at around a grand mapped.
We use these on all of the cars that we build (although we are in no way associated with their business, just use good quality products!) and I have been really impressed with the results and the quality of their service.
There are two positives here, 1 - you will maximise the benefits of the mods that have already been made, 2 - you are ready to make other hardware changes in the future and have the ability to get the most out of the future changes.
Leaves you with plenty of change (£500) to do some more work, personally I would look at front mounted intercooler if you are planning on sustained hard use (ie trackdays etc), we have got great results using Evo 6 FM intercoolers on the Murtaya.
I am sure you have already covered off two basics, but well worth revisitng decent tyres and a laser alignment session.
You will get a huge number of different opinions on here as everyone has their own view on what to do when, I hope this may prove to be at least some help.
Neil.
Cheers for the help. However with your budget I would suggest looking at a SIMTEC ECU from Steve Simpson Motorsport which will come in at around a grand mapped.
We use these on all of the cars that we build (although we are in no way associated with their business, just use good quality products!) and I have been really impressed with the results and the quality of their service.
There are two positives here, 1 - you will maximise the benefits of the mods that have already been made, 2 - you are ready to make other hardware changes in the future and have the ability to get the most out of the future changes.
Leaves you with plenty of change (£500) to do some more work, personally I would look at front mounted intercooler if you are planning on sustained hard use (ie trackdays etc), we have got great results using Evo 6 FM intercoolers on the Murtaya.
I am sure you have already covered off two basics, but well worth revisitng decent tyres and a laser alignment session.
You will get a huge number of different opinions on here as everyone has their own view on what to do when, I hope this may prove to be at least some help.
Neil.
Edited by neilrallying on Monday 22 October 18:00
most people think they can drive but really can't if they're truthful so i am going to work on that. I've not done track days before, just enjoy a spirited b road drive every now and then. But i want that to change, so driver training it is, then onto the track
will look into the simtec, i don't mind travelling to get it fitted and mapped. will be an interesting drive home lol.
i had thought about a front mount, but for the power i am looking for at the moment i think that the top mount will be fine. plus, front mount will add extra weight to the front which will add to the understeer
will be moving the battery to the boot though and the car will be stripped out completely.brake wise i've got the comp brake pro race 7 setup to go on with powervein bells and rotors and the intermediate pad so that they have a bit more bite than road pads but still work well on the road.
tyre wise, i will be looking to get some track wheels so will go for cut slicks there. for the road not 100% sure. i've had toyo before and liked them, but thinking about eagle f1. mate has them on his e30 m3 and they are superb.
alignment is planned. there are a couple of places not to far away from me that have a good reputation for that. for the cost, probably one of the more sensible mods. i was thinking about changing the suspension setup at some point too so may get it all done together. am looking to sell a few bits that i won't be using in the everyday car anymore - full dvd / sat nav setup - so might put the funds towards that lol.
stevieb said:
mneame, get yourself over to surrey scoobies and ask the question...
Many people over there have use jolly green monster to map there cars either on a rolling road or on road. i believe he uses the Apexi ECU as a replacement for the OEM one and results have been around 290-300 for a classic STI wagon. so i think you may get somewhere near that before you need any new turbo etc.
see
http://www.jollygreenmonster.com/
and speak to simon.
Steve
See thread
1st Remap
http://www.surreyscoobies.co.uk/forums/showthread....
and 2nd remap
http://www.surreyscoobies.co.uk/forums/showthread....
cheers will have look.Many people over there have use jolly green monster to map there cars either on a rolling road or on road. i believe he uses the Apexi ECU as a replacement for the OEM one and results have been around 290-300 for a classic STI wagon. so i think you may get somewhere near that before you need any new turbo etc.
see
http://www.jollygreenmonster.com/
and speak to simon.
Steve
See thread
1st Remap
http://www.surreyscoobies.co.uk/forums/showthread....
and 2nd remap
http://www.surreyscoobies.co.uk/forums/showthread....
Vixpy1 said:
The only problem with the simtek is finding someone in the south who can map the things! You need a special dongle.
Has your car got the Td04 , or Td05? I'd go with a power FC, Simon is a good bet for the mapping and he will supply the ecu at a good cost.
Or drop me a mail, and i'll see what i can sort out with Pat.
As far as i can remember, there is no need to uprate the fuel pump for 300 either.
has the td05. had thought about expanding the budget to get an 18g or 20g.Has your car got the Td04 , or Td05? I'd go with a power FC, Simon is a good bet for the mapping and he will supply the ecu at a good cost.
Or drop me a mail, and i'll see what i can sort out with Pat.
As far as i can remember, there is no need to uprate the fuel pump for 300 either.
just had a look and simons price is £800 for the pfc fitted and mapped. which seems good. andy forrest is £795+vat for supply and fit but recommended getting a avc-r as well. it's all so confusing lol.
one thing i would love is the option to have switchable als. a mate of a mate had it on his impreza, was only running about 330bhp but would hit 60 in the mid 3's. i know it can kill the turbo but it wouldn't get used much, honest
will drop you a mail.
mneame said:
front mount will add extra weight to the front which will add to the understeer
In all fairness. Any weight infront of the front wheels (Both FMIC and top mount interwarmer) Will cause understeer. Fair enough its further forward with a FMIC, but than the interwarmer, the weight is still there.Edited by Riknos on Wednesday 24th October 14:35
mneame said:
front mount will add extra weight to the front which will add to the understeer
In all fairness. Any weight infront of the front wheels (Both FMIC and top mount interwarmer) Will cause understeer. Fair enough its further forward with a FMIC, but than the interwarmer, but the weight is still there.Edited by Riknos on Wednesday 24th October 14:35
cheers for the responses guys.
i've been offered a motec m4 ecu second hand for £550. any have any idea what the motec ecu's are like? i was looking at them but counted them out before looking too much due to their cost.
it looks like this one has the anti lag feature enabled on it which is appealing. ok so it wouldn't get used very often but would be good to stop people sitting on my backside lol.
i've been offered a motec m4 ecu second hand for £550. any have any idea what the motec ecu's are like? i was looking at them but counted them out before looking too much due to their cost.
it looks like this one has the anti lag feature enabled on it which is appealing. ok so it wouldn't get used very often but would be good to stop people sitting on my backside lol.
mneame said:
cheers for the responses guys.
i've been offered a motec m4 ecu second hand for £550. any have any idea what the motec ecu's are like? i was looking at them but counted them out before looking too much due to their cost.
it looks like this one has the anti lag feature enabled on it which is appealing. ok so it wouldn't get used very often but would be good to stop people sitting on my backside lol.
There is an apexion ebay for £550 including the FC comanderi've been offered a motec m4 ecu second hand for £550. any have any idea what the motec ecu's are like? i was looking at them but counted them out before looking too much due to their cost.
it looks like this one has the anti lag feature enabled on it which is appealing. ok so it wouldn't get used very often but would be good to stop people sitting on my backside lol.
mneame said:
cheers for the responses guys.
i've been offered a motec m4 ecu second hand for £550. any have any idea what the motec ecu's are like? i was looking at them but counted them out before looking too much due to their cost.
it looks like this one has the anti lag feature enabled on it which is appealing. ok so it wouldn't get used very often but would be good to stop people sitting on my backside lol.
much much much better than apexi and the like. the M4's as I remember it are 4 cylinder specific. i've been offered a motec m4 ecu second hand for £550. any have any idea what the motec ecu's are like? i was looking at them but counted them out before looking too much due to their cost.
it looks like this one has the anti lag feature enabled on it which is appealing. ok so it wouldn't get used very often but would be good to stop people sitting on my backside lol.
They're very upgradeable, so further down the line you can add features etc. I'd go for Motec over pretty much any other managment.
personally, with the mods you already have, I'd go for a powerstation chassis setup first and foremost:
http://www.powerstation.org.uk/subaru_chassis.asp
then, get a basic grounding in driver training at your local iam: http://www.iam.org.uk/
then, once you're happy with that, you can move on to some advanced stuff here:
http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/index.htm
or here:
http://www.hpc.org.uk/standards/
http://www.powerstation.org.uk/subaru_chassis.asp
then, get a basic grounding in driver training at your local iam: http://www.iam.org.uk/
then, once you're happy with that, you can move on to some advanced stuff here:
http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/index.htm
or here:
http://www.hpc.org.uk/standards/
cheers for the info on the iam. looking into joining my local group. know a few class 1 police drivers so finding out if they are members. will be a bit easier to turn up with one of them rather than on my todd lol.
bit of an update for everyone else - i had the car on a rolling road at the weekend to get a before figure. 270.3 bhp and 253 lbft at the flywheel. which for a car that was made in 1993 with 240 bhp standard and very little mods so far, isn't too bad imo. the torque should improve with the addition of my equal length headers that i've got waiting to go on. so i may have some spare money to up the handling as well as the power. i'm pretty happy with the handling setup but when my driver skills improve i dare say that the handling to do with a goo work out.
cheers,
matt.
bit of an update for everyone else - i had the car on a rolling road at the weekend to get a before figure. 270.3 bhp and 253 lbft at the flywheel. which for a car that was made in 1993 with 240 bhp standard and very little mods so far, isn't too bad imo. the torque should improve with the addition of my equal length headers that i've got waiting to go on. so i may have some spare money to up the handling as well as the power. i'm pretty happy with the handling setup but when my driver skills improve i dare say that the handling to do with a goo work out.
cheers,
matt.
I recently mapped a similar car to yours with a "ScoobyECU" style chip in the standard ECU. It made a good solid 289bhp at the fly. Hardware mods to the engine were limited to a H&S full exhaust and a panel filter, so your 300 should be easy enough to get where you want to be without spending too much.
Hi,
the restrictions on the early car (93~96) when going for 300bhp are the intercooler (which going to larger top mount if sticknig with standard size turbo is ideal), map sensor, injectors.
On this age of car I would advise fitting a walbro fuel pump as the original will be getting on a bit in age now.. and the walbro flows a fair bit more and are very cheap, and easy to fit. Fuelling is going to be an issue and you would need an uprated fuel pressure regulator to up the pressure slightly to give more flow.
In addition when installing an Apexi Powerfc on this age car to obtain a true 300 on a dyno dynamics for example you would be looking at either a boost controller or an uprated map sensor to as the PowerFC will not allow more than 1bar of boost on the standard map sensor.
Another consideration with the early car is that the coilpacks only last around 4years and 80~90k miles.. so if they have no been changed previously as soon as the boost and therefore power is increased the engine will misfire.. and are £200 a set
Simon @ Jolly Green Monster
the restrictions on the early car (93~96) when going for 300bhp are the intercooler (which going to larger top mount if sticknig with standard size turbo is ideal), map sensor, injectors.
On this age of car I would advise fitting a walbro fuel pump as the original will be getting on a bit in age now.. and the walbro flows a fair bit more and are very cheap, and easy to fit. Fuelling is going to be an issue and you would need an uprated fuel pressure regulator to up the pressure slightly to give more flow.
In addition when installing an Apexi Powerfc on this age car to obtain a true 300 on a dyno dynamics for example you would be looking at either a boost controller or an uprated map sensor to as the PowerFC will not allow more than 1bar of boost on the standard map sensor.
Another consideration with the early car is that the coilpacks only last around 4years and 80~90k miles.. so if they have no been changed previously as soon as the boost and therefore power is increased the engine will misfire.. and are £200 a set
Simon @ Jolly Green Monster
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