Can I justify an Elise?
Discussion
Hi 
Have been thinking about changing cars as my 330ci no longer does it, hence the itch for an Elise.
This is a bit of a brain dump of all the things that are going through my mind, I think it may be a fairly long post! (Sorry in advance)
I’ve had a read of the buyers guides linked to on here and the other couple of threads that ask about getting into an Elise.
Apologies as this seems to be the 3rd ‘New Elise’ thread on here, my slant on this is slightly different so bare with me…..
1) The car is going to be my daily driver, I’m going to be doing circa 15-17k a year in it, mainly work commute, mix of B roads (), dual carriage ways and town driving. Is this possible? I would have thought so but is it advisable? I know the comfort / toys will be less than the 330 but that’s one of the reasons why the 300 bores me. I’m just concerned about reliability and running costs. Obviously servicing will be more regular as will brake pads/tyres but any other considerations?
2) In terms of the S2’s air con, is it any good? I mean is it like having a tree leaf wafted at you, good enough to cool the cabin, like opening a fridge or like walking into a deep freezer?
3) The same question but about the heating. I’m going to be getting into it on a cold January morning @6am, having to scrape the ice off it (as it’ll be on the drive – damm small garages) will the heater demist the windscreen effectively and heat the cabin?
4) From looking / reading getting a S2 111R would seem to suit me best. I’m going to Merrits in Amersham on Sunday to have a look and chat, and maybe a test drive or 2. Can any one recommend them? (I’ll also be popping into London Lotus at some point when I have a Saturday free so Hi to London Lotus as I’ve seen he posts on here).
I’ve got to p/x my 330 so can’t buy privately unfortunately, any recommendations on other dealers near me apart from the 2 above?
5) I live near Aylesbury / High Wycombe – can anyone recommend a good indy round / near there I can use / speak to?
With regards to servicing I’ve seen some vastly different serving costs from different people ranging from:
A Service - £80/100 - £195
B Service - £180/225 – £295
C Service - £250 - £580
Are these differences down to what different dealers / indy’s charge?
Can anyone give me an idea of the frequency of the servicing for the A,B,C? I’m assuming it is mileage based so will help me to work out my running costs.
Obviously I’ll speak to my local indy to suss their pricing but fore armed and all….
6) Not too fussed on colour at this point, more concerned with the spec. Ideal min spec will be along the lines of:
1. Air Con
2. Hard Top (for the winter months especially the
)
3. Alarm / Imob
4. Remote Central Locking
5. Elec Windows
6. CD Player
7. Leather interior
8. Carpets
(Basically the touring package I would guess)
Btw what are Driving Lamps?
Phew – bit of a marathon but any help / pointers appreciated!
Ta
HL
Have been thinking about changing cars as my 330ci no longer does it, hence the itch for an Elise.
This is a bit of a brain dump of all the things that are going through my mind, I think it may be a fairly long post! (Sorry in advance)
I’ve had a read of the buyers guides linked to on here and the other couple of threads that ask about getting into an Elise.
Apologies as this seems to be the 3rd ‘New Elise’ thread on here, my slant on this is slightly different so bare with me…..
1) The car is going to be my daily driver, I’m going to be doing circa 15-17k a year in it, mainly work commute, mix of B roads (
), dual carriage ways and town driving. Is this possible? I would have thought so but is it advisable? I know the comfort / toys will be less than the 330 but that’s one of the reasons why the 300 bores me. I’m just concerned about reliability and running costs. Obviously servicing will be more regular as will brake pads/tyres but any other considerations? 2) In terms of the S2’s air con, is it any good? I mean is it like having a tree leaf wafted at you, good enough to cool the cabin, like opening a fridge or like walking into a deep freezer?
3) The same question but about the heating. I’m going to be getting into it on a cold January morning @6am, having to scrape the ice off it (as it’ll be on the drive – damm small garages) will the heater demist the windscreen effectively and heat the cabin?
4) From looking / reading getting a S2 111R would seem to suit me best. I’m going to Merrits in Amersham on Sunday to have a look and chat, and maybe a test drive or 2. Can any one recommend them? (I’ll also be popping into London Lotus at some point when I have a Saturday free so Hi to London Lotus as I’ve seen he posts on here).
I’ve got to p/x my 330 so can’t buy privately unfortunately, any recommendations on other dealers near me apart from the 2 above?
5) I live near Aylesbury / High Wycombe – can anyone recommend a good indy round / near there I can use / speak to?
With regards to servicing I’ve seen some vastly different serving costs from different people ranging from:
A Service - £80/100 - £195
B Service - £180/225 – £295
C Service - £250 - £580
Are these differences down to what different dealers / indy’s charge?
Can anyone give me an idea of the frequency of the servicing for the A,B,C? I’m assuming it is mileage based so will help me to work out my running costs.
Obviously I’ll speak to my local indy to suss their pricing but fore armed and all….
6) Not too fussed on colour at this point, more concerned with the spec. Ideal min spec will be along the lines of:
1. Air Con
2. Hard Top (for the winter months especially the
)3. Alarm / Imob
4. Remote Central Locking
5. Elec Windows
6. CD Player
7. Leather interior
8. Carpets
(Basically the touring package I would guess)
Btw what are Driving Lamps?
Phew – bit of a marathon but any help / pointers appreciated!
Ta
HL
The air con and heater are both fine. Not particularly powerful but it's a tiny cabin so they don't need to be. However if you're the kind of person who worries about air conditioning you might want to think about whether the Elise is really the right sort of car for you... I sought out a car without air conditioning on purpose because I thought it was a bloody stupid idea in a car like the Elise. 
I went through this decision making process 6 months ago and I decided the 111S was better than the 111R as a daily driver. That's partly because I hated the engine in the 111R though. There really is no problem with the car as a daily driver unless you do lots of motorway miles or tend to park in dodgy areas.
It should cost you FAR less to run than the BMW.
ETA: another couple of points:
1) Lotus "remote central locking" means that it works from six inches from the car
2) Electric windows are a bit pointless because the switches are only on the door they operate. If you can reach the switch for the passenger window, you can reach the winder too.
Just get lots of test drives and see what you like.
I went through this decision making process 6 months ago and I decided the 111S was better than the 111R as a daily driver. That's partly because I hated the engine in the 111R though. There really is no problem with the car as a daily driver unless you do lots of motorway miles or tend to park in dodgy areas.
It should cost you FAR less to run than the BMW.
ETA: another couple of points:
1) Lotus "remote central locking" means that it works from six inches from the car
2) Electric windows are a bit pointless because the switches are only on the door they operate. If you can reach the switch for the passenger window, you can reach the winder too.
Just get lots of test drives and see what you like.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 25th October 13:47
Hiya & welcome sir
I have owned 6 Bmw's previously to owning Lotus car's, they are so different it really is like chalk and cheese. I actually envy you as your now going to go through the best faze of all discovering a Lotus for the first time. I'd strongly advise you to opt for a Elise 111r SC it's a new model being released and available now through your dealer. Touring pack comes as standard but I think you can also request a super touring pack but I wouldn't bother, it's just fiderly bit's you don't need unless they are going to throw it in for nothing?
Bargain hard and you wont be disappointed, driven R's for over 3 year's and have just now switched to an Exige S you will love it!
Boggy
I have owned 6 Bmw's previously to owning Lotus car's, they are so different it really is like chalk and cheese. I actually envy you as your now going to go through the best faze of all discovering a Lotus for the first time. I'd strongly advise you to opt for a Elise 111r SC it's a new model being released and available now through your dealer. Touring pack comes as standard but I think you can also request a super touring pack but I wouldn't bother, it's just fiderly bit's you don't need unless they are going to throw it in for nothing?
Bargain hard and you wont be disappointed, driven R's for over 3 year's and have just now switched to an Exige S you will love it!
Boggy
Hollow Legs said:
With regards to servicing I’ve seen some vastly different serving costs from different people ranging from:
A Service - £80/100 - £195
B Service - £180/225 – £295
C Service - £250 - £580
Are these differences down to what different dealers / indy’s charge?
A Service is around £195 - £325 depending were you go, I wouldn't worry to much about service cost's if your buying new aim to try and get something when you purchaseA Service - £80/100 - £195
B Service - £180/225 – £295
C Service - £250 - £580
Are these differences down to what different dealers / indy’s charge?
Boggy
1) Lots of people do those sort of miles and more without major issues.
2) I found it okay when I test drove a 111R with aircon, did the job.
3) Heating has been fine for me so far. Get a cover though (Join SELOC, you get 15% off with Specialised Car Covers), as the demist can take a while.
4) Never used them
5) Not in your area
6) Hard top - properly adjusted windows and treated soft top don't leak, even when it really throws it down.
Alarm - All S2 come with the Cobra, but it doesn't work till you're about 2ft away.
CD Player - MY05 come with Blaupunkt DAB54 which personally I find it terrible. MY06 AFAIK come with Alpine. I put a Pioneer in mine, much better bass response than the DAB54.
Driving Lamps - Look like fog lights on the front, but they aren't
Above all, go out, drive a few, have fun and I guarantee you'll buy one.
2) I found it okay when I test drove a 111R with aircon, did the job.
3) Heating has been fine for me so far. Get a cover though (Join SELOC, you get 15% off with Specialised Car Covers), as the demist can take a while.
4) Never used them
5) Not in your area
6) Hard top - properly adjusted windows and treated soft top don't leak, even when it really throws it down.
Alarm - All S2 come with the Cobra, but it doesn't work till you're about 2ft away.
CD Player - MY05 come with Blaupunkt DAB54 which personally I find it terrible. MY06 AFAIK come with Alpine. I put a Pioneer in mine, much better bass response than the DAB54.
Driving Lamps - Look like fog lights on the front, but they aren't
Above all, go out, drive a few, have fun and I guarantee you'll buy one.
thanks for the replies so far.
I'm not buying new (I wish) so sorry if I implied that. I ment I need to p/x the BM at a dealer as I use it every day and can't afford to buy an Elise & wait for the BM to sell or sell the BM then buy the Elise.
info on the electirc windows - very interesting and not suprised. will put them on the nice to have list then
with regards to the air con / heating - just curious about the effectiveness as it'll be the daily driver. Looking forward to roof off into work in the summer and hard top to keep me dry in the winter, but if i need to look presentable on arrival at a clients then roof on and air con is required.
will def look to drive as many as poss over the next few weeks / month(s)
Interesting comment about the 111R vs S. Will also drive one of those!
cant wait for Sunday. (hope the misues like her suprise road trip to Merrits!)
Hollow Legs said:
thanks for the replies so far.
I'm not buying new (I wish) so sorry if I implied that. I ment I need to p/x the BM at a dealer as I use it every day and can't afford to buy an Elise & wait for the BM to sell or sell the BM then buy the Elise.
info on the electirc windows - very interesting and not suprised. will put them on the nice to have list then
with regards to the air con / heating - just curious about the effectiveness as it'll be the daily driver. Looking forward to roof off into work in the summer and hard top to keep me dry in the winter, but if i need to look presentable on arrival at a clients then roof on and air con is required.
will def look to drive as many as poss over the next few weeks / month(s)
Interesting comment about the 111R vs S. Will also drive one of those!
cant wait for Sunday. (hope the misues like her suprise road trip to Merrits!)
Boggy
I traded my BMW 330ci in for an Elise two years ago and haven't regretted it for a second. Perfectly practical everyday. Yes, the air con is fine, although I can't say I use it much other than for de-misting in the winter. The hard top is excellent, and noticeably quieter and warmer than the soft top. Go for a touring spec model and everyday use is not a problem at all.
I had a budget of about £20-£25k two years ago, so was probably looking at similar cars to you're looking at now. I found the 111R with touring pack and 111S (touring as standard) best suited to my needs, but the early 111Rs have servo brakes with a sinking brake pedal issue that put me right off, plus they didn't feel as light on their feet as the 111S in an equivalent spec (i.e. fullly loaded). I plumped for the S and haven't regretted it for one second
Some cars had an 'NVH hood', which seemed like a good idea as it was a bit quieter than the straight canvas good my 53 reg 111S came with.
I went to Wilsons north of London for my car - basically because I decided on the colour and spec and was willing to travel anywhere! They were a very friendly and helpful bunch, in fact one of the salesmen is a regular poster on here
I had a budget of about £20-£25k two years ago, so was probably looking at similar cars to you're looking at now. I found the 111R with touring pack and 111S (touring as standard) best suited to my needs, but the early 111Rs have servo brakes with a sinking brake pedal issue that put me right off, plus they didn't feel as light on their feet as the 111S in an equivalent spec (i.e. fullly loaded). I plumped for the S and haven't regretted it for one second
Some cars had an 'NVH hood', which seemed like a good idea as it was a bit quieter than the straight canvas good my 53 reg 111S came with.I went to Wilsons north of London for my car - basically because I decided on the colour and spec and was willing to travel anywhere! They were a very friendly and helpful bunch, in fact one of the salesmen is a regular poster on here
Beware of model names. The "Elise 111R" and "Elise R" are basically the same car. The "Elise 111S" and the "Elise S" are not the same car. The S is a low powered Honda lump, the 111S is a VVC K-series. The 111S is nearly as quick as a 111R/R, the S is quite a bit slower. There was also a car called the "Elise 111" which has the VVC K-series engine but not the touring pack; that's pretty rare though.
Doing that kind mileage you might be interested in the fact that the 111S does 41mpg and the 111R about 33mpg; on the motorway it's plausible to get about 50mpg from a 111S because it's quite high geared. The 111S is tax band D too, not that that makes a significant difference.
Doing that kind mileage you might be interested in the fact that the 111S does 41mpg and the 111R about 33mpg; on the motorway it's plausible to get about 50mpg from a 111S because it's quite high geared. The 111S is tax band D too, not that that makes a significant difference.
kambites said:
Beware of model names. The "Elise 111R" and "Elise R" are basically the same car. The "Elise 111S" and the "Elise S" are not the same car. The S is a low powered Honda lump, the 111S is a VVC K-series. The 111S is nearly as quick as a 111R/R, the S is quite a bit slower. There was also a car called the "Elise 111" which has the VVC K-series engine but not the touring pack; that's pretty rare though.
Doing that kind mileage you might be interested in the fact that the 111S does 41mpg and the 111R about 33mpg; on the motorway it's plausible to get about 50mpg from a 111S because it's quite high geared. The 111S is tax band D too, not that that makes a significant difference.
All good points. It's also worth experiencing the different styles of power delivery before making your decision. Personally, I'm not a straight line oomph man - more of a handling and cornering person whilst keeping an engine in the torque band. For that reason the 111S driving experience suits me better (it's also a lighter car in equivalent spec). There are plenty of threads comparing 111S and 111R, and I don't wish to reopen the can of worms, but I can wholeheartedly recommend that you drive both before making your decision. Something else that you might like to consider is increasing your budget to buy a newer 111R with the brake pedal / throttle pedal problems sorted out. I think if that had been sorted on the cars I was looking at (£20-£25k two years ago), I may have been swayed away from the 111S towards the 111R. I'm afraid I can't remember when the problem was solved, but someone else might advise on this.Doing that kind mileage you might be interested in the fact that the 111S does 41mpg and the 111R about 33mpg; on the motorway it's plausible to get about 50mpg from a 111S because it's quite high geared. The 111S is tax band D too, not that that makes a significant difference.
'06 Elise S with touring pack to get the aircon which I think will be essential as a daily driver, even if just to demist the car properly. Agree leccy windows are a nonsense but they are there so not much option. Maybe an older R if you get on with it. Not everyone likes the peaky torque and power band.
As a daily driver I would have probably gone for a newish Elise S but I don't drive mine daily, in fact barely weekly at the moment
Very difficult to "justify" an Elise or any Lotus really. You just have to decide whether you are prepared to forego the comfort and toys in return for the driving experience.
As a daily driver I would have probably gone for a newish Elise S but I don't drive mine daily, in fact barely weekly at the moment
Very difficult to "justify" an Elise or any Lotus really. You just have to decide whether you are prepared to forego the comfort and toys in return for the driving experience.
Edited by 21TonyK on Thursday 25th October 14:34
I'd disagree about the electric windows:
kambites said:
Electric windows are a bit pointless because the switches are only on the door they operate. If you can reach the switch for the passenger window, you can reach the winder too.
Pressing a button is far safer when on the move than rotating a handle at arm's reach!! Electric windows are a major plus point for me. Plus passengers always use the winders to close the doors and they break! Lastly, I thought the electric mechanism was either lighter or the same weight as the winder mechanism?Hollow Legs - I have just gone through this decision process, you're in a great position. I pick my 111R up on Sunday.
The best advice really is to drive them all as they have very different characters and each supply you with a different experience, don’t get me wrong each model provides a very enjoyable experience but only you will know what suits you best.
Shop around and barging hard. There are deals to be had out there and extras to be thrown in
The best advice really is to drive them all as they have very different characters and each supply you with a different experience, don’t get me wrong each model provides a very enjoyable experience but only you will know what suits you best.
Shop around and barging hard. There are deals to be had out there and extras to be thrown in
some great info / opinons - thanks!
Had thought the 111R would be the one to go for, but looks like I need a re-think and a few drives. Looking at the 17-19k ish (at a push)price bracket so roughly upto a 2004/5 MY with a bit of luck.
Have just spoken to Merrits and they dont do test drives on Sundays so need to find out what time I'm going on Sat to see if its possible to squeeze one in.....
agree about the air con to demist, find it works better than heat alone
I know its diffucult to justify one in normal terms, I think its more can I justify it to myself taking into account the loss of luxeries (probably), servicing costs (probably) and all the other good things about running a car in return for a BIG Smile. The worst thought is it being unreliable or tempermental, which from researching won't be a problem.
riwiho - good luck on Sunday you lucky so & so. Where did you get yours from if you dont mind me asking? also any details on the 'extra's'? (email me if you'd prefer)
Really want to drive one now!
Edited to add 2004MY as a 2005 my be out of my price range at a dealers.Unless I really haggle
Had thought the 111R would be the one to go for, but looks like I need a re-think and a few drives. Looking at the 17-19k ish (at a push)price bracket so roughly upto a 2004/5 MY with a bit of luck.
Have just spoken to Merrits and they dont do test drives on Sundays so need to find out what time I'm going on Sat to see if its possible to squeeze one in.....
agree about the air con to demist, find it works better than heat alone
I know its diffucult to justify one in normal terms, I think its more can I justify it to myself taking into account the loss of luxeries (probably), servicing costs (probably) and all the other good things about running a car in return for a BIG Smile. The worst thought is it being unreliable or tempermental, which from researching won't be a problem.
riwiho - good luck on Sunday you lucky so & so. Where did you get yours from if you dont mind me asking? also any details on the 'extra's'? (email me if you'd prefer)
Really want to drive one now!
Edited to add 2004MY as a 2005 my be out of my price range at a dealers.Unless I really haggle
Edited by Hollow Legs on Thursday 25th October 14:52
I should add that both my services have been way more than quoted so far. First was at a main dealer (£900 if you exclude an upgrade I had done), and second was at an independant (£800, including new discs and pads). Getting over 40mpg pays for this though
Air con is useful for demisting, but is it worth 10kg? I'm not sure it is.
2005MY may well be the 111Rs with the drive by wire throttle, which solves the brake pedal sink issue by providing a lower throttle pedal and the brake action was tightened up too.
Air con is useful for demisting, but is it worth 10kg? I'm not sure it is.
2005MY may well be the 111Rs with the drive by wire throttle, which solves the brake pedal sink issue by providing a lower throttle pedal and the brake action was tightened up too.
RobM77 said:
Pressing a button is far safer when on the move than rotating a handle at arm's reach!! Electric windows are a major plus point for me. Plus passengers always use the winders to close the doors and they break! Lastly, I thought the electric mechanism was either lighter or the same weight as the winder mechanism?
I'd consider either to be too dangerous while moving so it makes no difference to me from that point of view. I actually have electric windows anyway, I was just pointing out that they aren't really necessary.Can you buy baby dehumidifiers to run off the lighter socket in cars? That'd give you the best of both worlds because you could take it out when you didn't need it.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 25th October 14:55
kambites said:
RobM77 said:
Pressing a button is far safer when on the move than rotating a handle at arm's reach!! Electric windows are a major plus point for me. Plus passengers always use the winders to close the doors and they break! Lastly, I thought the electric mechanism was either lighter or the same weight as the winder mechanism?
I'd consider either to be too dangerous while moving so it makes no difference to me from that point of view. I actually have electric windows anyway, I was just pointing out that they aren't really necessary.Can you buy baby dehumidifiers to run off the lighter socket in cars? That'd give you the best of both worlds because you could take it out when you didn't need it.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 25th October 14:55
I..err.. do actually operate my windows whilst driving, so I guess that's why I prefer electric.
kambites said:
Beware of model names. The "Elise 111R" and "Elise R" are basically the same car. The "Elise 111S" and the "Elise S" are not the same car. The S is a low powered Honda lump, the 111S is a VVC K-series. The 111S is nearly as quick as a 111R/R, the S is quite a bit slower. There was also a car called the "Elise 111" which has the VVC K-series engine but not the touring pack; that's pretty rare though.
Doing that kind mileage you might be interested in the fact that the 111S does 41mpg and the 111R about 33mpg; on the motorway it's plausible to get about 50mpg from a 111S because it's quite high geared. The 111S is tax band D too, not that that makes a significant difference.
I think you mean low powered Toyota?Doing that kind mileage you might be interested in the fact that the 111S does 41mpg and the 111R about 33mpg; on the motorway it's plausible to get about 50mpg from a 111S because it's quite high geared. The 111S is tax band D too, not that that makes a significant difference.
Boggy
Edited by Boggy on Thursday 25th October 15:18
RobM77 said:
kambites said:
Beware of model names. The "Elise 111R" and "Elise R" are basically the same car. The "Elise 111S" and the "Elise S" are not the same car. The S is a low powered Honda lump, the 111S is a VVC K-series. The 111S is nearly as quick as a 111R/R, the S is quite a bit slower. There was also a car called the "Elise 111" which has the VVC K-series engine but not the touring pack; that's pretty rare though.
Doing that kind mileage you might be interested in the fact that the 111S does 41mpg and the 111R about 33mpg; on the motorway it's plausible to get about 50mpg from a 111S because it's quite high geared. The 111S is tax band D too, not that that makes a significant difference.
All good points. It's also worth experiencing the different styles of power delivery before making your decision. Personally, I'm not a straight line oomph man - more of a handling and cornering person whilst keeping an engine in the torque band. For that reason the 111S driving experience suits me better (it's also a lighter car in equivalent spec). There are plenty of threads comparing 111S and 111R, and I don't wish to reopen the can of worms, but I can wholeheartedly recommend that you drive both before making your decision. Something else that you might like to consider is increasing your budget to buy a newer 111R with the brake pedal / throttle pedal problems sorted out. I think if that had been sorted on the cars I was looking at (£20-£25k two years ago), I may have been swayed away from the 111S towards the 111R. I'm afraid I can't remember when the problem was solved, but someone else might advise on this.Doing that kind mileage you might be interested in the fact that the 111S does 41mpg and the 111R about 33mpg; on the motorway it's plausible to get about 50mpg from a 111S because it's quite high geared. The 111S is tax band D too, not that that makes a significant difference.
I drove both the 111s and the 111r at the time but plumped for the r on the basis that the brakes on the s were completely useless, the gearshift was like stirring porridge, plus there was the small matter of the second cam on the r which I became instantly addicted to.
I didn't bother with aircon at the time because it was extra money (I'm mean) and not really the point of the car. Mine is an occasional daily driver, and it demists pretty quickly just from the blowers alone, although I do have an outdoor cover for it, which also helps.
Servicing intervals are every 9k miles or 12 months. Join Seloc and you'll get discount on dealer labour rates, plus lots of advice on indies. In a nutshell, it's surprisingly cheap to run, provided you don't get sucked into Upgrade Alley or track days.
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