Speed camera responsible for death crash?
Discussion
www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/stories/Detail_LinkStory=61374.html
Accident occurred a few yards after a speed camera. Skid marks on the road indicate heavy braking. Will the council face corporate manslaughter charges?
Accident occurred a few yards after a speed camera. Skid marks on the road indicate heavy braking. Will the council face corporate manslaughter charges?
Eh? I don't see any mention about a speed camera.
How many yards past it?
Did the camera suddenly jump ut into the road without looking causing the driver to veer across the road?
We do not know.
Corporate Manslaughter is not even on the agenda.
Maybe he was going a tad too fast
17 year old in a Subaru imprezza 
How many yards past it?
Did the camera suddenly jump ut into the road without looking causing the driver to veer across the road?
We do not know.
Corporate Manslaughter is not even on the agenda.
Maybe he was going a tad too fast
17 year old in a Subaru imprezza madcop said:
Eh? I don't see any mention about a speed camera.
How many yards past it?
Did the camera suddenly jump ut into the road without looking causing the driver to veer across the road?
We do not know.
Corporate Manslaughter is not even on the agenda.
Maybe he was going a tad too fast
I assume from the title of the post there must have been a camera somewhere however I agree I can't see how Manchester Council or the scamera partnership can be liable.
On the assumption he braked hard to slow for the camera he must have been doing some speed in the first place so I would assume that driver error is likely to be high up on the causes of the accident.
Having said that with cameras, especially partially hidden ones, there is always going to be a danger that accidents are going to be caused by people breaking hard. However the same would apply if there was a marked traffic car with a police officer and laser.
All in all it can probably be put down as a speed related accident, unless more evidence comes to light.
Has anyone noticed that people seem to brake on approaching a speed camera even if they are travelling on or under the speed limit?
Therefore, just because someone was possibly braking at the time does not mean that they were necessarily travelling faster than the (probably too low) limit.
Therefore, just because someone was possibly braking at the time does not mean that they were necessarily travelling faster than the (probably too low) limit.
james_j said:
Has anyone noticed that people seem to brake on approaching a speed camera even if they are travelling on or under the speed limit?
Therefore, just because someone was possibly braking at the time does not mean that they were necessarily travelling faster than the (probably too low) limit.
I have also noticed that people drive past speed cameras at 28 to 30mph. Often in 40 and 50 mph limits...on dual carriageways! Then they get all amazed when I overtake at a perfectly legal speed...bizarre.
I feel terribly sorry for this poor lad - but it does sound like driver error. Of course..I wasn't there...so I can't ever know for sure.
The locals in Wycombe (Terriers) had one of those radar controlled speed signs out this afternoon. As I drove past it I'm sure it gave me a sad smile and reported my speed as 29mph. I really don't think that's on. Can they make the smile sad below the limit?
The reason I'm not sure is that it was positioned in a really stupid spot and I only got a split second to even see the sign - I'm sure a lot of people didn't see it as they drove past. 200 yds either way there are open spaces (no houses by the road) where more people would more likely speed (one next to a Hungry Horse pub - i.e. family place and the other open space going past an infants school). If they're going to use these devices then at least put them in the right place! grrr.
The reason I'm not sure is that it was positioned in a really stupid spot and I only got a split second to even see the sign - I'm sure a lot of people didn't see it as they drove past. 200 yds either way there are open spaces (no houses by the road) where more people would more likely speed (one next to a Hungry Horse pub - i.e. family place and the other open space going past an infants school). If they're going to use these devices then at least put them in the right place! grrr.
I am convinced that cameras are a distraction too far.
Whenever I go down a perfectly safe A road I spend a rediculous amount of my observation time scanning for cameras/vans which is probably making me prematurely fatigued and thus a greater liability.
And I completely agree with whoever pointed out that we spend so much time checking the speedo that watching the road is becoming secondary. It would be so much better to play 'spot the unmarked BiB' which gets you watching the traffic.
I have just read the piece.
I know this road very well. This is a an arrow straight road with good visibility. No reason to brake hard unless the camera (which we have millions {just gone up}, and not yellow) is one you have not seen before.
I am concluding that the guy was probably speeding like hell, but this is a civil matter.
Not a death sentance.
Would therefore be alive today if not for a camera.
.
>> Edited by planetdave on Wednesday 25th June 21:59
Whenever I go down a perfectly safe A road I spend a rediculous amount of my observation time scanning for cameras/vans which is probably making me prematurely fatigued and thus a greater liability.
And I completely agree with whoever pointed out that we spend so much time checking the speedo that watching the road is becoming secondary. It would be so much better to play 'spot the unmarked BiB' which gets you watching the traffic.
I have just read the piece.
I know this road very well. This is a an arrow straight road with good visibility. No reason to brake hard unless the camera (which we have millions {just gone up}, and not yellow) is one you have not seen before.
I am concluding that the guy was probably speeding like hell, but this is a civil matter.
Not a death sentance.
Would therefore be alive today if not for a camera.
.
>> Edited by planetdave on Wednesday 25th June 21:59
madcop said:
Maybe he was going a tad too fast
We also do not know whether he was going too fast or not, nor whether the Impreza was a Turbo or a standard 1.6... There is never enough imformation in news article to determine whether such cases were due to excess speed or panic braking or whatever.
james_j said:Yup, I do it quite a lot. When I spot a camera my foot hits the brake as my eyes move to the speedo. More often than not I'm not speeding in the first place (and consciously knew it) but can't help the reaction.
Has anyone noticed that people seem to brake on approaching a speed camera even if they are travelling on or under the speed limit?
Its a bit like how you always feel you are guilty of something when a copper asks you a question.
james_j said:
Has anyone noticed that people seem to brake on approaching a speed camera even if they are travelling on or under the speed limit?
Therefore, just because someone was possibly braking at the time does not mean that they were necessarily travelling faster than the (probably too low) limit.
I don't brake even if I am under the limit or even bang on it. I think you will find it is always people over the limit that brake!
egomeister said:
Maybe he was going a tad too fast
We also do not know whether he was going too fast or not, nor whether the Impreza was a Turbo or a standard 1.6... There is never enough imformation in news article to determine whether such cases were due to excess speed or panic braking or whatever.
You are right. We do not know the full circumstances, however all the circumstantial evidence suggests that if he braked and swerved and died, he was travelling fast!
madcop said:
You are right. We do not know the full circumstances, however all the circumstantial evidence suggests that if he braked and swerved and died, he was travelling fast!
Why's that, then?
Let's assume he swerved for a dog. Let's assume he was doing 30 and the oncoming Passat was doing 30. Let's assume it was a direct hit head-on.
Just like driving into a concrete block at 60. Potentially fatal.
However, we've missed one point. He was dead at the scene. His passenger was seriously injured. Four pensioners in the oncoming Passat were slightly injured.
Anyone care to bet on whether the lads were wearing seat belts??
planetdave said:
Would therefore be alive today if not for a camera.
>> Edited by planetdave on Wednesday 25th June 21:59
Excuse me but b
x! I am in complete agreement with
here. He would be alive if he had not had the accident or maybe he was not wearing a seatbelt, the other car's occupants all survived with just minor injuries. We can assume he braked for a camera, but if had not been travelling over the speed limit there was no requirement to brake therefore unless there was some kind of mechanical breakdown this sounds like driver error to me.madcop said:
Eh? I don't see any mention about a speed camera.
How many yards past it?
Did the camera suddenly jump ut into the road without looking causing the driver to veer across the road?
We do not know.
Corporate Manslaughter is not even on the agenda.
Maybe he was going a tad too fast
No mention of the camera in the article, but it is there, about 25 yards infront of the spot where the bunches of flowers are. Maybe the presence of the camera was deliberately not mentioned in press releases. Go and take a look for yourself if you don't believe me.
mybrainhurts said:This is crap IMO.. ifs buts & maybes are of no consequence..
Regardless of whether or not he was speeding, if he did react to the camera, he would have been alive now if the camera hadn't been there.
If the dog hadn't run out into the road...
If that debris hadn't blown a tyre out...
If Plod hadnt come round the corner...
If his dad had used a johnny...
If his mam wasn't the Bramhall Bike...
If he'd voted conservative...
If stuff had happened differently, things wouldn't be the same now.
At the end of the day, how the fcuk do you lose control of an Impreza of whatever varietyat speeds appropriate to an urban setting??? Or even at twice the speed appropriate to an urban setting??
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff