Intermittent noisy tappet
Discussion
Recently my 1995 4.0ltr (pre-serpentine, 61k miles) engine has developed an intermittent noisy tappet. The fact that it is intermittent suggests that it is definitely a tappet that is not adjusting properly, as opposed to a blowing exhaust gasket as often suggested.
I first noticed it driving on the M4 travelling gently at 70 but went away again several minutes later. To begin with it didn’t do it at start up, like expected tappet noise before the oil pressure builds. Now it does do it at start up and is getting more frequent when driving.
I tried adding a bottle of Wynn’s Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment as a first step solution, but it seems to have made it worse! Maybe it cleaned away some of the sludge that was helping it to work!?
So I am thinking that I will have to change camshaft/lifter/push rods. (I have been told it’s a false economy not to change everything whilst it’s apart, which makes sense).
I had wondered about whipping the rocker covers off to inspect the rockers for any damage/wear but feel this is unlikely to help? Yesterday I unscrewed the oil filler cap whilst the engine was running and was surprised to see hardly a glimmer of oil splashing around!? Is this normal? Is there only a trickle feed to the rocker shaft? I may see if I can have a look into the other (drivers side) bank via the breather hose to see how much oil there is.
Oil pressure normally is a good 30psi+ However, I have noticed that it seems to take longer to build pressure when starting the engine (convinced myself I am not being paranoid I think). Could this suggest a blocked oil way?
Oil was changed 3,500 miles ago and is Valvoline VR1 10W-60 Semi-Synthetic. Had thought an oil+filter change was the only other simple thing to do before stripping the engine…?
Basically I’m asking if anyone has any advice or experience on this matter.
Many thanks,
Pete.
I first noticed it driving on the M4 travelling gently at 70 but went away again several minutes later. To begin with it didn’t do it at start up, like expected tappet noise before the oil pressure builds. Now it does do it at start up and is getting more frequent when driving.
I tried adding a bottle of Wynn’s Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment as a first step solution, but it seems to have made it worse! Maybe it cleaned away some of the sludge that was helping it to work!?
So I am thinking that I will have to change camshaft/lifter/push rods. (I have been told it’s a false economy not to change everything whilst it’s apart, which makes sense).
I had wondered about whipping the rocker covers off to inspect the rockers for any damage/wear but feel this is unlikely to help? Yesterday I unscrewed the oil filler cap whilst the engine was running and was surprised to see hardly a glimmer of oil splashing around!? Is this normal? Is there only a trickle feed to the rocker shaft? I may see if I can have a look into the other (drivers side) bank via the breather hose to see how much oil there is.
Oil pressure normally is a good 30psi+ However, I have noticed that it seems to take longer to build pressure when starting the engine (convinced myself I am not being paranoid I think). Could this suggest a blocked oil way?
Oil was changed 3,500 miles ago and is Valvoline VR1 10W-60 Semi-Synthetic. Had thought an oil+filter change was the only other simple thing to do before stripping the engine…?
Basically I’m asking if anyone has any advice or experience on this matter.
Many thanks,
Pete.
Right, my car is finally back on the road and purring again.
Thought I would share my woes and experience for others:
I bought a camshaft kit from TVR Power with a standard TVR51 cam (looked into other upgrade options, but to benefit really need head modifications and/or ECU remap), chain kit, 16 lifters, new gaskets etc. Took me a whole weekend and a morning to get the engine to bits and re-assemble. Started it up and it was beautifily quiet, until the oil warmed up and the tappet noise return, worse than before. I nearly cried!
I ran it to a local specialist and he guessed that I may have fitted a serp front cover gasket to my pre-serp engine hence restricting the oil ways. I had a photo but unfortunately it wasn't clear enough. So that evening I spent 6hrs taking it to bits again.
This time I was looking for reasons why the oil circulation might be poor. I found that 3 of the lifters on cylinders 6&8 (rear of right bank) were not filled with oil, hence the tapping.
I have since learnt that the cam lobes can wear completely round and the tappets will not be noisy, so I was a bit too keen to jump in and change the tappets. Also the tappets are very unlikely to fail aparently. So it was a fundamental oil supply problem.
I took the oil pump apart to check for debris/wear etc. all fine.
I took the sump off to check for crap blocking the pickup-very little
I check the oil pickup strainer - a few bits of silicon, nothing to worry about.
But I did find that the oil pickup pipe to block connection was loose! I.e. the pump will have been sucking in airated oil. I hoped this was the problem and reassembled last night, and turned the key at 2.30am. SUCCESS! ran in the cam at 2000rpm for 15mins as recommended, good for annoying the neightbours! finished putting the final touches back together and got to bed at 4am. But I have a working Tiv again, very pleasing!
So the leasons I learnt
1) Tappet noise is more likely to be an oil supply problem
2) Get the sump off when doing oil changes etc. to check everything is ok.
3) Use Genuine Land Rover gaskets etc. - much better quality, don't require trimming etc.
4) Buy standard RV8 parts from Land rover or decent supplier, not using TVR parts places who will overcharge you becuase its for a TVR.
It turned out that my original cam was worn, so not a complete waste of money, and I actually enjoyed doing the work myself, although it was a daunting task before I started, but I know a lot more about the engine now. I hadn't done much serious engine work on any vehicle before.
There should be some recovered power to be had from my worn cam which I look forward to testing :-)
Cheers,
Pete.
Thought I would share my woes and experience for others:
I bought a camshaft kit from TVR Power with a standard TVR51 cam (looked into other upgrade options, but to benefit really need head modifications and/or ECU remap), chain kit, 16 lifters, new gaskets etc. Took me a whole weekend and a morning to get the engine to bits and re-assemble. Started it up and it was beautifily quiet, until the oil warmed up and the tappet noise return, worse than before. I nearly cried!
I ran it to a local specialist and he guessed that I may have fitted a serp front cover gasket to my pre-serp engine hence restricting the oil ways. I had a photo but unfortunately it wasn't clear enough. So that evening I spent 6hrs taking it to bits again.
This time I was looking for reasons why the oil circulation might be poor. I found that 3 of the lifters on cylinders 6&8 (rear of right bank) were not filled with oil, hence the tapping.
I have since learnt that the cam lobes can wear completely round and the tappets will not be noisy, so I was a bit too keen to jump in and change the tappets. Also the tappets are very unlikely to fail aparently. So it was a fundamental oil supply problem.
I took the oil pump apart to check for debris/wear etc. all fine.
I took the sump off to check for crap blocking the pickup-very little
I check the oil pickup strainer - a few bits of silicon, nothing to worry about.
But I did find that the oil pickup pipe to block connection was loose! I.e. the pump will have been sucking in airated oil. I hoped this was the problem and reassembled last night, and turned the key at 2.30am. SUCCESS! ran in the cam at 2000rpm for 15mins as recommended, good for annoying the neightbours! finished putting the final touches back together and got to bed at 4am. But I have a working Tiv again, very pleasing!
So the leasons I learnt
1) Tappet noise is more likely to be an oil supply problem
2) Get the sump off when doing oil changes etc. to check everything is ok.
3) Use Genuine Land Rover gaskets etc. - much better quality, don't require trimming etc.
4) Buy standard RV8 parts from Land rover or decent supplier, not using TVR parts places who will overcharge you becuase its for a TVR.
It turned out that my original cam was worn, so not a complete waste of money, and I actually enjoyed doing the work myself, although it was a daunting task before I started, but I know a lot more about the engine now. I hadn't done much serious engine work on any vehicle before.
There should be some recovered power to be had from my worn cam which I look forward to testing :-)
Cheers,
Pete.
dogbucket said:
nice one
so in undertaking to do the cam yourself did you find any instructions to follow, or just wing it?
I got hold of a range rover haynes manual halfway through taking it apart which was useful for locating all of the bolts on the front cover etc.so in undertaking to do the cam yourself did you find any instructions to follow, or just wing it?
Taking apart was the easy bit, just remember where all the bolts go etc. I had a number of piles for different parts and split into which side of the car i removed them from. still managed to have a couple of bolts left over at the end though
Edited by Chim_Pete on Friday 9th November 16:01
monstergrowler said:
Glad your back running and thanks for the advice. Did you change the cam in situ?
Yep, just had to remove front cover, tappets&pushrods obviously, exhaust y-section, chassis cross-brace, wiring and pipes... space in front of radiator was just enough to withdraw...Chim_Pete said:
2) Get the sump off when doing oil changes etc. to check everything is ok.
I've given up with sealant sump seals & now just vaseline a cork gasket so it can be removed easily for inspection. A supply of cork gaskets - and don't forget the little pickup gaskets, costs a pittance compared to the tales of woe regarding sump & pickup problems we've heard over the years IMHO. I like looking at my crankshaft anyway - its kind of relaxing 
Driving the car up on ramps (home made wood in my case) makes it quite a trivial job, and it gives you chance to grease/slip all the underside anyway.
Dave
poorpeet said:
Pete, can I just check that you remembered to fill the new tappets with oil before you fitted them?
I have a noisy tappet as well & was going to pull & replace the cam.
Hi Pete,I have a noisy tappet as well & was going to pull & replace the cam.
Yes I pre-filled the new tappets. Mine was definately an oil supply problem. I was subsequently told that the tappets themselves are unlikely to fail, but I suppose they could become noisy if well worn. If you have the time I would suggest whipping the plenum, inlet manifold, valley gasket and rocker covers + assembly off to inspect the cam and lifters. My lifters were in very good condition which did ring a small alarm bell that they perhaps were not the problem, but obviously not a loud enough alarm bell! I was assuming that they might fail internally meaning they didn't retain oil pressure.
Also I could detect which tappets were being noisy by pushing down on the pushrods by hand to see which ones were soft (i.e not full of oil).
Hope this helps,
good luck,
Pete.
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