Saab 9000 aux drivebelt thrown - advice please

[Max Turbo]

Hello all

My 9000 seems to have thrown its aux belt. I was just backing up onto my drive when I heard a clunk, power steering was lost and my battery light came on. I reversed onto my drive, quickly got out and under the bonnet.

Checked the belt and it wasnt running around. It was half off some of the pulleys but wasn't hanging free or completely broken.

Closer inspection has shown that the belt is heavily damaged in at least one place. I have put the belt back onto the pulleys completely but when cranking the engine, the belt still does not turn.

I have come to the conclusion that one of the idler pulleys has seized (a fairly common problem isnt it???). Would this be a sensible conclusion to draw??

Secondly, it is pi55ing it down with rain here, I don't have the bits, or the time to fix it. My local garage is 1 mile away - is there anything I can do to make this car ok to get there without causing long term damage?? Will the car cope for one mile without a water pump running?

Many thanks!!

Max

[stevieturbo]

If one of the pulleys is siezed, then you are pretty screwed.

If you are lucky, it may be an un-important one you could bypass and re-route a shorter belt. But thats highly unlikely.

[That Daddy]

The top serpentine belt idler as a habit of seizing or breaking up and throwing the belt,but check the A/C compressor pulley is free(if A/C fitted) otherwise the bearing as packed up in the A/C clutch housing,either way you need to get it to the garage dont drive it without the w/pump driven you have no coolant circulation and the motor will heat up rapidly while driving

[GreenV8S]

It's a credible explanation, but it would be obvious if you just took a second to spin each pulley by hand while the belt was off.

[Max Turbo]

That Daddy said:

The top serpentine belt idler as a habit of seizing or breaking up and throwing the belt,but check the A/C compressor pulley is free(if A/C fitted) otherwise the bearing as packed up in the A/C clutch housing,either way you need to get it to the garage dont drive it without the w/pump driven you have no coolant circulation and the motor will heat up rapidly while driving

Thanks for the info/advice. Would the lack of coolant circulation be a problem for a 1 mile journey from a cold start ie tomorrow morning? The journey will take approx 3 mins. If this is so, I shall have to work out a way to tow it down there!

When the problem happened, I tried toggling the climate control on and off. This made no difference to the problem. I have just been out to the car and tried to manhandle the belt around the system. The alternator is spinning happily so i dont think its that.

Argh - I frigging hate it when the car breaks, I don't have the garage available and its raining! TOSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Max Turbo]

GreenV8S said:

It's a credible explanation, but it would be obvious if you just took a second to spin each pulley by hand while the belt was off.

For some reason, I hadn't really considered taking the belt off! Time for me to take the "stupid hat" off I think.

Although that would identify the culprit, it would not help in me getting the car back on the road unfortunately. I still need to think of a way to get it to the garage 1 mile away...

Any thoughts ladies and gentlemen?

[GreenV8S]

Having water in but not circulating is a lot better than having a dry engine, because the water absorbs an awful lot of heat as it boils. From dead cold you will probably be OK driving gently for a couple of miles, but the further you go the greater the risk of damaging the engine.

IF you can confirm it's a seized pulley, and IF it's only an idler, then it may be possible to jury rig a shorter belt that bypasses the fault and enables you to run the water pump straight off the crank. Stockings used to be the traditional way to do it, but you can buy temporary belt kits that are basically a bit of tube to be cut to length for the purpose.

But as I said - if it's only a couple of minutes away and starting from cold then personally I'd just drive it.

Edited by GreenV8S on Sunday 28th October 15:20

[Max Turbo]

GreenV8S said:

Having water in but not circulating is a lot better than having a dry engine, because the water absorbs an awful lot of heat as it boils. From dead cold you will probably be OK driving gently for a couple of miles, but the further you go the greater the risk of damaging the engine.

IF you can confirm it's a seized pulley, and IF it's only an idler, then it may be possible to jury rig a shorter belt that bypasses the fault and enables you to run the water pump straight off the crank. Stockings used to be the traditional way to do it, but you can buy temporary belt kits that are basically a bit of tube to be cut to length for the purpose.

But as I said - if it's only a couple of minutes away and starting from cold then personally I'd just drive it.

Edited by GreenV8S on Sunday 28th October 15:20

Thanks for that! That is what I was thinking too, but just wanted to see if there was anything that I hadn't thought of that would make it a 100% completely out of the question you-are-going-to-blow-your-engine situation.

Will call my garage in the morning, let them know to clear the way!

Thanks again

Max

[Max Turbo]

Hmmm very odd

Just went out to remove the belt. Cut it off and noticed two big notches that had been taken out of it by something.

But I span each of the 7 pulleys (except the crank pulley) and they all span fine. Some had a little more friction than others, but none were really bad. I could easily spin all by hand including the a/c motor and the two idler pulleys.

Any thoughts??

[GreenV8S]

How is the belt tensioned? Was it tensioned properly when you tried cranking the engine and it slipped?

[Max Turbo]

The belt is tensioned automatically by a spring loaded idler pulley. When I tried cranking it over, it was all tensioned up properly and, as far as I could see, back on all of the grooved pulleys.

Very odd. Ahh well, hopefully it just needs a new belt. It needed to be replaced soon anyways, so no real harm done I hope!

Thanks!
Max

[That Daddy]

Max Turbo said:

Hmmm very odd

Just went out to remove the belt. Cut it off and noticed two big notches that had been taken out of it by something.

But I span each of the 7 pulleys (except the crank pulley) and they all span fine. Some had a little more friction than others, but none were really bad. I could easily spin all by hand including the a/c motor and the two idler pulleys.

Any thoughts??

Check that top idler again,is it complete?(should not be able to see the metal bearing itself,but is usually all thats left)they have a nasty habit of disintergrating thus eating the belt,reason for this is the idler bearing seizes the belt running over the stationary plastic wheel heats up then breaks into piecesgiving you the exact problem you describe,as Green v8s said check all pulleys turn 1st.

[stevieturbo]

It wouldnt be rare to have a dodgy tensioner...

And of course, how old is the belt ? Is it in good condition, aside from the damage ?
when was it last replaced ?
Is it the correct length for your car ?
Is it a cheap crap belt or a quality item ?

[Max Turbo]

That Daddy said:

Max Turbo said:

Hmmm very odd

Just went out to remove the belt. Cut it off and noticed two big notches that had been taken out of it by something.

But I span each of the 7 pulleys (except the crank pulley) and they all span fine. Some had a little more friction than others, but none were really bad. I could easily spin all by hand including the a/c motor and the two idler pulleys.

Any thoughts??

Check that top idler again,is it complete?(should not be able to see the metal bearing itself,but is usually all thats left)they have a nasty habit of disintergrating thus eating the belt,reason for this is the idler bearing seizes the belt running over the stationary plastic wheel heats up then breaks into piecesgiving you the exact problem you describe,as Green v8s said check all pulleys turn 1st.

Just checked all of the pulleys again and they all appear to be ok, plastic intact etc which I guess is a good sign!

[Max Turbo]

stevieturbo said:

It wouldnt be rare to have a dodgy tensioner...

And of course, how old is the belt ? Is it in good condition, aside from the damage ?
when was it last replaced ?
Is it the correct length for your car ?
Is it a cheap crap belt or a quality item ?

I'm not sure on the state of the tensioner as its a little too stiff for me to move in the confines of the engine bay but ill bear it in mind

The belt happens to be in a sh!t state, before the incident I mean. When I bought the car, it hadnt been serviced for 25k miles so i got it serviced. This belt was highlighted but I just hadnt gotten around to having it done so its my fault entirely.

Not sure if it was a quality item or not but I think it was the correct one, just tres old and exhibiting cracking. But would this cause the belt to stop moving?? The two "cuts" that have been made by something look very similar. The gradual decay of the belt wouldnt have done that, I don't think.

I'm just very confused and will be interested to hear what mr garage man thinks.

Thanks!!
Max

[GreenV8S]

When you fit the replacement belt, it should be tight enough to prevent you from turning any of the other pulleys by hand, and you should only be able to twist it by about 90 degrees on the longest span.

[Max Turbo]

Fantastic! Thanks so much to everyone for their help. Look forward to having the car back on the road tomorrow to complete another day of mundane tasks

Will keep you all posted!

M

[Max Turbo]

Got the car back. Easy fix. The belt just gave way for whatever reason and, after being replaced, everything is brill!

One of the idler pulleys is a little noisy though, so might change that before the whole thing self destructs! Or I could just hope the car lasts the 2 months I am planning on keeping it!

Thanks for all the help!

Max

PS got it to the garage no problem. No overheating problems and still had 11.5V left on the battery when I got there!

[That Daddy]

Max Turbo said:

Got the car back. Easy fix. The belt just gave way for whatever reason and, after being replaced, everything is brill!

One of the idler pulleys is a little noisy though, so might change that before the whole thing self destructs! Or I could just hope the car lasts the 2 months I am planning on keeping it!

Thanks for all the help!

Max

PS got it to the garage no problem. No overheating problems and still had 11.5V left on the battery when I got there!

Careful those idlers fail quicklyi have seen lots of em.

[Boosted LS1]

That Daddy said:

Max Turbo said:

Got the car back. Easy fix. The belt just gave way for whatever reason and, after being replaced, everything is brill!

One of the idler pulleys is a little noisy though, so might change that before the whole thing self destructs! Or I could just hope the car lasts the 2 months I am planning on keeping it!

Thanks for all the help!

Max

PS got it to the garage no problem. No overheating problems and still had 11.5V left on the battery when I got there!

Careful those idlers fail quicklyi have seen lots of em.

Do they make the engine vibrate when on the way out? My 9000 vibrates like the bearings are shot some days, yet is smooth as silk on others and it started doing this all of a sudden for no obvious reason. When it's bad even the wing mirrors are vibrating. I've checked everything but can't find a fault, even the mot tester can't find a fault.