Police have not stamped or signed Page 1 of a NIP

[Openside]

I have received a NIP (it's for my wife; incredible she drives much more sedately than I do). Anyway, it's from the Bristol "Safety" Camera Unit (such f@+*ing hypocrites).

The interesting thing is that at the bottom it states "This notice is issued for and on behalf of the Chief Constable" (I'm sure he's very happy). There is then a blank underline, below it is the comment "Certificate of Posting (FOR SAFETY CAMERA UNIT USE ONLY)". However, there is no stamp or signature in this space. The issuer has left it completely blank.

Below this is a statement , "I hereby certify that I this day served the within named with a document of which this is a true copy, by sending it by first class post/recorded delivery to the address etcetc". There is then a space for a Signature and Date. Again, both of these have been left blank.

OK, I'm not a lawyer but I presume all legal notices have to be completed fully (and a NIP is nothing if not a legal notice). If they have failed to stamp, sign or otherwise validate a document in this way, can I hang about for 28 days (or whatever) then produce this form and argue they have failed to properly issue the NIP? (one minor problem ?; I had filled in the reverse (Page 2) before I noticed this issue)

I want to be careful on this as my wife probably won't want to go along with it; she is the kind to grin and bear it, wheras I will fight any fine/penalty every time on the basis that I win 4 out of every 5 parking metre appeals (on basis their bloody clocks have not been tested since the metre was installed).

All advice/guidance gratefully welcomed.

Openside

[boosted ls1]

My wife's the same. Why are they all like that? They seem to want to see us lose and cough up. They seem to relish it?

[hertsbiker]

boosted ls1 said:

My wife's the same. Why are they all like that? They seem to want to see us lose and cough up. They seem to relish it?

Nope. Mine stands beside me in court & defends me. Cool.

[madcop]

The form is duplicated and self carbonating. There is no point in stamping the original because if you dispute its receipt by losing it, then there will be no evidence that you received it anyway.

The Police are under no obligation to tell you that they have posted the NIP. They are under an obligation to the court to do so if you question the service of it.

The copy will be the endorsed one with the relevant method stamped and signed by the person that has done it. This can then be produced in court if you try to defend the offence by stating that the NIP was never sent. It is attached to the prosecution file and available for examination if you decide to plead not guilty to the offence.

In this case there is no point in completing the original form with the certificate of service and in any case when the person posts the original, it is in the envelope which is a bit difficult to endorse once the flap is licked and stuck down





>> Edited by madcop on Thursday 26th June 15:55

[pdV6]

However, DO check the date of offence and the date of issue of the NIP.

A friend of mine has received 3 NIPs from the Bristol Safety Comedy Scamera teams in recent months, ALL of which were a few days out of the 14 day deadline...

[Openside]

Thanks madcop; that's blown that one. Thanks also pdV6; checked and unfortunately, they have been efficient on both counts. I feel a little hard done by for my wife. She is a competent driver, no accidents in past 10 years, no convictions of any kind and has now been done for doing 41 on a road which NOW has a 30 mph limit but for past 20 years has been a 40 mph zone (A38 dual carriageway! opposite Arriva Toyota, just before Rolls Royce). There is a third level college on the road, admittedly....3 miles away from this Gatso.

Yet another case of a citizen feeling ripped off by the local council. Well, I have emailed my two councillors to inform them that I am voting them out next time around over this issue (no criticism of the police). Don't know if it does any good but if we all let our elected asreh*les (oops, sorry I meant representatives) know what we think about their Orwellian tendancies, maybe the message will finally get home. You cannot criminalise an entire nation, at least not in a democracy (now, that's another story).

thanks for all comments, now off to buy a stamp (cheap skinflints don't even send a reply-paid envelope, what a bunch of pikeys).

cheers,
Openside

(just had a thought; if she picks up the speeding penalties - btw, my licence is currently clean lol then she loses her moral argument against me replacing the MR2 with a nice 993

[C3 GTK]

Openside said:

Thanks madcop; that's blown that one. Thanks also pdV6; checked and unfortunately, they have been efficient on both counts. I feel a little hard done by for my wife. She is a competent driver, no accidents in past 10 years, no convictions of any kind and has now been done for doing 41 on a road which NOW has a 30 mph limit but for past 20 years has been a 40 mph zone (A38 dual carriageway! opposite Arriva Toyota, just before Rolls Royce). There is a third level college on the road, admittedly....3 miles away from this Gatso. Yet another case of a citizen feeling ripped off by the local council. Well, I have emailed my two councillors to inform them that I am voting them out next time around over this issue (no criticism of the police). Don't know if it does any good but if we all let our elected asreh*les (oops, sorry I meant representatives) know what we think about their Orwellian tendancies, maybe the message will finally get home. You cannot criminalise an entire nation, at least not in a democracy (now, that's another story). thanks for all comments, now off to buy a stamp (cheap skinflints don't even send a reply-paid envelope, what a bunch of pikeys). cheers, Openside (just had a thought; if she picks up the speeding penalties - btw, my licence is currently clean lol then she loses her moral argument against me replacing the MR2 with a nice 993

Don't put a stamp on it...let them pay to get it from the sorting office
You are right about the injustice of it all but it will not be for ever whilst we all have a vote
Still get the 993 you won't regret it
Only problem is getting stopped by the BiB all the time for no reason whatsoever I carry my licence and insurance cert all the time now save all those "producers" Still at least it gives the criminals a break

[Openside]

Hi C3,

the 993 is a no brainer; 911 has been a fantasy since childhood so the best looking and last air-cooled is simple fulfilment. I'm a member of the Bristol branch of the Classic Car Club and their ageing 911 Targa (1987) does more for me than the E-Type, 308, Elise, Cobra, Cerbera etc.

Only issue is I will need to use it for business and I do about 20k miles pa. (This does mean that company subsidises usage by about £10k pa) so economical overall. Only thought is whether I should go for an earlier 996, rather than a later 993; expect to get approx. 50,000 miler and put 40,000 miles on it in 2 years (keep it under 100k) before moving on to a newer one (when hopefully I can get someone else to do the running about).

Waddya think? Early 996 or decent varioram 993? Also, I fancy a glass-roofed Targa - anything I should watch out for or any guifdes out there?

cheers,
openside

[C3 GTK]

Openside said:

Hi C3, the 993 is a no brainer; 911 has been a fantasy since childhood so the best looking and last air-cooled is simple fulfilment. I'm a member of the Bristol branch of the Classic Car Club and their ageing 911 Targa (1987) does more for me than the E-Type, 308, Elise, Cobra, Cerbera etc. Only issue is I will need to use it for business and I do about 20k miles pa. (This does mean that company subsidises usage by about £10k pa) so economical overall. Only thought is whether I should go for an earlier 996, rather than a later 993; expect to get approx. 50,000 miler and put 40,000 miles on it in 2 years (keep it under 100k) before moving on to a newer one (when hopefully I can get someone else to do the running about). Waddya think? Early 996 or decent varioram 993? Also, I fancy a glass-roofed Targa - anything I should watch out for or any guifdes out there? cheers, openside

Well I'm biased
But there are plenty of low milage 993's about.
If you are mainly doing motorway work perhaps the 996 is the way to go It's a bit more GT although still a proper sportscar.
There are plenty of buying guides on the web http://p-car.com/ is about the best for the 993.
My advice is drive them both you can't go wrong

[madcop]

pdV6 said:

However, DO check the date of offence and the date of issue of the NIP. A friend of mine has received 3 NIPs from the Bristol Safety Comedy Scamera teams in recent months, ALL of which were a few days out of the 14 day deadline...

You can do this by looking at the date written on the NIP itself, usually top left or right hand corner, can't remember which! If the date is not within 14 days of the offence excluding the date of the offence itself (15 days in all), then look at the post mark on the envelope to see when it went in the post box.

If it was not in the post box within the 15 days including the date of the offence, the NIP is not valid.