Cold start tips needed to prevent flooding!
Discussion
I don’t know whether this is a common problem with the Rover V8 or whether there is something amiss with my car.
When I start my car in the morning I try to move it off the drive carefully and quietly. It always splutters a little for the first 30 seconds or so, but by the time it gets to the end of the road its fine. This is ok except that it is very easy to stall the engine when I reverse it off the drive. If this happens then it’s back into the garage with it because I then cannot for the life of me start the car.
The car mechanically is very good, new coil, leads and plugs but it’s always done this both before and after the rebuild, it just seems to overfuel too much when started which then floods the engine. I left it for half an hour this morning and it still wouldn’t start but when I get home tonight it will be fine. It’s running the TVR recommended plugs (Champion?) and a TVR Power chip.
Any tips for starting the beast in the morning? Does the ecu have a flood clear mode like some? I’m not sure whether giving it a little throttle upon starting would just make the problem worse. All advice gratefully received.
When I start my car in the morning I try to move it off the drive carefully and quietly. It always splutters a little for the first 30 seconds or so, but by the time it gets to the end of the road its fine. This is ok except that it is very easy to stall the engine when I reverse it off the drive. If this happens then it’s back into the garage with it because I then cannot for the life of me start the car.
The car mechanically is very good, new coil, leads and plugs but it’s always done this both before and after the rebuild, it just seems to overfuel too much when started which then floods the engine. I left it for half an hour this morning and it still wouldn’t start but when I get home tonight it will be fine. It’s running the TVR recommended plugs (Champion?) and a TVR Power chip.
Any tips for starting the beast in the morning? Does the ecu have a flood clear mode like some? I’m not sure whether giving it a little throttle upon starting would just make the problem worse. All advice gratefully received.
The origional Range Rover fuel map overfuels when cold, but it just stinks, its not undrivable. I dont know if the TVR fuel map is the same, but the Adams chips certainly reduce the start up fueling. Its also possible your water temperature sensor is giving a wrong reading, as this heavily affects the amount of fuel going in. Also check the DC trim voltage from the airflow meter. On the non catalyst fuel map, this makes a big difference to the point the car will foul its plugs. It does not appear to make so much of a difference on the Catalyst fuel map,(Still checking this one) but its possible it has an effect when the engine is cold, and before the lambda probes come into play. Another possible area is over high fuel pressure, due to a faulty regulator or part blocked / kinked fuel return line. A partly blocked line can cause the fuel pressure to rise on tickover, as the return flow is maximum at this point. More generally during starting the ECU has fixed injector pulses (as in wide-lots of fuel) for the first few seconds, then it reduces the amount of fuel once the engine has started and the airflow meter takes over. The Stepper motor is also held wide open on cranking for maximum air, so it should start. This causes the engine to start at 1500 or so RPM, then drop rapidly. If it does not do this, the stepper is not working or disconnected as suggested and your symptoms fit this exactly. You just might get a flooded engine to clear by holding the throttle open during the first few seconds, before the air flow meter kicks in, but Ive not tried it.
Mark
Mark
I found with mine that if I waited for just a few seconds after startup, I would notice the revs on the tacho increasing, as the ECU backed off the mixture. If I moved before this point a stall and awkward restart was on the cards. After this point, no problems. From what Biltz is saying, I should have had a brief 1500rpm idle, but I never had this. It didn't cause any problems though.
Steve.
Steve.
I have had a similar problem with mine occasionally. The answer when it occurs is to remove either of the silver fuel pump/injection relays (on flying leads on top of the battery in the passenger footwell) and try to start. The engine should fire briefly with residual fuel then stop. Replace the relay and she should start normally. Works like a charm and saves much embarrassment at times! If you are really plagued with the problem you can fit a switch in the earth wire to one of the relays and hide it somewhere convenient - then you don't have to grovel in the footwell and you have a supplementary immobilising system.
Edited by prbw on Tuesday 30th October 13:21
I think that most of them behave like this and doesn't mean that there is anything wrong. I think that the issue is that the cold start programme isn't as good as most modern cars and it can easily bog down and stall if you try to move away too quickly (but only seemed to happen when left overnight or longer).
Process I used to follow was to start the car and hold it with the throttle at about 1200rpm for 15 secs or so while the oil pressure came up to a steady level. Then let it drop down to idle and let it idle on its own for at least 30secs. After this it should be absolutely fine and should not stall/flood.
Process I used to follow was to start the car and hold it with the throttle at about 1200rpm for 15 secs or so while the oil pressure came up to a steady level. Then let it drop down to idle and let it idle on its own for at least 30secs. After this it should be absolutely fine and should not stall/flood.
Thanks all, plenty of useful ideas on here. I knew P'heads would come up trumps.
A few things to check as well which will keep me busy tonight, thanks Blitz. Was really starting to drive me up the wall, especially since I have to push the car back into the garage on my own if it won't start! Grrrr.
A few things to check as well which will keep me busy tonight, thanks Blitz. Was really starting to drive me up the wall, especially since I have to push the car back into the garage on my own if it won't start! Grrrr.
Steve_T said:
From what Biltz is saying, I should have had a brief 1500rpm idle, but I never had this. It didn't cause any problems though.
Steve.
Just a thought on this one. The origional 1992 ECU chip I had fitted definately wound the stepper back on powering the ignition off, ready for a restart. I now have a TVR Chimera chip, that does not buzz the stepper like the old chip now thinking about it. I bet this is down to different firmware revisions as the ECU developed over the years.Steve.
Mark
If it's flooded then you may have knackered the plugs. In theory these can be cleaned, in practice it's a hit and miss affair and you are better off replacing them. Also make sure the battery is fully charged since it's much harder to start the engine if that's running down.
From the sound of it you have either got a weak spark or too much fuel.
From the sound of it you have either got a weak spark or too much fuel.
Al 450 said:
Bugger it, just took every plug out, cleaned and burnt off all the fuel and it spluttered a bit then flooded again! Aaaarrrrggggghhhhhhh...
I had a similar problem when i first brought mine...it kept flooding badly and as greenv8s mentioned it turned out to be poor spark i.e the 2 months old rotor arm was faulty. Worth a punt for a £10.....i know this goes against most peoples advice but i dried the plugs out(blow torch) and re used them.Good luck
If it's mucking you about then get them as hot as possible before you refit them (you'll need to use the plug socket because they should be too hot to hold). Hot plugs are far easier to get a spark out of and the extra heat makes it easier to light the charge too. But it does sound as if there's something else wrong here, not just dirty plugs.
JonathanT said:
Dumb question alert: why is this? I read about pulling out flooded plugs and drying them off in the oven (carefully) but even then they are probably best thrown away.
If they're perfectly clean plugs that have just got petrol on them, you can burn the petrol off over a gas cooker and they'll be none the worse for wear. But what often happens is that the plugs aren't actually clean under the petrol, they've got a layer of deposit on them. The plugs are designed to be self-cleaning but for this to work they have to get hot enough (hence all the attention paid to getting the right grade of plug for each engine). However, the plugs will still get dirty over time. If the plug doesn't get hot enough because of overfuelling or a misfire then this can happen much quicker, you can foul a set of plugs within minutes. In theory, a set of fouled plugs can be cleaned and reused. In practice this is very hit and miss and not worth bothering with unless you know what you're doing and are very keen to save a few quid. Having clean plugs makes it *much* easier to get a good spark so that's the first thing to concentrate on if the engine is playing up / won't start. If the new plugs don't cure it (or only cure it temporarily) you know there's something else wrong too.Edited by GreenV8S on Wednesday 31st October 13:23
Hi, Has youre car got power steering? I've been caught out on some makes of car when cold starting by turning the steering wheel and the power assisted steering cutting in. As I recall the ECU lifts the tickover to compensate for the extra load. This on a car that struggles with the cold can be enough to stall it.
P.S. The only car I know that has a clear flood facility is a Mazda where by holding the throttle fully open then turning the key, the system shuts off the fuel supply.
P.S. The only car I know that has a clear flood facility is a Mazda where by holding the throttle fully open then turning the key, the system shuts off the fuel supply.
Who uses throttle when starting, either when warm or cold.
From cold (in whole my 2 weeks Chim experience) I dont touch the throttle.
When warm I start turning it over and gradually push the throttle a little until it fires up.
I am reading the forum too much, I am even geting paranoid about starting the bl**dy thing now !
What has changed with spark plugs over the years then !
In my old Moggy minor, beetle or capri (pre my endless boring company cars) if you flooded the engine you either just used to wait a bit or turn it over with the throttle on the floor and it would start. You certainly didnt have to throw the plugs away !
From cold (in whole my 2 weeks Chim experience) I dont touch the throttle.
When warm I start turning it over and gradually push the throttle a little until it fires up.
I am reading the forum too much, I am even geting paranoid about starting the bl**dy thing now !
What has changed with spark plugs over the years then !
In my old Moggy minor, beetle or capri (pre my endless boring company cars) if you flooded the engine you either just used to wait a bit or turn it over with the throttle on the floor and it would start. You certainly didnt have to throw the plugs away !
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