Discussion
Boggy said:
I hope the expression on his face doesn't say anything about the car! He looks bored witless! hehe:Mike Kimberley said:
...aimed not so much at the pure Lotus enthusiast as at a 'more lifestyle type of buyer'.
then the article said:
The Eagle is not the much-rumoured replacement for the Esprit - that comes later - but a car to pitch Lotus into a new market area.
Oh, goody... as if they didn't fcuk up badly enough 'pitching Lotus into a new market area' by setting the Europa up against the Cayman, now they want to invest what little money they have left in a 2+2 version? Does anyone want to buy some shares in a well-respected British sportscar company that's not about to go tits-up, honest?
But is it not just another derivative of the Elise based on the same design and chassis with 2 extra seats squished in ? Hardly breaking ground is it , lets see how long we can milk this cow without spending money on development . Mind you judging by the lengh of time they milked the Espirt we've got years to wait for something new .
tricky 100 said:
But is it not just another derivative of the Elise based on the same design and chassis with 2 extra seats squished in ? Hardly breaking ground is it , lets see how long we can milk this cow without spending money on development . Mind you judging by the lengh of time they milked the Espirt we've got years to wait for something new .
From what I know it's based more on the M250 then the EliseBoggy
RichyBoy said:
With this new gtr and the lexus thing coming out, how is the new lotus going to compete.
Oh don't worry about that it will. They've been doing a fair amount of R&D on this car already so it surprises what some people are saying.This thing will fly and they were already more than 65% down the line anyway
Boggy
A few points to remember -
The Europa wasn't a significant, strategic model, it was a way of clearing out the tail end of the VX220 production and picking up development work done for Proton (hence the low production numbers and relatively low profile marketing campaigns).
Lotus never intended the Europa to sell in competitive numbers compared to the TT. They only need to sell a few hundred to cover the development costs, so they only need to pick up a tiny fraction of the TT market. The vast majority of TT owners want an Audi, not a Lotus, which they regard as a weird little brand with questionable reliability and quality (wrong of course, but there you go).
If they had spent the necessary fortune on developing a car with a bespoke head unit and all the things the average TT owner expects, they would then have been utterly dependent on persuading thousands of people to buy a unheard of Lotus instead of a well established 'safe' TT. The Europa has never been a strategic model for Lotus - get over it and appreciate it for what it is.
According to the press reports, the Eagle is anything but 'yet another Elise derivative'. It's based on the same chassis technology as the upcoming Esprit and an entirely new engine for Lotus. This time, Lotus really are putting everything behind addressing a new market niche. It's also a niche they have previously had some success in, with the Excel being well regarded amongst those that care.
And as far as competing with a Lexus - you could argue that the Elise stood no chance against the MGF, or the MR2, both of which were much better equipped and sold by larger companies with better brand recognition and reputation than Lotus.
The Europa wasn't a significant, strategic model, it was a way of clearing out the tail end of the VX220 production and picking up development work done for Proton (hence the low production numbers and relatively low profile marketing campaigns).
Lotus never intended the Europa to sell in competitive numbers compared to the TT. They only need to sell a few hundred to cover the development costs, so they only need to pick up a tiny fraction of the TT market. The vast majority of TT owners want an Audi, not a Lotus, which they regard as a weird little brand with questionable reliability and quality (wrong of course, but there you go).
If they had spent the necessary fortune on developing a car with a bespoke head unit and all the things the average TT owner expects, they would then have been utterly dependent on persuading thousands of people to buy a unheard of Lotus instead of a well established 'safe' TT. The Europa has never been a strategic model for Lotus - get over it and appreciate it for what it is.
According to the press reports, the Eagle is anything but 'yet another Elise derivative'. It's based on the same chassis technology as the upcoming Esprit and an entirely new engine for Lotus. This time, Lotus really are putting everything behind addressing a new market niche. It's also a niche they have previously had some success in, with the Excel being well regarded amongst those that care.
And as far as competing with a Lexus - you could argue that the Elise stood no chance against the MGF, or the MR2, both of which were much better equipped and sold by larger companies with better brand recognition and reputation than Lotus.
Tuna said:
A few points to remember -
And as far as competing with a Lexus - you could argue that the Elise stood no chance against the MGF, or the MR2, both of which were much better equipped and sold by larger companies with better brand recognition and reputation than Lotus.
I hope the model is a huge success for Lotus , bringing untold riches to the company .And as far as competing with a Lexus - you could argue that the Elise stood no chance against the MGF, or the MR2, both of which were much better equipped and sold by larger companies with better brand recognition and reputation than Lotus.
I see approx 150 MGF'S and another 150 MR2's for every Lotus i see on the roads , therefore i would say the Elise never was a success compared to these models although i would NEVER buy an MGF or MR2 .
tricky 100 said:
I hope the model is a huge success for Lotus , bringing untold riches to the company .
I see approx 150 MGF'S and another 150 MR2's for every Lotus i see on the roads , therefore i would say the Elise never was a success compared to these models although i would NEVER buy an MGF or MR2 .
That's a silly argument. I've seen one Ferrari on the roads in our town in the last year. Does that make it unsuccessful? I see approx 150 MGF'S and another 150 MR2's for every Lotus i see on the roads , therefore i would say the Elise never was a success compared to these models although i would NEVER buy an MGF or MR2 .
You cannot make a mass market car like the MFG or MR2 and keep it true to the philosophy of a genuine sports car. The Elise was hugely successful and profitable for Lotus and redefined what people expected from a sports car. Compare the Mark 2 MR2 to the Mark 3, which was a direct response to the success of the Elise.
They fubar'd the Europa massively, and they know it. Kimberley knows that the Eagle MUST be a winner, or the whole plan goes down the toilet. I can't see them getting it wrong to be honest.
The big step-up is going to have to be in quality of fit and finish, and in the service provided by the dealer network.
They are really attempting to play with the big boys with this one - get it right and the Esprit will be a walk in the park, get it wrong and the brand's a gonner.
Fingers-crossed!
The big step-up is going to have to be in quality of fit and finish, and in the service provided by the dealer network.
They are really attempting to play with the big boys with this one - get it right and the Esprit will be a walk in the park, get it wrong and the brand's a gonner.
Fingers-crossed!
Promised Land said:
lotus 4 seaters in the past havent been that good and lost their value like a lead balloon.
id say more importantly is the esprit launch, starting at £80k though its R8 territory and not far short of gallardo and 430 money so it needs to be a top car all round. far more important car for lotus than the eagle IMO
It looks to an outsider like the Eagle is the test bed for the new chassis technology that will go into the Esprit. The Esprit will be make or break for the Lotus brand in terms of public perception of what they're about. The Eagle though will be financially very important as they appear to be putting a full development budget into it, and will need to recoup that to get as far as producing the Esprit. The financial troubles from introducing the Series II Elise and VX220 nearly killed the company and certainly killed the M250 project.id say more importantly is the esprit launch, starting at £80k though its R8 territory and not far short of gallardo and 430 money so it needs to be a top car all round. far more important car for lotus than the eagle IMO
I'm interested in what you mean about the 4 seaters not being that good? I've just bought an Excel and it's a cracking car - though if you are expecting an Elise, you'll be disappointed. It's got the reputation of being the most reliable car Lotus have produced, but I don't think it sold in very big numbers - why was that?
Sometimes I wonder if Lotus' real problem is that people expect something different from them? Americans want the Elise to be more comfortable, Brits want it cheaper, everyone wants build quality like an Audi, but a car that weighs half as much... can Lotus produce a four seater that offers something different from a Mondeo without disappointing punters that it's not a Lambo?
Promised Land said:
lotus 4 seaters in the past havent been that good and lost their value like a lead balloon.
Which is probably why it's coming out as a 2 seater initially, and if that sells then they'll have the option to expand it. If, as is rumoured, it will be very similar to the M250, I'm sure it will be a good seller. What they must do is make sure that it's sufficiently different inside from an Elise/Exige to warrant the "GT" tag that it'll carry. The V6 should be good for various states of tune, and given that supercharging seems very much their thing at the moment, I'd suspect we'll see a blower on it in one guise or another. 'Eagle' S, 'Eagle' R & 'Eagle' SR or GT-S/R stylee.
I'm hopeful.
Promised Land said:
id say more importantly is the esprit launch, starting at £80k though its R8 territory and not far short of gallardo and 430 money so it needs to be a top car all round. far more important car for lotus than the eagle IMO
I agree that the Esprit will be very important, and I fully expect to see a BMW, Audi or Merc V8 engine in there (possibly supercharged). However, they simply will not be able to launch it unless the 'Eagle' is a success. If that flops no-one will take them seriously, and I imagine the development budget has been considerable (in comparison to previous Loti), in order to make sure it can be sold in all the key markets, without too much differentiation needed on the production line.I disagree on the statement "far more important" than the 'Eagle' though. If the latter is a success they will be tapping into a very considerable market segment, the Esprit will not need to be a top car. It will need to be nothing short of exceptional to compete with the R8, Ferrari , Lambo and the top-end 911's.
Esprit said:
Whatever happens, I hope to GOD it's not released with the name "Eagle" doesn't fit with Lotus's image TBH, needs something more exotic... although they're pitching it to the yank market so "Eagle" may just be an e-word equivalent of "lowest common denominator"
Totally agree....makes me cringe every time I hear it. Promised Land said:
lotus 4 seaters in the past havent been that good and lost their value like a lead balloon.
id say more importantly is the esprit launch, starting at £80k though its R8 territory and not far short of gallardo and 430 money so it needs to be a top car all round. far more important car for lotus than the eagle IMO
Coff splutter... Lotus carlton? id say more importantly is the esprit launch, starting at £80k though its R8 territory and not far short of gallardo and 430 money so it needs to be a top car all round. far more important car for lotus than the eagle IMO
From the views of the Esprit, the R8 is not going to be a worry. To be honest, the R8 is a very capable vehicle and is the darling of the motoring press but by the time the Esprit comes out it will be old news and the GTR will be owning the headlines. I find the styling of the R8 to be a little "ordinary". Parked in a row of TT's you have to look twice to see the R8. That is the first rule of super cars - they do not blend in. Porkers also have the same problem.
I am going to be critical of Lotus it is to say "GET A BL00DY MOVE ON" The new esprit has been touted for 3 years and release dates have circled the 'net every 6 months or so. I am just hoping that the concept has kept up with the times.
Things move fast around here...
fatboy111 said:
Esprit said:
Whatever happens, I hope to GOD it's not released with the name "Eagle" doesn't fit with Lotus's image TBH, needs something more exotic... although they're pitching it to the yank market so "Eagle" may just be an e-word equivalent of "lowest common denominator"
Totally agree....makes me cringe every time I hear it. S Works said:
Promised Land said:
lotus 4 seaters in the past havent been that good and lost their value like a lead balloon.
Which is probably why it's coming out as a 2 seater initially, and if that sells then they'll have the option to expand it. If, as is rumoured, it will be very similar to the M250, I'm sure it will be a good seller.The latest eye witness reports suggest something that looks more like the 308 GT4, so I'd be interested to see how it manages both that and to look like an M250.
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