Discussion
There is one produced in the States mate... called a "moroso" oil pan. H111 had them on their website earlier in the year (but didn't have any in stock IIRC) but the things are rare as hen's teeth in this country. A guy on tried to organise a group buy with Exiges.com/SELOC but I believe it fell through.
Got your call about ten minutes ago by the way... lasted one minute 43 seconds!
Got your call about ten minutes ago by the way... lasted one minute 43 seconds!
They work completely differently.
You could take the view that lotus fitting accusump to track biased supercharged cars means its the best. They also suggest it as an upgrade to a regularly tracked car.
However, you can buy a 2nd hand engine for cheaper than the last time i got a price on supply and fit of an accusump.
Personally Im yet to be convinced there is a definite problem for which there is a definite solution. And with the lotus recommendation coming in at roughly the price of a 2nd hand engine, should the worst happen then I will be spending my saved money on the 2nd hand engine.
HTH?!
You could take the view that lotus fitting accusump to track biased supercharged cars means its the best. They also suggest it as an upgrade to a regularly tracked car.
However, you can buy a 2nd hand engine for cheaper than the last time i got a price on supply and fit of an accusump.
Personally Im yet to be convinced there is a definite problem for which there is a definite solution. And with the lotus recommendation coming in at roughly the price of a 2nd hand engine, should the worst happen then I will be spending my saved money on the 2nd hand engine.
HTH?!
SimonK said:
They work completely differently.
You could take the view that lotus fitting accusump to track biased supercharged cars means its the best. They also suggest it as an upgrade to a regularly tracked car.
However, you can buy a 2nd hand engine for cheaper than the last time i got a price on supply and fit of an accusump.
Personally Im yet to be convinced there is a definite problem for which there is a definite solution. And with the lotus recommendation coming in at roughly the price of a 2nd hand engine, should the worst happen then I will be spending my saved money on the 2nd hand engine.
HTH?!
Oh there is a problem. Not speculation or hearsay. You could take the view that lotus fitting accusump to track biased supercharged cars means its the best. They also suggest it as an upgrade to a regularly tracked car.
However, you can buy a 2nd hand engine for cheaper than the last time i got a price on supply and fit of an accusump.
Personally Im yet to be convinced there is a definite problem for which there is a definite solution. And with the lotus recommendation coming in at roughly the price of a 2nd hand engine, should the worst happen then I will be spending my saved money on the 2nd hand engine.
HTH?!
Gooby said:
Oh there is a problem. Not speculation or hearsay.
And what is this problem?As far as im aware, in the context of our cars, an accusump or baffled sump is designed to protect against oil surge when cornering hard for extended periods of time on semi slick tyres, ie on track.
Having done 60 odd trackdays in 40k miles, nearly all of them on semi slicks, my engine is going just fine. Obviously a negative cannot be proved, but that suggests to me that there is not a definite problem that affects all cars/engines.
The only occasions ive heard of the engines completely letting go is when it has later been suggested buzzing and/or lack of oil was involved.
I have heard of some early cars (including the silverstone ones) suffering from cam wear which was put down to oil surge. I am also aware of one early car that suffered this despite never going on track. So again, personally im not convinced enough to spend more money than a set of replacement cams to protect against this.
Gooby said:
I am not going to go into any detail but it has been demonstrated that full oil starvation does not have to take place. Cavitation of the oil will cause a catastrophic failure. This is with oil well within dipstick limits. Not track circumstances.
Without the detail is obviously difficult to comment, but is an accusump or baffled sump going to help stop that happening? And if only an accusump will stop it happening, then how does the price compare with a 2nd hand engine these days?SimonK said:
Gooby said:
I am not going to go into any detail but it has been demonstrated that full oil starvation does not have to take place. Cavitation of the oil will cause a catastrophic failure. This is with oil well within dipstick limits. Not track circumstances.
Without the detail is obviously difficult to comment, but is an accusump or baffled sump going to help stop that happening? And if only an accusump will stop it happening, then how does the price compare with a 2nd hand engine these days?Lotus sport use an accusump system which would make me believe that is the preferable system BUT I do like having a boot and not a storage container for an accusump. It also must weigh quite a lot. The baffled sump adds 1L capacity to the oil and therefore (I believe) it is lighter.
2nd hand engines are definitely not rocking horse poo these days. I know of 2 that have gone through my local garage this year. And i know someone who bought one to upgrade his mr2 a couple of months ago and had a choice of several.
Break even points are going to depend on your hourly labour rate as much as anything I suppose. Maybe there are some benefits to living in the frozen wastelands after all
Im not bothering with the prevention for oil surge as I believe it will cost me at the very least 50% of the cost of supply and installation of a 2nd hand engine. And i dont believe there is a 50% chance of my engine completely letting go due to oil surge.
As for cavitation, ive not heard of it before, and dont mind admitting i had to look up what the word meant. Having done that, im not sure if a baffled sump or accusump would help. Depends what you think is causing the cavitation i suppose? So back to your original question as to which is best for you I guess someone more technical is required....
Break even points are going to depend on your hourly labour rate as much as anything I suppose. Maybe there are some benefits to living in the frozen wastelands after all
Im not bothering with the prevention for oil surge as I believe it will cost me at the very least 50% of the cost of supply and installation of a 2nd hand engine. And i dont believe there is a 50% chance of my engine completely letting go due to oil surge.
As for cavitation, ive not heard of it before, and dont mind admitting i had to look up what the word meant. Having done that, im not sure if a baffled sump or accusump would help. Depends what you think is causing the cavitation i suppose? So back to your original question as to which is best for you I guess someone more technical is required....
Gooby said:
Lotus sport use an accusump system which would make me believe that is the preferable system BUT I do like having a boot and not a storage container for an accusump. It also must weigh quite a lot. The baffled sump adds 1L capacity to the oil and therefore (I believe) it is lighter.
LOL!Lotus only went that route cause it's cheap and easy (for them)
Baffled sump is the first port of call, if well designed, should be all you need, Accusumps are a bodge for when a baffled wet sump can't be made to work, and you don't want the expence of a dry sump.
And yes, aerated oil is as much of a problem as oil starvation.
A bit of googling and I found this PowerPoint which seems to explain it reasonably simply...
http://www.engin.umd.umich.edu/hpceep/tech_day/dow...
I'm not from an engineering background, so is there someone who is who can advise if that's applicable here?
http://www.engin.umd.umich.edu/hpceep/tech_day/dow...
I'm not from an engineering background, so is there someone who is who can advise if that's applicable here?
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