How do u get someone else to take your points?
Discussion
Hi there,
I heard that it was possible to pass the buck for your own (obviously irresponsible) speeding - by finding someone who needs the cash you bribe them with - and isn't bothered about having a few points on their licence (eg becasue they don't have their own car).
Don't they have to be a named driver on your insurance policy beforehand ? - Or what is the loophole / or similar to get round it?
Many thanks for any pointers...
I heard that it was possible to pass the buck for your own (obviously irresponsible) speeding - by finding someone who needs the cash you bribe them with - and isn't bothered about having a few points on their licence (eg becasue they don't have their own car).
Don't they have to be a named driver on your insurance policy beforehand ? - Or what is the loophole / or similar to get round it?
Many thanks for any pointers...
joelk said:
Hi there,
I heard that it was possible to pass the buck for your own (obviously irresponsible) speeding - by finding someone who needs the cash you bribe them with - and isn't bothered about having a few points on their licence (eg becasue they don't have their own car).
Don't they have to be a named driver on your insurance policy beforehand ? - Or what is the loophole / or similar to get round it?
Many thanks for any pointers...
I know two people who have done this within immediate families. Although the people *were* insured no checks were made so I guess you don't need to worry.
I have heard that in some companies where the sales engineers, project engineers and such like are starting to amass points, the going rate for taking someone's 3 points is around £500 to £1000. It's worth it if it means you keep your job. On the insurance issue, remember, most people are insured on their own policy to drive cars not owned by them or hired to them under an HP agreement, so there's no problem there. As the scameras increase there is no doubt that this will happen more and more, especially within families where the main wage earner needs to keep his licence and the wife takes the points. My wife and I take the view that we have 18 points between us before one of us risks a ban. Since all the gov't want is the money, they won't bother to make any checks as this erodes the £60 a time profit.
As an aside, and perhaps Madcop can answer this, what happens if I get a NIP and return it giving my wife as the driver. She then gets a NIP and names me as the driver. Neither of us sign the NIP's. I then say the reason I have not signed it is because I am not absolutely sure who was driving, but I believe, to the best of my knowledge that it was my wife. She says she has not signed it as she is not absolutely sure it was me, but believes it probably was, so she can't sign it as an absolute fact. For either of us to do so would risk making becoming a false confession.
Where do they go with that?
Maybe a simple answer is to register a limited company for £100, get as director and company secretary someone who does not drive, register all your cars with the limited company as owner/keeper at an accommodation address. Then return all NIP's stating driver not known. They will fine the company and, possible, put points on the Director's/Company Secretary's non-existant licence. Perfect result. Any flaws in this?
As an aside, and perhaps Madcop can answer this, what happens if I get a NIP and return it giving my wife as the driver. She then gets a NIP and names me as the driver. Neither of us sign the NIP's. I then say the reason I have not signed it is because I am not absolutely sure who was driving, but I believe, to the best of my knowledge that it was my wife. She says she has not signed it as she is not absolutely sure it was me, but believes it probably was, so she can't sign it as an absolute fact. For either of us to do so would risk making becoming a false confession.
Where do they go with that?
Maybe a simple answer is to register a limited company for £100, get as director and company secretary someone who does not drive, register all your cars with the limited company as owner/keeper at an accommodation address. Then return all NIP's stating driver not known. They will fine the company and, possible, put points on the Director's/Company Secretary's non-existant licence. Perfect result. Any flaws in this?
Cooperman said:
what happens if I get a NIP and return it giving my wife as the driver. She then gets a NIP and names me as the driver. Neither of us sign the NIP's. I then say the reason I have not signed it is because I am not absolutely sure who was driving, but I believe, to the best of my knowledge that it was my wife. She says she has not signed it as she is not absolutely sure it was me, but believes it probably was, so she can't sign it as an absolute fact. For either of us to do so would risk making becoming a false confession.
Where do they go with that?
Thet prosecute the registered keeper for failure to identify.
toad_oftoadhall said:
what happens if I get a NIP and return it giving my wife as the driver. She then gets a NIP and names me as the driver. Neither of us sign the NIP's. I then say the reason I have not signed it is because I am not absolutely sure who was driving, but I believe, to the best of my knowledge that it was my wife. She says she has not signed it as she is not absolutely sure it was me, but believes it probably was, so she can't sign it as an absolute fact. For either of us to do so would risk making becoming a false confession.
Where do they go with that?
Thet prosecute the registered keeper for failure to identify.
How is telling them that your wife was driving 'failure to identify'?
But surely you can name the person you believe was driving and they have the right to plead 'not guilty'. This does not change the fact that you have provided the name of the person you reasonably believe was driving. Bear in mind that if you have not signed the NIP they cannot use this as evidence against her, or indeed her against me.
Cooperman said:
But surely you can name the person you believe was driving and they have the right to plead 'not guilty'. This does not change the fact that you have provided the name of the person you reasonably believe was driving. Bear in mind that if you have not signed the NIP they cannot use this as evidence against her, or indeed her against me.
You have to specify the name of the driver, someone you think probably is the driver.
Hi,
I've heard credible anecdotes of people being jailed for trying to pass their points to somneone else (I recall one story re company rep with 9 points whose wife said she was driving, in order to save hislicence/job. Trouble was she was found out (can't remember how - may not have had a driving licence or was in hospital or something obvious). They were both charged with the criminal offence of attempting to pervert the course of justice - which is regarded as a hell of a serious crime. He was held mainly responsible and was jailed (and of course picked up his driving ban + fine, and lost his job). In addition she was also heavily fined for her involvement. Would seriously recommend against this route - take a short ban on the chin if needs be. If currently totting up the points then buy a GPS detector or slow down for 6 months or so.
Re identifying wife as a driver and vice versa; I know a friend (Ian from Dorset) who did this genuinely. His company failed to respond promptly (admin cockup) to a NIP which meant that the car was not identified as his co. car until about 3 months after the offence. (not time barred as delay was on part of the company rather than police). The thing was the offence had happened in early evening when either he or his wife might have been driving, and was in their local neighbourhood. Because of the 3 month delay, neither he or his wife could recall who was driving. There was lots of hassle and the company were not happy (even though their fault) but ultimately the prosecution was dropped. However this is rare; again, if u try this approach and are found out, you may face a serious criminal charge instead of a minor speeding penalty.
cheers,
Openside
I've heard credible anecdotes of people being jailed for trying to pass their points to somneone else (I recall one story re company rep with 9 points whose wife said she was driving, in order to save hislicence/job. Trouble was she was found out (can't remember how - may not have had a driving licence or was in hospital or something obvious). They were both charged with the criminal offence of attempting to pervert the course of justice - which is regarded as a hell of a serious crime. He was held mainly responsible and was jailed (and of course picked up his driving ban + fine, and lost his job). In addition she was also heavily fined for her involvement. Would seriously recommend against this route - take a short ban on the chin if needs be. If currently totting up the points then buy a GPS detector or slow down for 6 months or so.
Re identifying wife as a driver and vice versa; I know a friend (Ian from Dorset) who did this genuinely. His company failed to respond promptly (admin cockup) to a NIP which meant that the car was not identified as his co. car until about 3 months after the offence. (not time barred as delay was on part of the company rather than police). The thing was the offence had happened in early evening when either he or his wife might have been driving, and was in their local neighbourhood. Because of the 3 month delay, neither he or his wife could recall who was driving. There was lots of hassle and the company were not happy (even though their fault) but ultimately the prosecution was dropped. However this is rare; again, if u try this approach and are found out, you may face a serious criminal charge instead of a minor speeding penalty.
cheers,
Openside
openside said:
Hi,
Would seriously recommend against this route - take a short ban on the chin if needs be.
If a short ban means unemployment then it's worth risking prison.
What a great country. Take a guy with a career, put him on the street for speeding. Insane.
The country make 240 quid, then pay out dole money for the rest of his life.
How much tax revenue is going to be lost?
"What a great country. Take a guy with a career, put him on the street for speeding. Insane.
The country make 240 quid, then pay out dole money for the rest of his life.
How much tax revenue is going to be lost?"[/quote
Most companies will be sympathetic to an employee who has a short ban (up to maybe 6 months) provided the person is competent and does not have a history. In other words, you are only likely to get canned if you are crap at your job or a serial offender. In any event courts will give serious consideration to a person's job security before imposing a ban.
I have twice had guys working for me banned. One for 3 months = I relocated him to London for the period and he used the tube to get around. He kept his job and all of us were happy. Another guy got banned for 3 years after being stopped with twice the alcohol limit - he then took a swing at the arresting office, hence the severity of the ban. Could not keep his job for 3 years and no permanent desk job alternative. However, I kept him on for a couple of months until he found himself a new office-based job.
As for 'dole for life'; come on, a driving ban is a bit of a black mark but it's not going to put you out of contention for the rest of your career.
cheers,
openside
openside said:
In any event courts will give serious consideration to a person's job security before imposing a ban.
Know a bloke who was banned. His solicitor said he'd lose his job as a gardener.
Maj simply said "Ok, will give him longer to pay the fine."
[quote]
As for 'dole for life'; come on, a driving ban is a bit of a black mark but it's not going to put you out of contention for the rest of your career.[/quote]
During 6 months of unemployment you will lose all of ryour up to date skills. I'd have though it would do no good at all.
Anyway the tax revenue lost over the 6 months far outweighs the 240 quid fines collected.
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